New Build

[54fighting]

This is my first build.

I've read this site and others, and, although the information is overwhelming, I think I have a sense of what I need (and I think a build will be a great introduction to an area which is foreign to me). Hopefully, my low-tech DYI skills will serve me well.

The computer is for my 16 year old son, who is a heavy online gamer (WOW, in particular). I'd like to build a high end gaming system with some bling (being that it is for a 16 year old). My sense is that a $2,000 budget (excluding externals, e.g., monitor) would be sufficient, but I'm not focused on that number nor do I want to waste money.

I would be grateful for any input (as I still feel, look and sound like the blind man trying to describe the elephant).

Case: COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case (Newegg - $130). My principal concern with this case is the lack of fan filters, but there seem to be some good online suggestions for constructing filters (I was a bit tempted by the Bifenix Colossus - the 16 year old thing - but it doesn't seem to be available in the US).

Power Supply: SeaSonic X750 Gold 750W ATX12V V2.3/EPS 12V V2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply (Newegg - $170). This seems to be a bit more than I need, but not a lot more.

Motherboard: ASUS P7P55D-E Pro LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (Newegg - $180). This seems to be the consenus pick here (although the X58 gets a lot of love on other sites, not so here).

CPU: Intel Core i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor BX80601950 (Newegg - $295).

Graphics Card: SAPPHIRE 100281SR Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card w/ATI Eyefinity (Newegg - $340).

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive (Newegg - $90).

Memory: CORSAIR DOMINATOR 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMP8GX3M2A1600C9 (Newegg - $200).

Optical Drive: SAMSUNG Black 8X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA Internal Blu-ray Combo Drive - Bulk Model SH-B083L/BSBP LightScribe Support - OEM (Newegg - $80)

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM (Newegg - $180).

[David M]

Case: COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case (Newegg - $130). My principal concern with this case is the lack of fan filters, but there seem to be some good online suggestions for constructing filters (I was a bit tempted by the Bifenix Colossus - the 16 year old thing - but it doesn't seem to be available in the US).
Nice case. I don't know if the computer is a surprise, but perhaps let him pick out the case? All cases pretty much work. They are though mostly a personal preference based on their looks. One of the ways to keep some of the dust out of a computer is to not sit it directly on the floor. Raise it up a bit where the dust does not settle.

Power Supply: SeaSonic X750 Gold 750W ATX12V V2.3/EPS 12V V2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply (Newegg - $170). This seems to be a bit more than I need, but not a lot more.
It's only a little bit more than you need. I like having a PSU with a little headroom in case it starts going bad or starts overheating. The Corsair TX750 is quieter with its 140mm fan and has a five year warranty. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9006&Tpk=tx750 If you have an additional $50 to burn, Corsair has an AX750 that is modular, is even higher quality and comes with a 7 year warranty. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...6&Tpk=ax%20750

Motherboard: ASUS P7P55D-E Pro LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (Newegg - $180). This seems to be the consenus pick here (although the X58 gets a lot of love on other sites, not so here).
Excellent board...it's being recommended in this forum.

CPU: Intel Core i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor BX80601950 (Newegg - $295). This is the only real problem here. You will need an 1156 processor to go with your 1156 board. The i-7 870 fits a nice price/performance niche.

Graphics Card: SAPPHIRE 100281SR Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card w/ATI Eyefinity (Newegg - $340). Sapphire is good but it does not have the excellent customer service you will find with a Diamond or an HIS card. The 5870 is a great choice.

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive (Newegg - $90).
Perfect.

Memory: CORSAIR DOMINATOR 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMP8GX3M2A1600C9 (Newegg - $200).
This is fine, it will need to be overclocked and the voltage probably raised to 1.65 volts to reach 1600 but that is relatively easy to do. If you do not want to overclock then look at the same RAM but 1333, 1.5 volts. The difference in overall performance is only one or two percent in the benchmarks.

Optical Drive: SAMSUNG Black 8X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA Internal Blu-ray Combo Drive - Bulk Model SH-B083L/BSBP LightScribe Support - OEM (Newegg - $80)
I think glc is recommending the LG Bluray players, not that there is any problem that I know of with the Samsung's.

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM (Newegg - $180). You may not need Ultimate. You will need 64 bit to support 8 gigs of RAM. Here are the differences between the versions... http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...oducts/compare


That's a kick-ass computer Dad....that any 16 year old would be happy with.

[glc]

I would recommend a Radeon 6870 from Asus, Diamond, or HIS - or a Nvidia GTX 470 from Asus or EVGA.

I would recommend standard 1.5 volt ram instead of Dominator - and 1333 speed is sufficient unless you are going to be overclocking.

I'm a bit leery of Samsung optical drives due to past reliability problems. I would also get a standard DVD burner and think about Blu-Ray later.

[54fighting]

Thanks very much for the comments.

I suppose cases generate the most opinionated discussion because they all tend to work. Aside from looks, it seems to be all about heat and cable management, expandability and ease of build. As an aside, do stock fans tend to do the job or is this a necessary or desired upgrade? Nice suggestion re selecting the case. By the way, the Lian-Li PC-A71B looks exceptional.

David M, do you think I need to step up in wattage on the PSU or just go with the AX750(and thanks for avoiding a foolish mistake on the CPU)?

GLC, do you prefer those cards over the 5870 or is it your view that the 5870 is overkill for games like WOW, Starcraft II, Company of Heros, etc., or that with the 5870 one begins to see diminishing returns (e.g., Tom’s Hardware is suggesting two lower priced cards over the higher price cards at certain price points)?

Is the decision to overclock made upfront; i.e., you have to overclock with Corsair Dominator, but you wouldn’t overclock with CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 Desktop Memory Model CMX8GX3M2A1333C9 (I think this is the ram you are suggesting)?

I’ll skip the bluray. Is there any reason to go with anything more than 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 16X DVD+R DL 22X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache IDE 22X DVD±R DVD Burner LightScribe Support – OEM.

I’ll go with Win 7 Pro 64.

Very excited to finalize my shopping list.

[glc]

You can't go wrong with a 5870, but the 6870 is the new generation. The 6870 actually replaces the 5850, AMD is playing games with numbers. There is no new generation replacement for the 5870 yet. A quality 750 watt PSU will power any single card on the planet.

What we are saying is with 1333 speed ram, your overclocking options are going to be more limited than they will be with 1600. You do not have to overclock at all, and either speed will work fine. Note that if you do not overclock, 1600 ram will only run at 1333 anyway.

I don't see where more fans will be needed. If you do have cooling issues, they can always be added.

From a manufacturing quality standpoint, Lian-Li cases are absolutely top of the line. However, I also like the quality of Coolermaster and Antec.

[54fighting]

AMD's numbering is confusing.

I see that the ASUS P7P55D-E Pro will support SLI/Crossfire.

Nvidia states that the Corsair TX750 will support Dual GeForce GTX 470 GPUs (they also give the nod to the HX750, but make no mention of the AX750). Since the GTX 470s are power hogs, presumably, what is good for dual GTX 470s would be good for dual
6870s in crossfire.

But if dual cards were the option, would you suggest a step up in wattage and if so, to what level?

[glc]

Official AMD recommendation for the 6870:

500 Watt or greater power supply with two 75W 6-pin PCI Express® power connectors recommended (600 Watt and four 6-pin connectors for AMD CrossFireX™ technology in dual mode)

The TX750 surpasses these requirements. The AX750 is too new to have Nvidia certification, but it will certainly be at least as good as a TX750.

Yes, the Pro supports Crossfire and SLI.

[David M]

Normally with Radeon (AMD) graphics cards, the first digit described the generation of the GPU. Not so this time. The 5000 series GPU is the same basic architecture as the 6000 series GPU. They did make some other nice changes though.

I think what happened is they already had a 5970, which has two GPU's, so they decided to move the series up to 6000. What would have been more descriptive and honest is to label the new cards a 5855 and a 5885 card. The 5970 is much faster than their 6000 series cards.

AMD Radeon

[54fighting]

I've revised my list (the dollar amount include shipping and tax

Case: Haven't decided: Lian Li PC-A71, Antec 1200, Cooler Master HAF 932, Cooler Master ATCS 840, Corsair Obsidian 800D or SilverStone Fortress FT02 (I'm leaning toward a case with a removable MOB tray).
PSU: Corsair AX850 - Amazon $169.99 - I want to make sure I have enough power if I opt to go crossfire or SLI.
MOB: ASUS P7P55D-E Pro - Amazon $179.99
CPU: Intel Core i7-870 - Amazon $279.99
GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 580 or AMD Radeon HD 6900. The new Radeon series drops 12/13; I want to see how it compares with the GTX 580.
HD: Western Digital Caviar Black 1 TB Desktop Hard Drive (WD1002FAEX) Amazon $87.45
RAM: CORSAIR DOMINATOR 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMP8GX3M2A1600C9 - Newegg $219.49 (w/shipping & tax) - I want the overclocking option
DVD/CD: ASUS Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk – OEM - Newegg $20.84
Wireless: Rosewill RNX-G300EX IEEE 802.11b/g PCI Wireless Card Up to 54Mbps Data Rates 64/128-Bit WEP, 802.1x, WPA, WPA2, AES, TKIP with 100cm cable external 2 dBi Antenna - Newegg $21.44
OS: Windows 7 PRO 64 Bit System Builder 1pk - Amazon $139.99

[glc]

My only comment is you are paying a premium when you buy a brand new video card when it's first released. If you don't care about value, that's fine.

[54fighting]

I'm missing something.

The GTX 580 is selling for about $500 on Newegg (EVGA 015-P3-1580-AR GeForce GTX 580 (Fermi) 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card).

A pair of GTX 470s or Radeon HDs 6870s are pricing a few dollars over $500. If you can find the Radeon 5970, the lowest price I've found is in the mid $600s.

[Jbc223456]

What glc is saying is that the GTX 580 is a brand new card out on the market, and therefore one would be paying a premium since it is a new release. Cards such as the GTX 470 and HD 6870 have been out for awhile, and therefore the prices have lowered considerably (i.e. why dual of either card are equal to the price of a single 580 or less than a single 5970). If value is no limit (i.e. you do not mind paying the high premium), then the GTX 580 is fine to purchase. However, the GTX 580 will definitely be lowering in price within the next few months, especially when AMD releases their new series in December.

[54fighting]

Thanks.

But it seems like the GTX 580 is at least the equivalent of dual 470s and 6870s, and it appears that the price of the 580 is less than the price of dual 470s and 6870s; the 580 pricing at about $510 and the dual cards pricing at $520+. So, even if the 580 drops in price it would seem to be a better value than the dual cards currently.

Also, I'm guessing that the AMD 6900 would be superior to the AMD 5970. If so, how will the 6900 compete pricewise with the GTX 580 as the 5970 is selling at $650+

[David M]

You can buy a 5970 for $500 now. It will blow any of those cards out of the water including any of the 6000 series cards. There is no 6970, yet.

As glc said, AMD is playing numbers games.

Newegg.com - SAPPHIRE 100280SR Radeon HD 5970 (Hemlock) 2GB 512 (256 x 2)-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

If you are considering a future upgrade, a PSU under over 1000 watts is required to run two 5970's. Those will run a three+ monitor system called Eyefinity, which is lots of fun.

[54fighting]

Is Sapphire a good name? I thought for AMD it was Assus, Diamond or HIS.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Sapphire is very good, but it doesn't offer end user support in North America.

[glc]

There is no way you will ever need TWO 5970's.

Perhaps you should read this article:

Best Graphics Cards For The Money: November 2010 : November Updates

[54fighting]

David M, are you listening (with your Corsair 1200AX and dreams of a second 5970)?

I've read that article several times, and I read the review of the 580 on that site as well.

I also read the Hard OCP review that compares the 580 and the 5970 as well as all the hate for that review on hardforum, and my head hurts.

What I took from the review you cite was that the 5970 wasn't really worth it at a price point of $550 (which is about $100 less than the current purchase price of the card with end user support in the US - something that I'm assuming is important).

The Tom's Hardware reviewer preferred the dual 470s and 6870s at the $490 price point, but Tom's also wrote that the 580 has cleaned up many of the problems associated with the 480.

It seems that the open questions are whether the 580 is preferable to dual 470s and 6870s, how the 580 fares against the 5970, how the new 6000 series due in a few weeks will compare to both the 580 and the 5970 and the price point for the new 6000 series.

The general view at hardforum (shared by David M no doubt) is that the 580 can't compete with an overclocked 5970.

[David M]

Originally Posted by glc There is no way you will ever need TWO 5970's.

Only if you are running three large monitors with graphics intensive games. Actually, in some games I could use more power from the graphics card. With a 5970 down to 500 bucks it might be worth it now.

[54fighting]

Originally Posted by David M Only if you are running three large monitors with graphics intensive games. Actually, in some games I could use more power from the graphics card. With a 5970 down to 500 bucks it might be worth it now.

With the rebate, that Sapphire card is $470. How important is having end user support in the US?

[glc]

The only issue is going to be trying to collect on the warranty if you need it. It can be quite difficult to get a RMA out of them.

[54fighting]

Is there a good primer for HD vs. SSD? I understand that SSD is much faster and much more expensive.

But I lack some basic knowledge.

All other things being equal, would installing a game like Starcraft II (to be played online) on a SSD improve the gaming experience? Presumably, the benefit of a SSD is more than simply shortening the boot up time; the programs run faster?

Is the storage on a SSD so limited that only a few games could be installed on a SSD?

[Nuclear Krusader]

Stay away from SSDs until the prices have come down and the firmware issues have been resolved.

[David M]

Originally Posted by 54fighting Is there a good primer for HD vs. SSD? I understand that SSD is much faster and much more expensive. But I lack some basic knowledge. All other things being equal, would installing a game like Starcraft II (to be played online) on a SSD improve the gaming experience? Presumably, the benefit of a SSD is more than simply shortening the boot up time; the programs run faster? Is the storage on a SSD so limited that only a few games could be installed on a SSD?

No, it will only make the game load faster, not run faster. A good graphics card will make it run faster.