3D HD-Audio HTPC/Workstation

[staindrocks]

First of all, this will be my first ever build. However, i really don't want that to be a factor in the overall quality of this build. I pretty much know the capabilities i want in my home theater setup, but i'm just not quite certain how to best get there in the most economical and efficient way. I've been doing quite a bit of research lately, but to be honest i've read so much info about so many different things that i'm actually beginning to get a little scatter-brained.

Here's a list of what capabilities i'd like to have:

• Effortless Playback of all media
• HD-Audio
• 3D Bluray (frame packing w/active shutter glasses)
• 3D Dual Projector Polarization(w/passive glasses)
• Massive Storage capabilities(expandable) w/excellent data protection
• Multi-room/display accessible(access & playback media via HTPC in multiple rooms on their respective displays)
• XBMC w/good RF Remote Control
• Quiet w/proper ventilation/cooling
• Future Proof/Upgradeable(as much as possible)
• HD Encoding/Re-Encoding & 3D Gaming capable would be nice, but depends on how much overall price difference with these capabilities compared to the rest of the build)
• HD DVR capable would be awesome, but i have DirecTV(not possible AFAIK)

I guess i need help with not only the components i should get, but also whether it would be more financially economical to have an all in one build/machine for everything(media playback, media storage, encoding/re-encoding workstation) vs. separating the builds(HTPC, NAS, Workstation). I'm not really concerned over form factor size, so i'm not limited by that. I'm also pretty sure i'll eventually need more space(no matter how much storage i have in this build), so a NAS will most likely be in my future.

As far as Intel vs AMD, it's not important to me. I'm just looking for the most financially feasible way to do this build while still not compromising on any of the capabilities i want it to have. If that means buying components above and beyond what i need right now(for future upgradeability), then that's fine.

I also saw a link to this HTPC at maximumpc.com. This covers much of what i'm looking for, but i'm not sure about everything. I'm also not sure if why they need a separate sound card($250), or if there is a different solution where you don't have to get a sound card.

[David M]

If you have a really high end sound system, I would get the sound card. It is used to decode the Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MS audio tracks. Onboard sound will get you sound but it will not be the best sound possible. The higher end Soundblaster cards also do the same for Bluray movies.

I found this site that explains Bluray lossless sound pretty well....
http://www.soundadviceblog.com/blu-ray-audio-explained/

[staindrocks]

David,

Thanks for the link you provided. Right now, i don't have a really high end sound system, but i do plan on upgrading to one in the near future. The question i had about the separate sound card is because i thought there were GPU's that supported HD-Audio themselves:

ATI Radeon HD 5xxx series
GeForce GTX 460/GTS 450/GT 440/GT 430
Intel Core i3/i5(Clarkdale) Processor(integrated)

Are none of these compatible with something else(like 3D Bluray) in the setup? Is this why maximumpc went with an additional sound card?

[glc]

Build it without a sound card, you can always add one later if necessary.

[staindrocks]

On the NVIDIA 3D Vision website, if i understand it correctly, it says the GTX 460 supports Bluray 3D and Dolby True-HD/DTS-HD with a Bluray 3D software player(i read the best atm is Cyberlink PowerDVD 10 Ultra Mark II ). So i'd just like to confirm with you guys if this is correct? And while i'm asking, what about this GPU for gaming...is it sufficient for 2D and 3D gaming?


Also, i want to make sure their isn't any way i could have HD DVR capabilities(in my HTPC) with my current Directv service? Everything i've found says NO, but my knowledge is limited to my google search capabilities.


I have a 2TB F4 Samsung HDD that i just bought a few days ago(for my current pc, which has 4TB filled up already), but my current mobo isn't SATA so i found out i can't use it on my current pc. GLC, i read on another thread where you said Samsung drives are unreliable, so i guess i should get something else for my OS drive(in the new build HTPC). Is the WD Caviar Black the only option here? And does it matter the size of it(500GB vs 1TB vs 2TB)? And will my 2TB Samsung be ok for just a secondary media storage hdd?

[glc]

I would recommend a Black for a primary drive. You can try using the Samsung for a storage drive, hopefully it will hold up for you.

A GTX460 is an excellent gaming card for the money, get a 1gb version.

[jdeb]

glc,

you always discount the sound card and with respect, due to cost /performance relation. Have you tried the newer sound cards verses the on board ones? I can tell you from experience that the on board sound is not comparable to latest expansion card offerings available. I think Davids direction was right on target.

[staindrocks]

jdeb,
Wouldn't the HD-Audio just be passed through to my AVR, and then the AVR would do the decoding? Also, you guys keep saying "onboard", but isn't it the graphics card doing the audio and not the mobo?

The way i understand it, the GTX 460 has a built-in HD audio processor with 8 channel LPCM output, but also has the ability to bitstream Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA straight to the receiver without decoding it first, instead letting the receiver do the decoding.

[glc]

you always discount the sound card and with respect, due to cost /performance relation.

Yes, I do. I also state that one can be added later if necessary, just like any other card. Now, can you address the latest question? If this is fact, it seems to me a sound card may be a waste in this case.

[staindrocks]

Ok, i'm confident enough from reading the "Nvidia GeForce GTX 460(GF104 GPU) supports full audio bitstreaming" thread over at avsforums that i'll be fine without a sound card if i get the GTX 460.

I also know i'm going with a Caviar Black HDD(1TB or 1.5TB) for my primary drive.

Now i really need some help with the rest of the build. What's a good CPU/Mobo combo, which will give me pretty good performance for the money. I'll want to be able to playback all of my media files(720p, 1080p/mkv, m2ts, iso/full blurays, 3D, etc.), play 3D games, and do some HD encoding/re-encoding.

And i also need help with the rest, so any suggestions would be great. I really have no idea when it comes to how much and what kind of RAM i need, what kind of power supply, etc.

[David M]

Caviar Blacks can be noisy. If you want a quieter hard drive suitable for the higher temps found in a HTPC case then look at these hard drives. You do not need a real fast hard drive for playing movies or music.

WD AV-GP ( WD20EVDS )

[staindrocks]

David,
I'm not sure if i'm going to have a HTPC case or not. I'm open to anything from a HTPC case to a full tower, or anything in between. What i'd like to do is have my HTPC controlled by a RF Remote Control, if this is even possible. If possible, then i could actually build this as a full tower HTPC/NAS/Workstation(ie primary pc), which would be kept in my PC room(separate from my home theater areas). Does anybody here know if this is possible, and if so, how to go about it?

Actually, to be more precise, i was looking for a RF Remote Control solution to work with XBMC(which i'd really like to try out on this HTPC). The whole reasoning behind a RF remote is so i can use my HTPC to playback media in 2, or possibly 3 separate rooms. I have a home theater room with a projector setup, and then i have my bedroom with 50" Kuro(most used), and i have the living room 42" Panny. I was hoping i could utilize this HTPC for all rooms/displays without having to physically move and/or disconnect anything.

[staindrocks]

Ok, i finally found what i was looking for in the XBMC forums...the RF remote solution can be done, so now i just have to figure out if it's possible to hardwire my HTPC to multiple rooms(to each rooms display/avr). I would think it can be done with a HDMI splitter, but i'm not sure if and/or how that might affect the signal. I'm hoping it will work, but i guess i won't know for sure until i try it. So, i'm thinking about trying out this case:

CASE
COOLER MASTER RC-692-KKN2 CM690 II Advanced Black Steel ATX Mid Tower = $79.99

CPU
AMD Phenom II X3 740 Black Edition Heka 3.0GHz 3 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Desktop Processor HDZ740WFK3DGI - OEM = $88.99(This sounds like a good price/performance pick for the money)

MOBO
??? (Need some help with this...I'm not sure what i'm looking for in a good mobo choice, but i just want it to serve my needs/not limit me somewhere along the way)

GPU
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 (not sure which mfg's card i'm going with yet, that's a whole other "pick 1 out of a 100" decision i need to make)

RAM/MEMORY
??? (no idea, could really use some help here)

POWER SUPPLY
??? (I think i read where 450-500W is sufficient for the GPU, but 650-700W if i ever SLI 2 GTX 460's...)

HDD(w/OS)
WD Caviar Black(not sure about size...what's recommended, or does it matter. Also, what are the pros/cons of going with a small SSD for OS drive)

[staindrocks]

I apoligize for the double post before, i didn't mean to do it. I tried editing it after i realized that i did DP, but now i can't seem to find an edit button.

It's been about 3 days now with no more response, and i'm just wondering if there's anything i can do to help you guys give me some more suggestions to help me complete my build.

[David M]

HDMI cable is very limited in its effective length, about 50 feet. You will need to run ethernet cable if you want to run video images to other rooms. I don't know specifically what hardware you will need at each end of the ethernet cable for your situation.

If nobody here has a definitive answer, then I would check in one of the A/V forums about running movies and high end audio to other rooms.

You will never need two 460's for watching movies. Even one of them is way overkill for watching a movie. A single AMD 5700 series card is the absolute most you need. The more powerful a graphics card, the more noise it makes which is the reason you don't want a powerful card in a home theater computer...unless hearing fans buzzing away while watching a movie do not bother you.

Edit: in doing a little research, I found this article...
http://www.abccables.com/info-hdmi-max-length.html

There are HDMI signal equalizers-extenders-amplifiers that allow you to take a HDMI signal beyond 50 feet.
http://www.amazon.com/RiteAV-HDMI-1-.../dp/B000V1JUIQ

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...nal+&x=11&y=33

[staindrocks]

The GeForce GTX 460 is the only card which will allow me to bitstream HD-Audio AND 3D Gaming AND Bluray 3D(play the new 3D bluray movies via my pc). From what i've read, they're actually pretty quite(1 of them). But you're right, i don't see myself needing 2 of them.

For HDMI, i shouldn't need to run any of them past 25-30 feet...the only thing that concerns me is what the HDMI switch might do to the signal. But like you said, i can try to find that out on an A/V forum.

The biggest thing i'm trying to find out in this forum is what parts i should get to do the actual build. Pretty much, a system that can act as a HTPC, 3D Gaming, Light HD Encoding/Re-encoding machine. If you guys could help me out on just the build itself, it would really be helping me out.

[David M]

What more are you looking for? Your build looks pretty good to me. The only thing not listed is an OS and an optical drive.

[staindrocks]

Mobo, RAM, and PSU

Also, i'm really just as unsure about the CPU choice i listed? If there's something else that would be better for the encoding(on a price vs performance ratio)...i'm open to anything. I don't have any experience with building pc's, so i don't want to end up getting the wrong thing that might bring up compatibility issues.

Thanks for those links!

[pally01]

Originally Posted by staindrocks The GeForce GTX 460 is the only card which will allow me to bitstream HD-Audio AND 3D Gaming AND Bluray 3D(play the new 3D bluray movies via my pc). From what i've read, they're actually pretty quite(1 of them). But you're right, i don't see myself needing 2 of them.

I'm running a GTX460 in my HTPC and it's very quiet. I haven't gamed with it (yet), but for normal use and playing movies I have no issues with noise at all.

[David M]

I'm not much into AMD's, so I can't help there.

For RAM I would get four gigs of Corsair, 1333, 1.5 volt. Two sticks in a four gig kit would be good in case you ever want to to increase the amount to 8 gigs.

[staindrocks]

Thanks for the advice on the RAM, David.

@pally01
Which 460 do you have? I'm driving myself crazy trying to decide which one i should buy...i'm leaning towards the MSI Cyclone at the moment.

[glc]

From a quality and support standpoint, I'd recommend an EVGA or an Asus.

[pally01]

Originally Posted by staindrocks @pally01 Which 460 do you have? I'm driving myself crazy trying to decide which one i should buy...i'm leaning towards the MSI Cyclone at the moment.

I have an EVGA 01G-P3-1371-AR: Newegg.ca - EVGA 01G-P3-1371-AR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) FPB EE 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card. I'm having some trouble with my sound with this card a.t.m (thread opened), so you may want to look at that...

[staindrocks]

Originally Posted by glc From a quality and support standpoint, I'd recommend an EVGA or an Asus.

Yeah, i was originally going to go with EVGA due to their reputation for providing good customer service along with a "limited lifetime warranty". I've also read that EVGA will still honor the warranty even if you OC, which i believe voids the warranty every other manufacturers cards.
So i keep going back and forth!

Originally Posted by pally01 I have an EVGA 01G-P3-1371-AR: Newegg.ca - EVGA 01G-P3-1371-AR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) FPB EE 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card. I'm having some trouble with my sound with this card a.t.m (thread opened), so you may want to look at that...

Did you update the driver with the 260 driver release? From Nvidia's website:

New in Release 260.89

HD Audio

• Adds lossless DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD audio bitstreaming support for compatible Blu-ray movies with GeForce GTX 460 GPUs*.
• Adds high definition 24-bit, 96 and 192 KHz multi-channel audio sampling rate support for compatible Blu-ray movies with GeForce GTX 400 Series ,GT 240, GT 220 and 210 GPUs*.
• Upgrades HD Audio driver to version 1.1.9.0.

*Note: A Blu-ray movie player update may be required to enable these new features; check with your movie players software manufacturers for more details.These features are only supported on Windows 7.


Also, you might want to check out this thread @ avsforum which discusses just about everything you need to know about bitstreaming HD-Audio w/GTX 460.

EDIT:
I just read the actual problem your having over at your own thread, which shouldn't have anything to do with the driver update, so strike that.

[pally01]

Originally Posted by staindrocks Did you update the driver with the 260 driver release? From Nvidia's website: New in Release 260.89 EDIT: I just read the actual problem your having over at your own thread, which shouldn't have anything to do with the driver update, so strike that.

Thanks for that. It wasn't the driver. Incidently, the latest driver is 260.99. I'll put some closure to my thread now...

[Preston]

Originally Posted by staindrocks Also, what are the pros/cons of going with a small SSD for OS drive

That is the route I went with my HTPC. I put a small Intel SSD in there for the OS. My WD drive became my storage drive.

Besides the obvious speed advantage of an SSD, my system runs a lot cooler.

There is some debate about the reliability of an SSD on this board, but I have two systems with SSDs that have both been rock solid. All my future builds will have an SSD.

[glc]

The only caveat I have these days with SSD's (other than cost) is - you must keep a backup image! There are enough weird failures occurring where it would be invaluable to be able to do a quick restore.

You must NOT defrag it - EVER.

[Nuclear Krusader]

And what's this thing about the TRIMM command I keep hearing of?

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by Nuclear Krusader And what's this thing about the TRIMM command I keep hearing of?

White Paper: The TRIM Command | Maximum PC

[Nuclear Krusader]

Guess I should trim that extra M. Thanks.