Frankenstein

[speedyp]

Hi
Just taken my first steps to upgrading my son's old PC (compaq presario).

It died, so I've just ordered a new Asus motherboard P5KPL-AM and a second hand processor - Pentium D915.

Never done anything more than replace a power supply or add memory on a PC before, so I'm expecting trouble when everything arrives...

Cheers

[glc]

Sorry, not going to work. You essentially can't put a generic aftermarket motherboard in a Compaq.

That processor is not a wise choice.

[David M]

Give us a budget and an idea of how the computer is going to be used and we can help you build your own from scratch.

[speedyp]

Oh No! Haven't even received the bits yet & I'm in trouble

Will the board not physically fit the old Compaq tower case??
http://www.mynewcheap.co.uk/products...media-pc/1363/

Or is it more a power supply issue??

No real budget as such. Not trying to build a "super PC" here, just trying to cobble together a decent working system for not much money... ie. cheaper (and better) than buying a second hand desktop.

My basic board spec was:
PCIe which could take a graphics card at some point
Onboard VGA
DDR2 compatible

Processor:
Something more modern (quicker?) than the existing P4 2.66GHz!
The D915 looked OK with dual core & a decent cache size for £25 on Ebay......

Suggestions much appreciated before I embarrass myself further
Cheers

[Nikon]

prebuilt computer cases are usually designed to hold one specific motherboard, which is usually propriotory, and thus other motherboards require drilling of holes for standoffs, this is why we generally say it just wont work.

what kind of parts do you have that you can/want to reuse, such as ram/power supply/optical drive/etc.

[speedyp]

Originally Posted by Nikon prebuilt computer cases are usually designed to hold one specific motherboard, which is usually propriotory, and thus other motherboards require drilling of holes for standoffs, this is why we generally say it just wont work. what kind of parts do you have that you can/want to reuse, such as ram/power supply/optical drive/etc.

Thanks. Sounds like I might have to drill a few holes if it fits in the case then...

Hoping to re-use the existing hard drive (IDE) as it has all his software etc on it & the old DVD drive. Don't think the original 1GB ram is enough or will fit the new mobo though.

Spent all day googling yesterday, trying to figure out what I might need, but just confused myself in the end. Even bought a stupid graphics card (Nvidia 8800GTX) without realising that it requires 2 PCIe power supplies - DOH!

Plan now is to try and get the board fitted and talking to the processor. Then I'll either upgrade the power supply and fit the graphics card, or just get rid of it.

Thanks

[David M]

I don't understand why you want to hold onto the old Compaq case. You can get an inexpensive yet really good ATX case for cheap and you will not have to modify anything nor worry about your modifications functioning.

Its also a matter of getting an ATX power supply to fit inside the Compaq case. Its probably not worth having to do that modification either....unless you want to spend a lot of time with a Dremel, doing precision drilling, fabricating an adapter plate and working with a very small metal tap. Its probably not worth the $50 (or the equivalent Quid) you might save by not purchasing an ATX case. The metal working tools alone will cost you more than $50 if you don't already have them.

One gig of RAM is definitely not enough. For Win7 64, four gigs is what you want. Chances are your old RAM is plain Jane DDR, not DDR2 or DDR3.

Unless you already have the 8800 GTX, I would definitely purchase a current generation graphics card because you get more graphics processing power for the money plus DX 11 capability and/or an HDMI port if you want that.

[speedyp]

Thanks David.

This all started because the original PC died. Thought I'd just get a replacement mother board, but couldn't find one. Which then led to a different board & processor etc. Guess it's now got out of hand!

Buying everything on Ebay, the graphics card actually cost more than the board & processor put together. Think I should maybe sell it on & put the money towards a new case / Power supply and more DDR2?

[David M]

Its pretty common for a high end graphics card to cost more than the board and CPU.

Yes, it gets to the point with computers that you can only do so much to improve them, especially with name brand computers. Then you get to the point where its no longer cost effective to improve it or its simply impossible to improve it. And then at that point you are talking about replacing the entire computer.

Its really not a good idea to try to force last generation technology to work with new generation technology. In some cases it can work but rarely is it optimal or cost effective.

Why don't you let the people here design you a new computer from scratch and sell your old parts? To me that seems like the most cost effective way of getting the computer you need.

As I said before, all we need is a budget and to know how you plan on using the computer.

[speedyp]

Originally Posted by David M Why don't you let the people here design you a new computer from scratch and sell your old parts? To me that seems like the most cost effective way of getting the computer you need. As I said before, all we need is a budget and to know how you plan on using the computer.

Cool idea - hope you like a challenge

Spec:
Something better / quicker than the old Compaq Presario S5290 (Pent 4 / 2.6GHz with Radeon 9200 graphics card)

Main use:
For our 14yr old son. Homework, plus he plays games like Doom, Garry's Mod? & is also showing an interest in computer animation...
Sound not too important.

Budget:
@ $160!

Timing:
Need something up & running for his birthday (mid August)

[Kidd]

David is right on several marks, but I had a slightly different experience recently about the board's mounting holes. I took out the old mobo, measured it, and it was physically the same dimensions as a microATX board. The new board mounted perfectly.

David- Is HP that much different than compaq, or is it entirely dependent on the specific model from those companies?

Because I did something similar recently, let me share my experience. Assuming compaq is comparable to HP, here are the problems:
1. Upgrading to a new Mobo, CPU and video card will probably require more power than the previous P4 rig. It's really important that you have a reliable power supply, anyways, so going for a new one is a good idea. My Antec 380 fit, but very tightly.
2. You should be physically measuring the previous components and checking the specs on new components to make sure they are the same size, because compaq doesn't have to use the industry-standard anything, so replacement parts won't necessarily fit.
3. Proprietary. That word describes how big companies keep you from customizing their box. Power supplies may not use a standard 20 or 24 pin connector. The motherboard doesn't have to be a standard ATX size, it can be whatever they want it to be. On my HP, the front panel connectors used a 18 pin connector, which wouldn't connect to my new motherboard. I had to pull LEDs and a power switch from another case to get it to work.

You'll run into more snags along the way, some serious, some not. If you like a challenge, go for it, but there is no manual for shoe-horning new parts into an old compaq case.

To the real gurus on here: Did I miss anything, or am I wrong on any of the above points?

For your budget, did you convert £ to $? $160 isn't going to go very far for a reasonable build.

[glc]

$160 is going nowhere. By trying to reuse parts from that old Compaq, you are getting into Frankenstein territory. You really need to come up with $500 to do this right. Ebay is the wrong place to be looking for parts.

The other option is buy something out of the Dell refurb outlet.

http://www1.euro.dell.com/uk/en/dfo/...refid=df&s=dfo

Prices start at around 200 UK pounds plus VAT and delivery.

[speedyp]

Well, thanks for all the advice folks. I know it sounds crazy to you, but I'm used to making do wherever possible.

Kidd, that sounds encouraging. Think I'll keep going and see if I can get something working, out of curiosity more than anything else. I've now spent £100 in bits on this project, but I'll probably trade the graphics card for a better power supply & a bit of memory.

I'll let you know how it turns out.

Cheers
Mark
PS - I always thought Frankenstein was cool

[speedyp]

Trying to build a working PC out of leftovers from a Compaq Presario, and second hand bits from Ebay on a shoestring....

Mobo (Asus P5KPL-AM) arrived from Ebay this morning
On close inspection, it looks as if one of the cpu skt pins is bent, so it's going to have to go back

The good news is that it looks like it will fit the old Presario case with a new backplate. I'll just have to add a couple of pcb standoffs as the 2 fixings in the middle of the board don't line up, but no big deal.

Cheers

[David M]

If worse comes to worse, I have bent AMD processor pins back into place using a razor blade. You put the razor between the rows and carefully pry the bent ones straight. Its not that hard to bend them back into corn rows. The pins will never be exact again, but with a little work close enough to get them in the socket. Of course if one breaks off the processor is toast.

Good luck resurrecting Frankenstein.

[speedyp]

Thanks David, but not sure my vision / dexterity is up to repair.

Slight change of plan. Getting my money back on the mobo & now looking at the P5KPL-AM EPU from Amazon Uk for £36 instead. Also considering a different cpu to suit.. something a bit more modern than the D915 ... maybe an E5400.

[glc]

Before you assume you can reuse the Compaq case, look at what it uses for front panel connectors........

Have you ordered DDR2 ram yet? Your old DDR1 will not work.

Threads merged.

[speedyp]

Thanks GLC

Yeah, checked the power button & LEd connections, looked like it made sense. Also IDE for old hard drive. No memory ordered yet.

Now that the mobo's going back, I'm having another think. Amazon UK seem to have a reasonable selection of bundles for my budget, and it's all brand new too! If you could have a quick look & steer me towards the best bang for the tiny (£120) buck I'd really appreciate it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&k...l_3nigc1ur32_b

Cheers
Mark

[glc]

How about you look at some other vendors - such as dabs.com, ebuyer.com, and scan.co.uk?

You do realize that the Compaq power supply is not going to be able to power a new motherboard? The ATX specification has changed since the Compaq was built, requiring a 24 pin main connector and a 4 or 8 pin aux. I hate to keep knocking you down, but there is just too big a technology gap here to be able to do what you want to do with so little money. You might as well just look around for a used computer that works.

The Compaq Windows preload isn't even going to work with a new motherboard.

[strollin]

Originally Posted by glc ... The Compaq Windows preload isn't even going to work with a new motherboard.

This is an important point, you can't expect the current HDD to work reliably (if at all) as-is with the new motherboard. You really should plan on reformatting the drive and doing a clean OS install, then re-install all of the applications.

I've built lots of Frankenstein machines over the years so I know it can be done but as glc says, your budget isn't realistic.

[speedyp]

OK guys, finally decided on the way forward, and I'm re-selling all the dumb stuff I already bought.

It's now a Gigabyte MA78LM-S2H board for £46. This seems to have decent onboard graphics, if he needs better he can buy his own card!

I'm also getting an AMD Athlon II X3 435 to go with it. It might be unlocked to 4 core, but even if it doesn't, at £61, I don't care.

With a bit of memory & a power supply & a new case if necessary, this is pushing my budget up to @ £160, but should hopefully be an improvement on the previous setup.

So, thanks again for all your help & suggestions.
Cheers

[speedyp]

Confused about memory to go with the new mobo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128328

Understand the MHz value, & 240 pins / non ecc bit. / latency CL4/5/6 etc

But seeing lots of references like "PC2" or "PC6400" ????????????

And with only 2 ram slots, I'm guessing that a 1x2GB stick (which can be added to if he gets money from relatives for his b'day) would be better than 2X1GB?

Cheers

[glc]

That's a dual channel motherboard and will perform best with a matched pair of ram. Yes, you can use only one stick and add another later, but if it's not an exact match it will not run in dual channel mode.

The correct ram is DDR2-800. This can also be seen as PC2-6400.

[speedyp]

Cool - thanks. Just the info I needed

[speedyp]

Old System:
Compaq Presario Desktop Tower:
120GB IDE hard drive
Radeon 9200 / 128MB graphics card VGA
500MB RAM
250W Power Supply

New System:
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-MA74GM-S2H Motherboard £35
Link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128328

CPU: AMD Athlon II X3 445, Rana, Triple 1 £58.44
Link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103872

Power Supply: 600W Storm, Black, 120mm Silent Fan £15
Link: http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/600W-...V20-PCI-E-SATA

Drive: WD 250GB 3.5" 7200RPM WD SATA WD2500JS £23 (used)
Link: http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16822144417

1 GB DDR2 800 PC2-6400 RAM £15
Link: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=310232887367

So that's a total of £160 spent so far inc. local sales tax etc. A bit over my original budget, but I'm hoping to make a small profit on the nVidia 8800GTX which I am re-selling.

Also managed to get a full refund through Paypal for the original Asus mobo which had a damaged cpu skt.

I know I don't have much memory here, but it should be enough for initial setup & testing. He can always buy some more later. The mobo has DVI & HDMI onboard, but he can get a graphics card himself in future if he needs it and the 600W power supply should be OK for upgrades.

Also have a new copy of Windows 7 64bit. Hopefully we will see some improvement on previous system.

Now just waiting for all the bits to arrive. Mobo's here & looks like it will fit the old Presario tower........

[glc]

You have fallen for a common problem - that power supply is rubbish. 15 quid won't get you a quality power supply of any wattage. Good luck with it.

[speedyp]

Originally Posted by glc You have fallen for a common problem - that power supply is rubbish...

No it isn't!
It's 600W.
It's black & light as a feather.
It's got loads of wires, all wrapped up in sexy black stocking stuff.
And it's got a SILENT FAN!!!

That's not rubbish.

I think YOUR power supply is rubbish

To be honest, at this stage all I want to see is a POST success (or anything) on the monitor when I switch it on. If it needs a better power supply it will get it later, once everything's working.

[glc]

That's the last bit of help you are going to get from me, you seem to already know it all. Again, good luck.

It's black & light as a feather.

That should be one clue right there. I'll leave it to others to elaborate if they choose to.

I think YOUR power supply is rubbish

Hmm - a Corsair 520HX rubbish? Hardly.

[Kidd]

Originally Posted by speedyp No it isn't! It's 600W. It's black & light as a feather.

A while back, I read an article comparing many PSU's reliability to each other. One thing stood out among the testing, which was the weight of the PSU's. Among same wattage PSU's, the heaviest were definitively the most reliable, and the lightweights were unreliable in the actual wattage delivered and in quality for long term use. No, I don't remember where I read the full article, but it's touched on here:

http://www.wikihow.com/Buy-a-Power-Supply

Although not a guarantee, there's a strong correlation between weight and quality: bigger components (ie, capacitors) equate to a more tolerant, reliable PSU

The experts on here have built dozens, hundreds, even thousands of PCs in some cases, and that experience is invaluable and not to be taken lightly. Will your PSU work? Probably, at least for a little while. But if it's cheap, don't be surprised when it quits, and I have no idea what kind of damage it will cause to the rest of the components when it goes.

[speedyp]

Relax guys. It was just my attempt at a bit of humor. Not too successful judging by your reactions

Yeah, of course I know it's a piece of crap. But my theory is if I can actually see the system will work / boot then I'll be delighted to upgrade it, with a new psu high on the shopping list. This is my first build, so I'm expecting a few things to go wrong.

Now got mobo, processor & crap psu fitted. Just waiting for hard drive & memory (relented and bought the lad 2 sticks of 1GB instead of just the one

Anyway - appologies if I caused offense. Didn't mean to & value your help & opinions.
Cheers