Cheap Build for Starcraft 2 on ultra

[Prince Myshkin]

Haven't built a computer in 10 years so I've got very little idea as to whats going on. The release of SC2 makes me want to do my build ASAP. SC2 will probably be the most graphic intensive game I'll play. Extent of multitasking will be running 3 IE explorers with 10 tabs each whilst running a media player.

So far I only have the case, Armor a90
Newegg.com - Thermaltake Armor A90 Gaming Mid-Tower Chassis With Cable Management Water Cooling SSD Support And Tool-Less Installation VL90001W2Z

Pretty set on the PSU on sale right now for 109 after rebate and coupon:
Newegg.com - CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-750HX 750W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

Can't decide between these three processors
Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X2 555 Black Edition Callisto 3.2GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 80W Dual-Core Desktop Processor - C3 Revision HDZ555WFGMBOX

Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X3 740 Black Edition Heka 3.0GHz 3 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Desktop Processor HDZ740WFK3DGI - Processors - Desktops

Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ965FBGMBOX

Want Black edition for unlocked multiplier, so I'll need a cooler
Newegg.com - ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 64 Pro 92mm Ceramic CPU Cooler
or
Newegg.com - ZALMAN 9500A-LED 92mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler

I have no idea about motherboards, no idea whats good or what I need.

Just need a GPU good enough to run starcraft on ultra. Right now looking at Radeon 5770. Eyeballing this one right now because it has VGA port as I'm still using an old monitor. Liking the idea of crossfire so that I can double the card later on if necessary

Newegg.com - ASUS CuCore Series EAH5770 CuCore/2DI/1GD5 Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

Budget is around $800 but I'd love to spend as little as possible to get a reliable unit that plays SC2 on ultra settings.

[Nikon]

this videocard is much more powerful, and comes with a dvi-vga adapter for your older monitor.

Newegg.com - ASUS EAH5830 DIRECTCU/2DIS/1GD5 Radeon HD 5830 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card w/ Eyefinity

if you want a black edition CPU, go for the 965. i have seen that chip push 4ghz w/o voltage changes.

if you are really serious about overclocking, i think this is the board you will want.

Newegg.com - ASUS Crosshair IV Formula AM3 AMD 890FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

offers support for up to 2000 mhz memory, and offers the latest NB/SB and all the features you need for a succesful overclock.

this is not the cheapest route to go though. very much an enthusiast PC.

i have to goto work right now, ill be back in the morning hopefully with a suitable build for you within your budget.

[Prince Myshkin]

I really don't need enthusiast parts,not really going to be doing any heavy overclocking, probably won't even mess with the voltage, besides I don't see myself needing that kind of speed anyhow.

I wanted the AMD 555, but then saw the 740, then thought maybe I should go quad core. I'll probably go either 3.0GHz 740 3 core or the 3.2GHz dual core 555. Not sure if its really worth twice the price for the 965.

I really just need the cheapest video card made by a good manufacturer that will run SC2 might even go as cheap as Newegg.com - HIS H555HS1G Radeon HD 5550 1GB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready Low Profile Ready Video Card if it'll do what I need.

Can I use my old optical drives? Are new dvd burners no longer IDE? can I use my old floppy drive? I just need need to use the disk drive to install XP at least thats what I've been reading on here.

Need the cheapest HDD that is quick and reliable. I have an old 300gb sata drive and a 700 gig external so the size of my OS HDD really isn't a factor at all.

EDIT: Crap forgot that I need ram too. Always liked kingston memory, but whatever is good and cheap. I don't think I need the high end stuff such as corsair XMS

[Nikon]

for any gaming system, a cheap videocard is a bad way to go. ill put together a build that should leave you quite happy if you choose to get it.

you dont need a floppy drive anymore. if you wish to use windows XP on this machine, i hope it is 64 bit. Also,
to use windows XP on a sata HDD, you will need to locate and download the sata controllers for the mobo you use, and use the freeware program called nlite to merge them into your windows XP disk (this involves burning a new copy of XP with the included controllers). it is simple to do, i have done it myself and am currently using the computer i did it on. anyhoot, heres the build:

ASUS EAH5830 DIRECTCU/2DIS/1GD5 Radeon HD 5830
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121367

ASUS M4A87TD EVO AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131647

AMD Phenom II X3 740 Black Edition Heka 3.0GHz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103699
i chose the tripple core version of the CPU because that is the most any game will need, plus it can potentially unlock into the full quad core. (this version of the phenom II is a 4 core die with 1 core disabled for various reasons).

Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136533
your new mobo supports sata 6gbp/s, so why not take full advantage of it? plus the size/price of this drive makes it a great value imo.

A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820211364
a-data is among one of the most trusted brands of memory on these forums.

DVD±R DVD Burner - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106281

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129064
i like this case, but thats personal preference, also combo makes it about 30$ cheaper than buying seperately, and 650w is more than plenty.

[Prince Myshkin]

Brilliant! Great suggestions, really helping get on the right road to getting this machine built, however I still have a few questions.

Already received this case
Newegg.com - Thermaltake Armor A90 Gaming Mid-Tower Chassis With Cable Management Water Cooling SSD Support And Tool-Less Installation VL90001W2Z

This PSU is only 109 after rebate and coupon
Newegg.com - CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-750HX 750W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

Motherboard looks really good, great price too, before you were suggesting Newegg.com - ASUS Crosshair IV Formula AM3 AMD 890FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
But i wasn't sure if I was going to need something that intense.

You think the 3 core processor will be future proof enough? If so will this cooler be enough? Newegg.com - ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 64 Pro 92mm Ceramic CPU Cooler

I knew nothing about SATA 6gbps so getting that will improve performance a lot? Bringing the sata drive closer to SSD speeds?

So does the ASUS voltage tweak technology actually do anything because I was also looking at this card because I read on PCMECH that HIM was a good brand Newegg.com - HIS iCooler V H583FN1GD Radeon HD 5830 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card w/Eyefinity

The HIM is a bit cheaper, has a year less warranty, but the ASUS has a replacement only return policy? Not sure If thats really bad or not. Plus ASUS has the voltage tweak, but the HIM has 2 DVI ports, which might be nice someday? Benchmarks that I read Had the asus a bit better though, just wanted to make sure the ASUS card was the better choice.

If you say thats the best RAM for the buck then I won't question you I know nothing about ram however I've always used kingston but the one A-Data product I have (SD card) works great.

Biggest question I have is about the CPU, will the 3 core be good enough? I wonder if it could be stable with 4th core unlocked, and is that cooler enough I will I need to go with something a bit beefier. Maybe I should just go quad core and not overclock and use the stock cooler because after buying a nice cooler for the Tri-Core I will probably only be able to run it at the same speed as the 965's stock GHz.

[glc]

By the time you pay for an aftermarket cooler, you can buy a faster CPU...........

[Prince Myshkin]

Exactly what I was thinking. Not sure what the X3 740 can be easily overclocked to but it probably isn't much higher than 3.4GHz. So I guess I'll get the quad core. I can always get a better cooler and overclock it to 4.0GHz later when i need it.

Can I use my old ribbon cable optical drives or has the format changed?

I have an older 300gb SATA HDD but it is probably 1.5gbps since it is so old, and I have a 750gb external so I don't need anymore space. Do you think my $89 would be better spent on a 32gb SSD for my OS?

[Khalil]

If you are looking for a cheap gaming system why $204 for a motherboard? Here is a great board for less than half Newegg.com - ASUS M4A87TD EVO AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

I would go with the AMD Athlon X4 640 instead of the Phenom tri-core. I love AMD but I am not keen on those 3 core processors.
Asus is best of the best hands down. Diamond second then HIS in third place!

[Nikon]

i suggested the 3core from a price standpoint, and the potential to unlock the 4th core. 3 is all you need in a gaming system, and the phenom cpus are some of the best you can get from amd. if you want the full quad core guaranteed, by all means, get the 965.

the formula IV is the enthusiast route. you dont need it unless you want to go all out.

ASUS M4A87TD has 1 ide port for 'ribbon wire' HDDs, so yes, you can.

[Khalil]

Unlocking the 4th core is proving fatal for many people who have tried it. For the most part the 4th core is defective that is why AMD packaged the tri-cores as such! It was the same with the Phenom II 555s those were quad failures packaged as dual cores. My brother bought one and attempted to unlock the other 2 cores and when the CPU failed he sent it back to AMD who simply laughed at him and now the CPU is in some landfill.
Athlon X4 640 is what I am using in my gaming rig!

[rwest]

Fully agree with Khali.
I have a 3.1 Calisto core which I unlocked to a quad, but would not get stable. I thought I finally got stable with 3 cores at 3.4 but she rebooted on me just the other day when encoding. I could probably run 3 cores at stock speed but I do get excellent overcloking as a dual core. I like the processor, the dual's a beast! But if you want more cores-do not count on it.

The calisto overclocked to 3.7 on air and no voltage tweaks. I run garranteed stable at 3.5ghz. But I think I should have saved a bit more and just got a tripple or quad.

[Prince Myshkin]

Set on video card, processor (going quad core with stock cooler for now), PSU (no one said anything about my choice so I'm guessing it is an OK one).

Thanks for the input Khali, was already looking at that MOBO as it was suggested by Nikon as well. I really know nothing about motherboards and what makes them good.

However after reading Khali's post on the 6.4 Ghz world record I was curious about this Dragon Technology. Looks like it deals with 790GX chipsets? Is 790X chipset on the recommended MOBO just as good or better?

Does the motherboard that was suggested support Phenom II X4 chips? Because I don't see that in the item details.

What about this ASUS M4A78T-E AM3 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard
Newegg.com - ASUS M4A78T-E AM3 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard

This card seems a lot like the one suggested but a bit cheaper (guess thats because it lacks 6gbps)
ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AM3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard
Newegg.com - ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AM3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard

Not sure if this codename Dragon stuff is outdated or not since the Dragon GPU is the HD4870 which doesn't look to be as good as the HD5830 I'm getting.

[Khalil]

Nothing wrong with the 790GX however the 870 is better and faster.
You can't go wrong with a Corsair power supply they are made by Seasonic for Corsair at even higher specs and quality than normal. (Seasonic makes the best power supplies you can buy!)

[Prince Myshkin]

Wonder why the 790 is more expensive? The 790 says that it supports Phenom II X4, but the 870 only says that it supports Phenom II, does that mean all Phenom II chips including the x4? Just want to make sure this board goes with my CPU

[Khalil]

Originally Posted by Prince Myshkin but the 870 only says that it supports Phenom II, does that mean all Phenom II chips including the x4?

Yes it supports all AM3 CPUs. Which 790GX motherboard are you comparing this 870 to?

[Prince Myshkin]

ASUS M4A78T-E AM3 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard
Newegg.com - ASUS M4A78T-E AM3 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard

was only interested in the 790GX chipset because I found it referenced in a thing I was reading about Codename Dragon tech from AMD. I just saw that link you posted to the 6.4ghz world record where they were using Dragon technology and was curious about it.

[Khalil]

That motherboard has built in HDMI and Video which you do not need, but I believe that is why it cost more. The new 870 Chip set is definitely the way to go!

[Prince Myshkin]

Ok just wanted to check, so what is up with this Dragon technology from AMD that i was reading about? They say that the 790GX chipset, radeon 4870, and Phenom II are in this Dragon technology. Looks like I'm buying all components that are better though?

What about RAM? The A Data suggested by NIKON seems pretty good, even though I've been true to kingston for the past few years. Whats with all this XMS and heatsink cooled ram that I'm seeing, does ram really need that much cooling?

Still have no idea what makes a motherboard good? The chipset number? If so what about the 880 or 890 chipset that I'm seeing on newegg. The 870 is nice but didn't get 5 eggs, looks like it is a little small.

I was looking at some others, looks like the only reason they are more expensive is because they have onboard video, which the MOBO suggested to me is without onboard video, but there is no reason for onboard if I'm getting a GPU right?

ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 AM3 AMD 890GX HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
Newegg.com - ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 AM3 AMD 890GX HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
This one won some kind of award and says that it can combine the onboard ATI video with your additional video card for even better performance? Sounds intriguing...

ASUS M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3 AM3 AMD 880G HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
Newegg.com - ASUS M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3 AM3 AMD 880G HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
This one has got 5 eggs, but not sure if its really any better than the 870 chipset.

What about micro/mini boards? Guessing they're smaller and not for big gaming cases?
ATX vs ITX? Bet I could probably just do some searching on this forum and find that answer.

[Prince Myshkin]

Was looking at maybe getting 2gb ram but getting a higher speed (DDR3 1600-2000) but what is the other number PC3 number? Does that have to do with speed or compatibility? saw this for basically the same price as was suggested to me.

-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model AD3U1333B2G9-DRH
Newegg.com - A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model AD3U1333B2G9-DRH

Do I really even need 4gb? Maybe I could play the ram cheap for now and add later by buying this single 2gb DDR 1600 stick: A-DATA Gaming Series 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820211450

[rwest]

If I undestand it correctly:

DDR3 1333 is the ram module's common name. PC3 10666 is the ram modules's standard name. The #'s 10666 refers to the ram's data transfer rate, whereas the #'s 1333 in the common name refers to the ram's operating speed. It's just two different ways of describing the ram module.

DDR 1333 can have different timings and depending on its timing will determine its exact data transfer rate, for naming purposes the standard rate of 10666 is used. The higher the timings the faster or more data is transfered.

Ram really doesn't need alot of cooling unless your overclocking or a heavy gamer. Games that push your ram will take advantage of faster timings and really do need the extra cooling. I'ts just more stable, but it usually costs more. A-data recently has been putting out some excellently priced gaming ram that's no more expensive than quite a few of the standard brand names that's been around for sometime now.

2gig of ram is fine if your going to load XP. 4 gig is reccomended. Less memory is page filed and filling only two slots is easier on the memory controller. Also it seems most boards will clock down when filling all four memory slots. But XP can only see 3.2 gigs of memory, and most boards today use dual channel memory, so to take advantage of this feature 2 x 2gig of memory is reccomended. If you have four slots you can fill, you can go 2 x 1gig and 2 x 512mb and still get dual channel, but for the cost your better off with 2x 2 gig.

If your loading Win 7, 4 gig is highly reccomeneded. 7 will most likely run with 2gig, but from what I 've heard, it's really inadequate.

Oh and for buying one stick at a time: It's doable but again not reccomended. You run the risk of not getting matched sticks and not achieving dual channel operation. But for the most part if you stick with the same timings and brand you'll probably run about a 70-80% chance of getting them to run in dual channel. If you buy a different brand that percentage drops. And don't even try different timings. I would go as far as looking at architecture too if I wanted to have a better chance of achieving dual channel when buying the sticks seperate. Botom line-it's a crap shoot. It's just best to buy the set.

For chipsets and motherboards, I can't help a whole lot. We'll have to wait for the gurus to post. But Toms Hardware usually has real good info on this stuff. Neweggs ratings are worth about a .25 cents, I'll look at them and then also look for a review from a reputable source. It's just not smart to only go by the retailers reviewers. You do get some excellent reviews, but mixed in are the lucky and the uniformed. Many will give a product a high review just because it worked. Many will give a product the worst review because they happened to get a DOA and didn't do a RMA and try again. A lot of good products get nailed this way. The best boards are the ones that get regularly reccomended by system builders.

[Nikon]

if you are running anything newer than windows xp, you need 4gb of ram, else apps will start using the page file, and performance will suffer greatly. ram is cheap enough to warrant 4gb in ANY new system, regardless of useage.

that 2nd number on the ram refers to the peak throughput of the ram, in this case 10666mb/s
in short, the higher that number, the more data the ram can move ina given time frame.

[glc]

With dual channel motherboards, you should buy your ram in matched pairs.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Nikon ram is cheap enough to warrant 4gb in ANY new system

It's about frickn' time too. Currently RAM's about the lowest I've seen it in for about a year now. You shouldn't have to pay more for your ram than your processor-it's just wrong!

Seriously though, now is the time to build the way ram prices are looking. Be nice to see 'em drop just a bit more though.

[Prince Myshkin]

So how do I know what is compatible? Just used Newegg memory configurator and it didn't list any a-data memory as being compatible with the M4A87TD MOBO?

However I did find this RAM that looks pretty sweet thats on sale for $75 after coupon and rebate. CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
Newegg.com - CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMX4GX3M2A1600C9

But I did have my eye on this DDR3 2000 memory.
Newegg.com - A-DATA XPG Gaming Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2000G (PC3 16000) Desktop Memory Model AX3U2000GB2G9-2G
(even though reviews are saying that they can't get this to perform at 2000 speed)

Will that Adata work with the M4A87TD-EVO MOBO, even though newegg doesnt list it as being compatible? Again just not sure how to tell whats compatible, Do i just need to make sure its DDR3

[glc]

All you *NEED* is 1333 speed.

[Nikon]

if the price is right, go for it. heres the thing though. you need to check and make sure of a few things. ram will only operate at the speeds the mobo will allow it to, meaning if you put that 2000 ram into a mobo that only runs ram @ 1333, its only going to operate at 1333. no need to get ram faster than the mobo, its just a waste.

best to get ram that runs at the highest reasonable speed the mobo supports. for a gaming machine, 1333 is plenty, higher speeds have a negligable effect on performance.

by reasonable speed, i mean supported without overclocking.

[Prince Myshkin]

I still might as well get the corsair DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 XMS ram because it is only 74.99, and even as negligable as it may be it is still essentially "better" RAM is it not? Plus it is cheaper. The Asus 870 MOBO I was recommended supports DDR3 2000(O.C.)//1600/1333/1066 so it will be able to take advantage of the negligible benefits right?

Does this mean that this board supports DDR3 2000 Ram or only Ram that is overclocked to 2000?

[glc]

It supports 2000 by overclocking the board and the processor. I would not recommend it.

Is that Corsair ram on the Asus QVL for that board?

[Prince Myshkin]

Originally Posted by glc Is that Corsair ram on the Asus QVL for that board?

Sorry I'm not sure what you're asking I don't know what QVL means.

I did a newegg memory compatibility for this ASUS M4A87TD EVO board Newegg.com - ASUS M4A87TD EVO AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

And the Corsair XMS showed as being compatible.

I have no idea if this is even related to what you are asking.

[glc]

Go to the Asus website and look up the board. There should be a memory compatibility link on the page.

QVL = Qualified Vendors List