Need to design a Shuttle like computer.

[David M]

For work, I am upgrading my chart software to this...
Nobeltec Navigation - Admiral 10

The computer I am using now for my chart software will be inadequate to run the new software.

The new computer needs to fit inside a relatively tight cabinet therefore a Shuttle like computer is a necessity.
Shuttle XPC Barebone

It will not be used for anything except for running this software.

First, I was wondering, are the Shuttles called mini-ATX or micro-ATX form factors?

There really is no budget for the build. I just need a computer that is good enough to run the software. I am guessing somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000. If the price needs to be higher than that's fine.

What I would like to have is an Intel i-5 processor, a P-55 chipset and 4 gigs of Corsair 1333 RAM. I plan on purchasing a Western Digital Caviar Black WD6402AAEX 640GB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache. The software is Windows 7 64 compatible.

The motherboard, graphics card, PSU and case I am not sure about.

This computer must be extremely reliable, that's the most important thing here.

[jdeb]

I think the shuttles are micro atx

David, this is what I would build.

Here is something to think about. The intel board is very fast out of the box, no need to tweak.

Comes in around 620.00 without OS and input devices.

SILVERSTONE Sugo Series SG05BB-450
Newegg.com - SILVERSTONE Sugo Series SG05BB-450 ALL Black Plastic / SECC Mini-ITX Desktop Computer Case with SFX 450W 80+ Bronze Certified / Single +12V rail Power Supply

Intel BOXDH57JG LGA 1156
Newegg.com - Intel BOXDH57JG LGA 1156 Intel H57 HDMI Mini ITX Intel Motherboard

Intel Core i5-650 Clarkdale 3.2GHz
Newegg.com - Intel Core i5-650 Clarkdale 3.2GHz 4MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80616I5650

Crucial 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
Newegg.com - Crucial 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model CT2KIT25664BA1339

Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS
Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

LITE-ON Black 8X DVD+R Slim DVD
Newegg.com - LITE-ON Black 8X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 6X DVD+R DL 8X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 5X DVD-RAM 8X DVD-ROM 24X CD-R 24X CD-RW 24X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA DVD Burner - CD / DVD Burners

StarTech SLSATAF20 20in Slimline SATA Female to SATA with LP4 Power Cable Adapter
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812200374

[glc]

Will this case fit?

Newegg.com - Thermaltake Black SECC Japanese steel LANBOX Lite VF6000BNS Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case

That case supports a standard ATX power supply and a micro-ATX motherboard. Do you really need a video card for this software? I'd use a H55 motherboard and a Clarkdale i5 and use the onboard video.

Height
11.80"
Width
9.10"
Depth
16.90"

[jdeb]

If he wants a smaller footprint then the mini itx is the way to go. The board I recommended is very fast and very stable. The bios out of the box is fine for the cpu but doesn't have a huge array of features. the case sports a 120mm fan which keeps everything nice and cool as the chipset tends to run a little warmer.

10.87" x 6.93" x 8.74"

[David M]

George, thanks. Unfortunately, I will not be able to fit the case you listed into the cabinet. The vertical opening is less than 11.8 inches tall. I need to go down to the boat and get an exact measurement which I will post here.


I saw the video requirements for the software and do not know if an onboard graphics chip is sufficient. I prefer to not get the minimum specifications but get closer to or slightly above the preferred specifications.

Graphics specifications for software...
http://cms.nobeltec.com/CMS/Products...uirements.aspx

The graphics processor will be driving two 1024 x 768 monitors. So whichever GPU is chosen, it needs to have two DVI or VGA ports.

The other Shuttle computer I have on the boat measures 6.75" wide by 5.75" tall by 12.5" inches deep. Depth is not really a concern, the cabinet has plenty of depth.

JDEB, thanks, your answers create a few more questions. How many form factors smaller than ATX are there? Which smaller form factor has the most motherboards and power supplies to choose from? Is an H57 chipset suitable for this software?


Parts list so far....
OS, Already have academic institution version of Windows 7 64.

RAM, CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-251-_-Product

Hard drive, Western Digital Caviar Black WD6402AAEX 640GB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-544-_-Product

Power supply,

Motherboard,

Graphics card (if necessary),

Optical drive,

Case,

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by David M I saw the video requirements for the software and am not certain if an onboard graphics chip is sufficient. I prefer to not get the minimum specifications but closer to or slightly above the preferred specifications. Graphics specifications for software...

The CPU / chipset I recommended will work fine for graphics, the good news is you can add a discrete card to the board if you want and still keep the same footprint. Keep in mind this integrated GPU is not a gaming GPU but is still powerful and meets the requirements. Here is an interesting article
Intel Core i5-661: Clarkdale Rings The Death Knell Of Core 2 : Introduction

If I were to add a card, this would do fine but I don't think it is needed
Newegg.com - ASUS EN210 SILENT/DI/1GD2(LP) GeForce 210 1GB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Low Profile Ready Video Card

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by David M George, thanks. Unfortunately, I will not be able to fit the case you listed at 11.8 inches tall. I saw the video requirements for the software and do not know if an onboard graphics chip is sufficient. I prefer to not get the minimum specifications but get closer to or slightly above the preferred specifications. Graphics specifications for software... Minimum System Requirements The graphics processor will be driving two 1024 x 768 monitors. So whichever GPU is chosen, it needs to have two DVI or VGA ports. The other Shuttle computer I have on the boat measures 6.75" wide x 5.75" tall by 12.5" inches deep. Depth is not really a concern, the cabinet has plenty of depth. JDEB, thanks, your answers create a few more questions. How many form factors smaller than ATX are there? Which smaller form factor has the most motherboards and power supplies to choose from? Is an H57 chipset suitable for this software?

Your welcome David. Here is a chart for form factors. the smallest you can use with this software would be the MiniItx. There a quite few MiniDTX coming out with the Atom CPU's but they are a little bigger than the mini itx.
Google Image Result for http://www.esis.com.au/Adv1CPU/Form_factor_Diagram.png

I chose that case because of the airflow design and excellent power supply. It is rather difficult to match a power supplyless case with a mini ITX board though, I tend to stay with the ones that use full size ATX PS or SFX. The mini itx is a whole different arena, if you require a smaller case than the one I proposed, let me know because it will require a little more time. A good example is the one in my signature which I will be selling in a week or so. It uses a morex case which is certified for that intel board. The power supply for the case is only 150w and a totally different form factor but the design the customer wanted was a all in one pc design. The case mounts to the back of the monitor. Another note is that I also added a low profile CPU cooler (didn't need though).

The H57 is a great chipset for what you require. I cut and pasted from the link I gave you above... H55 and H57 are differentiated in that they support Intel’s HD Graphics core with a protected audio and video path—needed to support HDCP and bitstream high-def audio. This PAVP 1.5, as it’s called in the chart, is a component of the management engine built into both chipsets. P55 doesn’t have it, which makes sense since it’s a discrete graphics-only platform. H55 offers 12 USB 2.0 ports, six SATA 3 Gb/s ports, and six lanes of 2.5 GT/s PCI Express 2.0, while H57 serves up 14 USB 2.0 ports, six SATA 3 Gb/s ports, and eight lanes of 2.5 GT/s PCI Express 2.0 connectivity. Both offer four legacy PCI slots, too. From there, the two chipset are identical, except that H57 offers Intel Rapid Storage Technology

David, What is the actual size you need?

[glc]

How about this guy, Dave?

Newegg.com - Antec NSK1380 Black/ Silver Steel MicroATX Cube Computer Case 350W Power Supply

Dimensions(L x W x H)
13.20" x 10.60" x 7.90"

I'm not trying to blow you off, jdeb - but in the long run, if possible, I really prefer micro-ATX to mini-ITX.

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by glc How about this guy, Dave? Newegg.com - Antec NSK1380 Black/ Silver Steel MicroATX Cube Computer Case 350W Power Supply Dimensions(L x W x H) 13.20" x 10.60" x 7.90" I'm not trying to blow you off, jdeb - but in the long run, if possible, I really prefer micro-ATX to mini-ITX.

I know George, I know you do not like Intel boards and form factors other than ATX. The power supply's in those have a bad history George, beside if I recall correctly, they are specific to that case. I am matching the software requirement, and footprint. You can always find good SFX power supply's as well.

[David M]

Thanks, this is more complex than I thought it would be.

I just measured the Shuttles motherboard PCB which measures out to 216mm x 152mm (8.5 inches x 6 inches), which must be their unique proprietary board since it matches none of the form factors that you linked. So at this point I am going to rule out buying a Shuttle since it appears their computers are proprietary and I am not interested in going down the road of having to buy proprietary parts when something fails or needs upgrading.

I won't need the smaller form that fits the Atom processor.

So lets go from there...

Which is a good smaller form factor to go with? Which one is most popular? Does Asus make smaller boards like this?

I like the idea of having a motherboard with onboard video but which also has a graphics card slot just in case I need to add one.


Updated parts list....

Graphics card, ASUS EN210 SILENT/DI/1GD2(LP) GeForce 210 1GB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Low Profile Ready Video Card
Newegg.com - ASUS EN210 SILENT/DI/1GD2(LP) GeForce 210 1GB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Low Profile Ready Video Card

Motherboard,

Case, I still need to measure the maximum allowable height.

OS, Windows 7 64 bit.

RAM, CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-251-_-Product

Hard drive, Western Digital Caviar Black WD6402AAEX 640GB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-544-_-Product

PSU,

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by David M Thanks, this is more complex than I thought. I just measured the Shuttles PCB which measures out to 216mm x 152mm (8.5 inches x 6 inches), which must be their unique proprietary board since it matches none of the form factors that you linked. The board you listed sounds fine. It will fit. I won't need the smaller form that fits the Atom processor. So lets go from there... I like the idea of having a motherboard with a card slot just in case I need to add one. I assume the PSU will be up to the task of driving the card you posted. Updated parts list.... Graphics card, ASUS EN210 SILENT/DI/1GD2(LP) GeForce 210 1GB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Low Profile Ready Video Card Newegg.com - ASUS EN210 SILENT/DI/1GD2(LP) GeForce 210 1GB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Low Profile Ready Video Card Motherboard, OS, Already have academic institution version of Windows 7 64. RAM, CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-251-_-Product Hard drive, Western Digital Caviar Black WD6402AAEX 640GB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-544-_-Product PSU, Case,

Right, it is more complex and I have built a quite a few of them. The case is always the hardest thing. So what are you saying? You are going to buy a Shuttle barebone? What is your concern with the Intel board or items I am recommending? I am not sure which direction you want to take this. Still wondering the dimensions you need or the opening it is going into...

[David M]

Sorry, I just posted more which will answer one of your questions. I'm heading to the boat right now to get the exact case max height dimensions.

Edit: 7.25 inches is the magic number. If I did not have this height limitation I would just build a regular ATX computer.

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by David M Sorry, I just posted more which will answer one of your questions. I'm heading to the boat right now to get the exact case max height dimensions. Edit: 7.25 inches is the magic number. If I did not have this height limitation I would just build a regular ATX computer.

no width or depth?

Newegg.com - HTPC / Media Center Cases

[David M]

No width or depth limitation...not really. Cabinet width is around 18 inches and depth is about 30 inches.

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by David M No width or depth limitation...not really. Cabinet width is around 18 inches and depth is about 30 inches.

well that was a waste of time... You can pick out one of those silverstone cases in the link above (HTPC). Take your pick of the plethora of microatx boards now. or ATX for that matter.

Newegg.com - SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum / Steel LC13B-E ATX Media Center / HTPC Case

[glc]

Newegg.com - Antec New Solution NSK2480 Black/Silver 0.8mm cold-rolled steel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 380W Power Supply

Dimensions are good (16.30" x 5.50" x 17.50") and it has a 380w Earthwatts PSU.

Newegg.com - ASUS P7H57D-V EVO LGA 1156 Intel H57 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

Supports dual monitors with a Clarkdale. It has 1 VGA, 1 DVI, and 1 HDMI.

This case might fit, then you could use a full ATX board and PSU. Price is right and Compucase cases are decent.

Newegg.com - HEC 7106BB Black 1.0mm Thickness ATX Desktop Computer Case

[quartet-man]

It was interesting reading at least, Jdeb.

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by quartet-man It was interesting reading at least, Jdeb.

right, I felt like it was a conversation with my wife its all good, I was glad he didn't want to go smaller, that's when it gets real tough.

[David M]

My apologies. I try not to waste anyone's time here.

I initially said a Shuttle like computer because I knew it would fit inside the cabinet. I was trying to keep things simple. Since that did not work so well, here is the full blown description of the space and opening I am trying to fit a computer case through and into.

The cabinet has this Furuno navigation computer already in it....
http://www.boatingyachting.com/store...trol-unit.html

The Furuno computer is in the right hand side of the cabinet. In order to get another computer in there you have to slide it in straight and then turn it to the left diagonally and then push it straight back. The PC computer on the left that is already in there is one of those really old beige cases that are flat and wide and is something one really could put on a desk 20 years ago. It barely fits in the cabinet limited by its width. It looks like this but its height and width looks less than this one. Google Image Result for http://www.gamingnexus.com/Screenshots/Article/1/1.jpg

I will get the exact dimensions of the beige PC computer today. That will be the maximum width of whichever case that will fit.

[glc]

So, will that Antec 2480 fit or not? If not, it's back to mini-ITX.

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by David M Sorry. I initially said a Shuttle like computer because I knew it would fit inside the cabinet. I was trying to keep things simple. Since that did not work so well, here is the full blown description of the space and opening I am trying to fit a computer case through and into. The cabinet has this navigation computer already in it.... Google Image Result for http://www.overtons.com/assets/images/products2/large/150119_L1.jpg This computer is in the right hand side of the cabinet. In order to get another computer in there you have to slide it in straight and then turn it to the left diagonally and then push it back. The nav computer on the left that is already in there is one of those really old beige cases that are flat and wide and are something one really could put on a desk 20 years ago. It barely fits in the cabinet limited by its width. It looks like this but its height and width looks less than this one. Google Image Result for http://www.gamingnexus.com/Screenshots/Article/1/1.jpg I will get the exact dimensions of the beige computer today. That will be the maximum width of whichever case I choose.

It's all good David, we are just having a little fun with yah

[David M]

Originally Posted by jdeb It's all good David, we are just having a little fun with yah

No problem, I dish it out to others in here....just ask George.

Edit: the beige PC measures 12.75 inches x 4 inches. Therefore the maximum width of whichever case I pick cannot be taller than 7.25 inches x 12.74 inches.