building a micro atx rig

[Triangle Man]

And I don't know what the limitations are. I'm wondering what I can put in it without the whole thing burning to a crisp, particularly in terms of GPU.

basically, I need something relatively portable, but I want something a bit stronger than a laptop that I can upgrade when I see fit. Most of the people I ask about it think it's a stupid idea. But screw those guys.

In terms of usage, I'd code on it, use matlab, photoshop/painter, and solidworks. Ideally, I also want to use it to at least play sc2 and civ5 (or greater, if that's even possible). I've seen builds with corei7s but what's the point if you can't put a good GPU in it.

here are some mobos i've been looking at:
Newegg.com - ASUS P7H55-M PRO LGA 1156 Intel H55 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

Newegg.com - EVGA H55V 111-CD-E630-TR LGA 1156 Intel H55 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

Newegg.com - MSI H55M-E33 LGA 1156 Intel H55 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

[glc]

You can put any video card in it that will fit in the case, assuming you have a suitable power supply. You will need to look for a micro case that will take a standard ATX form factor power supply.

I recommend the Asus board.

[Kidd]

Ok, I assume you are going for a mATX board because you want to use a smaller case. Smaller boxes run hotter because you have to cram more stuff in a smaller space, and there are less opportunities for good airflow. On a full size tower, you can add fans if you are having airflow problems. Still, If you avoid overclocking, you shouldn't have any problems. Your case should have a side air duct to reject CPU heat, and without OC, whatever CPU you choose should run fine with the stock heat sink.

For a box to be used with Solidworks and for gaming, I have no idea what you would choose for a GPU. I don't know what makes high end GPUs for gaming and for workstations are so different, maybe an expert could chime in here?

I looked at the ASUS board and stopped there, because it seems to fit your requirements: it's mATX, supports i7, supports up to 16 GB RAM (at least 6 GB for Solidworks), and has a PCI Express 2.0 x16 slot, which should accommodate any GPU you'll need. What next?

[Triangle Man]

thank you! the asus mobo does look pretty good. Here's the case and GPU I'm looking at.

Newegg.com - LIAN LI PC-V351A Silver Aluminum MicroATX Desktop Computer Case

Newegg.com - MSI N460GTX CYCLONE 1GD5/OC GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

I'm fairly sure that will fit. I'm not sure how much leeway I have, though.

I'm still not certain about the CPU. I was thinking i7 860. If that pushes the price above $1000 I'll consider downgrading (the GPU, too, maybe). it's at around $380 right now. I'm recycling mouse, keyboard, monitor. Can't remember what PSU I have in my older computer but I figure I should just buy a new one anyways.

PSU:
Newegg.com - CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply

was looking at this one, and also an antec I can't find the link for anymore. one question, is there any size distinction between atx12v and atx? or does it just have to do with connectors. My case says it can fit an atx size psu.

I think the only thing left is RAM and a wireless card. For the latter, I just want to make sure it can actually fit it into the PCI slot, since the GPU looks pretty thick in certain places. As far as picking wireless cards out, I'm totally in the dark.

EDIT: HSF, RAM, and a wireless card, and hard drive

Newegg.com - XIGMATEK Durin D982 92mm Rifle Ultra Low profile CPU Cooler

Newegg.com - G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ

Newegg.com - TRENDnet TEW-623PI IEEE 802.11b/g, IEEE 802.11n (draft) 32-Bit PCI Rev. 2.1/2.2/2.3 Wireless N-Draft Adapter Up to 300Mbps Wireless Data Rates 64/128-bit WEP (Hex & ASCII), WPA/WPA2, WPA-PSK/WP

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136359

the wireless card selection is totally random. I have no idea. For the HSF, i just want to make sure it's low profile so it actually fits. that one seems pretty good.

with this (i7 860), it all comes out to about $975, just under my cap.

If there's anywhere you think I can shave off some dollars, I'd appreciate it.

[glc]

Use the stock heatsink that comes with the CPU. Use Corsair, Crucial, Kingston, or A-Data ram. You will probably need 2 ram kits or a 4gb x 2 kit, 4gb may not be quite enough for Solidworks. You will need Windows 7 64 bit.

What brand and model is your wireless router?

[jdeb]

I will chime in a little from experience. In terms of choosing between a workstation card and gaming card since you will be doing both, I would suggest a gaming card because workstation cards do not game well because their drivers are optimized for OpenGL or CL, slower clock speeds, and are expensive. they are expensive because of the drivers, they are optimized and certified for engineers that require stable, precise, and reliable renders... speed is a bonus and not the main goal. They really are two different animals so to speak. So if you must choose, then we can look at an option in Solid Works; you can select an option built into the software called "use software OpenGL". Its located in the options>performance tab, the ATI 5900 series cards do support OpenGL. Some features may be unable to be activated, such as realview but it will not deter you from using the software. At the end of the day, my choice would be to have two systems, one for gaming and one for graphic arts, maybe sometime down the road.

Here is my recommendation

ASUS Maximus III GENE LGA 1156 Intel P55
Newegg.com - ASUS Maximus III GENE LGA 1156 Intel P55 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

Intel Core i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz
Newegg.com - Intel Core i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80605I5760

CORSAIR XMS 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM
Newegg.com - CORSAIR XMS 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 Desktop Memory Model CMX6GX3M3A1333C9

In terms of a video card, pick your card you want for gaming. I would never recommend a gaming card for solidworks and either will they. It may also depend on your version of solidworks as well. I would look at the version and make sure your gaming card supports OpenGL or other standard depending on your version.

[Kidd]

Originally Posted by jdeb I will chime in a little from experience. In terms of choosing between a workstation card and gaming card since you will be doing both, I would suggest a gaming card because workstation cards do not game well because their drivers are optimized for OpenGL or CL, slower clock speeds, and are expensive. they are expensive because of the drivers, they are optimized and certified for engineers that require stable, precise, and reliable renders... speed is a bonus and not the main goal. They really are two different animals so to speak. So if you must choose, then we can look at an option in Solid Works; you can select an option built into the software called "use software OpenGL". Its located in the options>performance tab, the ATI 5900 series cards do support OpenGL. Some features may be unable to be activated, such as realview but it will not deter you from using the software. At the end of the day, my choice would be to have two systems, one for gaming and one for graphic arts, maybe sometime down the road.......... In terms of a video card, pick your card you want for gaming. I would never recommend a gaming card for solidworks and either will they. It may also depend on your version of solidworks as well. I would look at the version and make sure your gaming card supports OpenGL or other standard depending on your version.

Thanks for clearing that up, that's the best answer I've heard regarding the differences between workstations and gaming rigs.

Now, I don't use SW, but I was going to say bump that i7 up to the i7-870 for an extra $10. Are you recommending the i5 from experience? In any CPU-intensive software (maybe SW isn't), I'd rather have too much than ever find out I don't have enough.

[Nikon]

the i7-870 is a great chip, i use it myself, and i must say, it flies! overkill for gaming fosho, but still, its a really good chip.

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by Kidd Thanks for clearing that up, that's the best answer I've heard regarding the differences between workstations and gaming rigs. Now, I don't use SW, but I was going to say bump that i7 up to the i7-870 for an extra $10. Are you recommending the i5 from experience? In any CPU-intensive software (maybe SW isn't), I'd rather have too much than ever find out I don't have enough.

just from experience, I have used or should say built both, personally I use a Xeon (x58) on my own workstation with a fx1800 card and solid works has not maxed out my cpu yet. I built one box with that combo suggested and it is one of the most impressive boards that I have worked with (after I updated the bios). I built with an Radeon 5870, AeroCool Qx-2000, wd black, and a corsair 620HX PS.

[Triangle Man]

thank you for the insight! I'm pretty ignorant to the differences between gaming cards and otherwise. Also, did you just use the stock fan for that build? Or would you recommend I go ahead and buy that HSF?

I don't do SW all the time. I just need to use it every now and then for mostly non-school related projects, so hopefully it won't be a huge issue. I'll ask some of my ME friends what they have and how SW runs for them, hopefully get to test stuff out myself.

But I will definitely consider switching to the i5 760. I've been doing some reading on it and it seems like a pretty excellent CPU, certainly good enough for what I want and cheaper to boot. particularly good if I'll be getting more RAM.

and i didn't forget the OS. i get win7 free from my school as a CS major

[glc]

Why are you recommending a triple channel ram kit for a dual channel motherboard? Why are you recommending a costly motherboard?

[Triangle Man]

ok, i think i've settled on everything but the GPU. I decided to not get a HSF for now and see how the stock fan does first. I'm keeping my mobo but changing to the i5.

for the GPU, I'm deciding between these, all forms of gtx 460.

Newegg.com - Open Box: MSI N460GTX CYCLONE 1GD5/OC GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

Newegg.com - MSI N460GTX CYCLONE 1GD5/OC GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

Newegg.com - EVGA 01G-P3-1377-TR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) FTW 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

the first one is open box, at $174. I don't know how reliable getting open box stuff is, and am unsure whether the $26 price reduction is worth the risk. the second is just a non open box version for $200.

the 3rd is a 460 FTW, at $230. Both cards will fit in my case. I'm concerned with heat (the msi one runs cooler i think), but also would like my card to stay fresh for a decent amount of time.

Wondering if anyone knows anything about the tradeoffs between the msi 460 cyclone and the 460 FTW, about ordering open box stuff from newegg, and whether it's all worth $56. And for the record, I'll still be under $1000 with the FTW. I'm at $911 with the open box msi one.

EDIT: actually, probably won't get the FTW. do want to know about buying open box, though.

[jdeb]

The motherboard offers him the greater bios functionality. He is looking at a dual purpose and with his decision on gaming over workstation, I trust the value should move towards his greatest need. The triple channel suggestion is to compensate for his choice in GPU.

He made his choice and not a bad one. I just prefer the bios and chip set configuration of the genie III. It reminds me of the Foxconn Inferno Katana but with greater control.

[glc]

It won't RUN in triple channel - the 3rd module is a waste and could actually slow it down. P55's take modules in pairs.

I still don't think the extra $50 for that motherboard is worth it.

Have you considered a Radeon 5830? I don't trust open box components. If you want a 460 1gb, I'd get this one:

Newegg.com - EVGA 01G-P3-1370-TR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by glc It won't RUN in triple channel - the 3rd module is a waste and could actually slow it down. P55's take modules in pairs. I still don't think the extra $50 for that motherboard is worth it. Have you considered a Radeon 5830? I don't trust open box components. If you want a 460 1gb, I'd get this one: Newegg.com - EVGA 01G-P3-1370-TR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

your wrong and your right glc. 6gb double channel is still more than 4gb dual channel. At least the set is matched and a 64 bit OS is going to pull from it. None of those cards are going to do poop for solid works either. they will work but not like they are designed too.

[Triangle Man]

Originally Posted by glc Newegg.com - EVGA 01G-P3-1370-TR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

Is there a good difference between this one and the one I currently have selected? (this)

They are both the same price, so I could go either way. Although if one runs cooler/OCs easier that's a plus.

as far as RAM, I figure I'll go the same way as with the HSF and stick with 4 gb for now and get more if I need it. Also, I switched from gskill to some slightly better seeming A-data, for the same price.

I missed your question about the router from before. I'm at school and I'm not totally sure what hardware they use. I think it's cisco routers. It was the case for my old dorm but maybe it's different here.

I switched from the trend micro to this:
Newegg.com - Rosewill RNX-N250PC IEEE 802.11b/g, IEEE 802.11n Draft PCI Draft N 2T2R Wireless Adapter Up to 300Mbps Wireless Data Rates WPA/WPA2; WPA-PSK/WPA2-PSK; 64/128 BIT WEP; TKIP/AES

I figure it covers my bases ok, no matter where I am. The price seems alright. If you have a more tried and true recommendation, I'm all ears.

[glc]

I'm making my video card recommendation based on brand, not specs.

Unless you know for a fact that you have wireless-N coverage, I'd stick with a wireless-G adapter. I have used this one with good results:

Newegg.com - Rosewill RNX-G300EX IEEE 802.11b/g PCI Wireless Card Up to 54Mbps Data Rates 64/128-Bit WEP, 802.1x, WPA, WPA2, AES, TKIP with 100cm cable external 2 dBi Antenna

6gb double channel is still more than 4gb dual channel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's always been my impression that in order to maintain dual channel operation, you have to have matched modules in each bank. Wouldn't a 3rd module all by itself throw the whole rig back to single channel?

[David M]

That's been my impression. You do dual channel with an even numbered amount of DIMM's and triple channel in sets of three or six DIMM's.

[Triangle Man]

Originally Posted by glc Unless you know for a fact that you have wireless-N coverage, I'd stick with a wireless-G adapter. I have used this one with good results: Newegg.com - Rosewill RNX-G300EX IEEE 802.11b/g PCI Wireless Card Up to 54Mbps Data Rates 64/128-Bit WEP, 802.1x, WPA, WPA2, AES, TKIP with 100cm cable external 2 dBi Antenna

oh wow, I was actually just looking at this before I read your post. It showed up in the "black november" sale list ($5 off). I'll switch to this one. thanks! pretty sure i don't have wireless n.