Challenge: Need old school parts for older school desktop

[brettitonius]

So glad I found this forum. Thanks in advance for any advice and research to the forum group.

Ideology: I want to squeeze another 9 months out of a 5 year old Alienware Area-51 desktop and save up to build a whole new rig. I have a few newer parts (relative to the original) and I'm going to try to squeeze everything I can out of the old hardware. Think McGyver on food stamps. I'd like to say $200-$300 budget max.

Challenge: Using old technology to upgrade older technology so it seems like new technology. No need to post: "dude just save for the new mobo and i5, ddr3 etc." I'll get to all of that for the new build - but I have to believe that there are some cheap parts out there better than what I already have that will give new life to an old and faithful pc to squeeze a little more gaming goodness out of it.

System usage: My basic usage is internet surfing and games. Period. I'd like to be able to spend less than $300 to make some of my older games more enjoyable, faster etc. Mostly playing COD:UO (I know, ancient but still love it), Rome TW, Mideval II, F.E.A.R., HL2 - I can play Crysis on like 5 FPS- pretty fun there. But the bottom line is mostly older stuff- running 1600x 1200x.

System specs & notes to would be helpers. (again, thanks for any input

Case: Alienware A-51 case - its fine for my needs, plenty of room & air and will probably use it for the new build.

Power: The original crapped out so I have a Corsair 750W PSU based on a lot of reviews I think it will be fine for the new build.

CPU: Aah, a chink in the armor. P4 3.40 Ghz, I'd like to drop this chip like genital warts. Slow, loud stock fan and (I believe) one of the main problems (relatively speaking, hahaha)

Mobo: Intel D925xcv. I know its old crap, but its been like an old dog that keeps finding its way back to your house after you 'lose' it 30 miles away- you keep it until dead. I'd like to keep the mobo because of my imminent upgrade- if 9 months could be considered imminent, and because I would have to ditch my lovely....

RAM: 2 x 512mb PC DDR2-4300 (266Mhz) samsung crap and 2 x 1GB G Skill PC DDR2-4300 (also 266Mhz). So I have 3 gigs of outdated RAM that is going to bonfire heaven soon, very soon... but I don't want to buy more now if i can keep the mobo.

GPU: I replaced the 6800GT last year with a Raedon HD 4670 1024mb 1319 Mhz. I figure this card will hang around for a little bit but we'll see.

Harddrives: Aah, I remember when 2x160 GB Seagate Barracuda SATA 7200rpm 8MB buffer in raid 0 was fast.... I think a gallon of gas was 1 dollar back then.

Stuff I'm keeping for now, but FYI:
1. Dell 2001 FP 20' monitor - 1600x-1200x as mentioned earlier
2. Logitech MX 1000 mouse
3. Saitek keyboard
4. Logitech speakers (audio controller is on the motherboard)
5. 32 bit Windows 7 OS

Ok, whew. Well I gotta get the little guys ready for hockey practice so I would greatly appreciate any constructive (or deconstructive) feedback and some frugal choices if you can come up with any. Thanks again for just being you!

[David M]

There is not a whole lot you can do to a computer that is few generations old. It cannot be forced to run anywhere near as fast as a new computer. Sometimes it is better to do nothing than to throw money into a sinkhole only to obtain minimal results.

We see this quite a few people with a computer that is three generations old or older trying to Frankenstein in old parts in to a new rig to save money. For older computers sometimes the best you can do is to maximize the amount of RAM it can take and to buy a larger hard drive. Replacing the CPU with what will probably only be a slightly faster compatible CPU is a waste of money. So is throwing more RAM at the old computer. A new older CPU and the older style RAM will not be compatible with a new rig.

Probably just keep the computer you have in tact for other uses, like running Linux or for giving to the kids to play simple games, and build a new rig which can run the newest software.

Your PSU is fine for a new rig with one graphics card, and likely two cards.

Your case will be okay IF Alien followed the ATX standard.

[glc]

Bottom line - the motherboard is already maxed out. It won't take a better processor. More than 3 gigs of ram with a 32 bit OS is a waste and you don't really need more.

What you need is a stronger video card. A 4670 is a low end card. Spend your money on a 6870. You will be able to use that and the PSU as the foundation to your new computer.

You could also get a Western Digital Black hard drive if you are running out of space. I'll run one of those over anything in RAID any day.

[brettitonius]

Do you think this would make any difference to get a dual core chip? Its a $50 upgrade but I wonder if I might squeeze a few more frame rates out of my old system..

Newegg.com - Intel Celeron E3400 Wolfdale 2.6GHz 1MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80571E3400

[glc]

Did you miss what I posted?

Bottom line - the motherboard is already maxed out. It won't take a better processor.

Processor Support List (clickable link)

I wonder if I might squeeze a few more frame rates out of my old system.

Yes........with a new VIDEO CARD.

What you need is a stronger video card. A 4670 is a low end card.

Did you miss that too?

[brettitonius]

Okay okay!

Well, I guess its all over. My current card is the newest item in the rig, so I guess I will heed the advice that I kinda knew was on the wall and just save my duckets for a total new build.

One final question... In David's response he mentioned if my case followed ATX protocol. For a schlep like me, how can one tell if my case is the proper standard and be able to recycle it for the new build?

[glc]

The Area 51 case is standard ATX. You can reuse it with no problem.

You know, you can get a strong video card NOW, put it in, and then reuse it in your new build........(I think you missed that too)

[brettitonius]

I appreciate the feedback, no I did not miss it I just hadn't responded to it specifically yet. Perhaps you can shed some light on this, but I replaced a geforce 6800GT last year with the 4670 card thinking I would get a decent upgrade. In all honesty I was disappointed with the 4670 as many of my - older- games still seem to have performance issues, CTDs and general slowness. I have been wondering if its the cpu bottlenecking the rig- or if the 4670 just isn't the upgrade I thought it would be.

Last dumb question. Suppose I plunk down the $250 and pick up a 6750 card, do you think there is significant upgrade to games due to the old cpu, mobo, ram etc- and for the new rig (when I build it) would a 6750 SLI be considered a good return on investment in the video category?

Thanks again for your knowledge. I appreciate it.

[Jbc223456]

Glc or David will have to help you out on the first part of the slowness, etc.. But I can chip in on saying that computer games are not very cpu reliant. It is the video card that handles most of the graphics, fps, etc. Therefore with a much better video card, you would definitely see an improvment to those games above.

For a decent video card, you could spend $240 right now on a 6780 (I'm getting a HIS 6780 for $240 for my soon to be built computer) and it would be a great improvement now, and later in your new rig. Honestly, unless you are going to want to run dual monitors or run the newest games in the highest fps, a single 6780 (equivalent to the GTX 470) would pretty much satisfy your every need.

[glc]

The 4670 wasn't the upgrade you thought it was - yes, it's more powerful than a 6800GT, but it only has 128 bit memory. You can buy one now for $50 after rebate.

What I would recommend for you now is a Nvidia GTX460 1gb.

Newegg.com - ASUS ENGTX460 DirectCU TOP/2DI/1GD5 GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

Yes, you could SLI another one and have some real power when you build the new system. That particular card I linked is factory overclocked and gets stellar reviews.

The reason I'm leading you back to Nvidia is this:

I was disappointed with the 4670 as many of my - older- games still seem to have performance issues, CTDs and general slowness.

You may be running some games that really prefer Nvidia.

[Nikon]

well glc, here is another stellar review of that card, as it is the exact one i put in my new rig.

crysis on high (not highest sadly) settings @ 1920x1080 = 45-60fps very smooth.
its just a great card, i cant even begin to express my satifaction of this card.

i agree that the only logical place to invest money in this rig would be a videocard that can be moved to the new rig once it has arrived. plus you will 'save' money by doing it this way, as the upgrade will not be 'locked in' to the older computer the way a cpu or ram would be.

[rwest]

I don't know why or even explain it if I wanted too, but my 4670 was horrible under XP. When I loaded Win 7(64bit), the performance of my HIS 4670 jumped tremendously. I didn't meaure it, but I saw a huge difference under Win 7, especially when playing Oblivion.

[brettitonius]

Thanks for the card suggestion glc. Just curious if the GTX 465 is in any way superior to the card you stipulated. They seem to be in the same price range and I saw one with a decent rebate. Any opinion?

Newegg.com - Palit NE5TX465F1002 GeForce GTX 465 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

[glc]

No, the 465 was a dud. The 460 1gb is actually a bit stronger, and it uses a lot less power and runs cooler. The 465 was the 1st generation "Fermi" and the 460 is 2nd generation. The next step "up" for Nvidia is the GTX 470. It's a strong card but it too is a hot power hog. The only 500 series that's out so far is the 580, and it's $550.

[brettitonius]

Thanks so much glc. Sometimes I wonder if I should even bother to read the reviews on Newegg sometimes. You gotta wonder why a 465 would be older gen than a 460..(?) the naming schemes by both Nvidia and ATI is poop.

Anyway I'm ordering the 460 card you recommended today so again I appreciate your help and I'll be back when it comes time for the new cpu/mobo/ram upgrade. Thanks again!!

Brett

Walla Walla, WA

[Nikon]

nvidia has a habbit of releasing top end hardware from the top down. the 480 came out, then the 470, the 465, and then the 460.

the 460 is based on the 2nd generation fermi which is much cooler running and less power hungry, and imo if they unlocked the whole thing, would be better than a 480. the 1gb gtx 460 is what you want.

[brettitonius]

Thanks Nikon- yup, I'm sold (your commission checks are in the mail ).
I just ordered that card from newegg for $211 plus a free flight sim game ??? Whatever- still get a $10 rebate too.

I'm expecting the new card to run Rome TW and its ilk at nice speed- especially considering my max res is 1600 x 1200.

Thanks again to you guys for the advice and tips. This website rocks

[brettitonius]

Hey guys, while I'm waiting on my new video card in the mail- now that I've been browsing in here for a week or so I've kinda gotten that bug that I want to upgrade my whole system a little faster than I originally intended. With hopefully some good black Friday deals coming down the pipeline, I'd like to piece together a new CPU mobo combo.

Since my system is currently DDR2 based- I assume that with an i5 compatible mobo I will also need to buy DDR3 ram. If I'm using the PC strictly for gaming and internet surf, I thought the i5-760 would be sufficient and last a while. Any suggestion on a better chip for this linear purpose? I'd like to also start shopping for a new harddrive so I can say goodbye to old school seagate barracuda.

Do you think there is a good value in the cpu/mobo/ram combos on newegg or better to just find individual deals and put together myself?

[David M]

i-5's can run with DDR2 or DDR3 RAM. What matters is which RAM the manufacturer designed to run with whichever board you choose.

Yes, sometimes Newegg does have some good combination deals. I would check both the combination deals and look at the individual purchases.

[glc]

To run an i5, I'd recommend a P55 chipset, and that will be DDR3. The specific board I recommend is an Asus P7P55D-E Pro. Stick with Corsair, Crucial, Kingston, or A-Data ram.

[brettitonius]

I think I'm going to go with the Asus mobo you recommended with some DDR3 memory and the i5-760 chip. I have one more question for you.

I'd like to get some sort of card that I can use to watch cable tv thru my pc. I want to run a coax cable from the wall into the pc so my wife can watch tv on the monitor. Does somebody make something like that with a remote control and such?

I guess it would be some sort of tv tuner card. Could I put a card like that on the mobo you suggested next to my 460 GTX and just run the cable into my pc?

Thanks for any feedback...

[glc]

That's exactly what you want to do. However, depending on your cable system, you may need to get another converter box.

Newegg.com - Computer Hardware,Video Cards & Video Devices,TV Tuners & Video Devices,TV Tuner Card

[brettitonius]

Ok, after browsing through the link you provided I think I'm going backwards and not forwards.

My current monitor is a Dell 2001FP @ 1600 x 1200, I think I may be able to kill 2 birds with one stone because I wanted to eventually get into the higher resolutions for games etc.

After reading a sample of reviews for the tv tuner pci cards- there's a lot of hit and miss as far as quality, and the last thing I want to do is buy something that is a)junk or b)obsolete. I'm not sure if my cable is analog or digital or upconverted analog so instead of spending $90+ for a decent tv card, I'm leaning toward something like this so I can really use the potential of my new GPU and give the wife another tv to watch. What do you think?

Sceptre 24" 1080p LCD HDTV X240BC-FHD Newegg.com - Sceptre 24" 1080p LCD HDTV X240BC-FHD

edit: the HDTV is only for the games as I would have to get another cable box to watch tv in HD, which I'm not paying for.

[glc]

A TV is fine for using as a monitor - but I'd recommend something other than a Sceptre. I've seen some quality, reliability, and nonsupport issues with them.

For a TV, why don't we wait just a bit and see what Black Friday brings?