How much can I salvage? First build

[alvehyanna]

I bought an Alienware full tower rig about 6 years ago. Got a smoking deal at the time (about $500 off) which made it only slighlty more than DIY.

I need a new machine now however. Over the years I've had to turn down from max settings to minimum (with the current patch).

I want to know 1) how much can I reasonably salvage and 2) what would people recommend for hardware to make the most of a 6 year old case.

I mostly hardcore raid in WoW and do flash, build websites and use photoshop. I play the ocassional FPS, but not often.

I've worked on my machine a number of times. Upgraded the graphics cards, switched from IDE primary to SATA primary drive. So I'm comfortable plugging and unpluging things and putting cables in good places.

Case: Alieanware ATX full size tower (pretty sure atx, not posative)
MB: Intell D875PBZ
Processor: P4 3.0 Ghz HT (shows up a x2, not sure its a true dual though)
RAM: 3 GB (I'll have to report back on speed by checking bios)
HD: 500gb Seagate SATAII 8gb cache (less than 6 months old)
Vid card: AGP....nuff said..it has to go....
DVD/CD-RW drive: Sony 52xCD/16xDVD
Power supply: 450W I think..its 6 years old so figure I'll replace, also old form factor 4pin.
extras: Sound Blaster Audiology 2
floppy drive
USB pots built into case at front, not 2.0 supported I think

No custom cooling. Fans are getting noisy. There are two small up front that pull and 3 in back that push.

I figure...i

To save:
Case
DVD/CD drive
Hardrive

is that it?

Then I would need...
Powersupply
Ram (6-8GM depending on board)
Vid card
Mother board
processor
new fans

and yes, the case has a top mounted power supply. Would a case with only small fans, 2 front 3 rear and one small side have even air flow and cooling for today's processors?

I could get by with onboard audio I think. I'm guessing it is alot better than it was 6 years ago.

I'd love to do a X58 socket on something like a ASUS sabertooth and just go straight to the top. But not sure I can do that without sacrificing too much in the RAM or vid card department...need to say under $1000 and the more the better.

I'd be okay with an AMD quad core as well. I'm not found of boards with onboard video that I will just be disabling, that never made sense to me.

Fianlly, and sorry for so many questions..would a micro ATX board work? how would I tell if i can mount one inside?

Thanks in advance. I know I'm asking for some time here and I really appreciate it.

[David M]

I think that if you are looking to build a modern and fast computer that none of the parts except for perhaps the case are usable. The technology has changed significantly in six years. Even the old 450 watt PSU is less than what the faster graphics cards require now.

I would keep the old computer in tact and put it to another use. At least this way it is still good for something. I would save all your old files, wipe the drive and reload the OS to give the old workhorse a fresh start. Put it out to pasture doing easier jobs. Perhaps turn it into a Linux machine or let someone else use it for browsing the internet? Perhaps use it for playing media in another part of the house?

I have an old computer in the garage simply for playing MP3's and accessing Pandora Radio.

[flanzig1]

The HD is reuseable but everything else is outdated for today's motherboards.
A microATX mobo will work fine in a tower case. You probably will need to rearrange the stand-offs to fit the uATX.

[alvehyanna]

Thanks, that's kind of what I thought. I was hoping maybe the case might buy me the room to upgrade a few things..but yeah... :-(

I also redo my drives from the ground up every 12-18 months. nothing runs faster like a fresh install...at least that's what I found with XP

[glc]

I just recommended a gaming build in another thread that comes in at around $1100 - which would be just over $1000 without the case. Does not include OS.

New Build Questions

[alvehyanna]

Need to keep this under $1000.

Mid-tier gaming (MMOs: WoW, Oblivion, Dragon Age) and light FPS (ocassional tom clancy or other varients - but rarely.

Also do web design, flash and some photoshop work.

My machine was top of the line like 6years ago and its time to put it to pasture since I know have to run things on minimum settings just to get by on raid night.

So here's my shot at a powerful rig on a budget. My biggest fear is if my power supply is enough and can handle crossfire if I go that route later on.

Western Digital Caviar Blue WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive - $69.99

GIGABYTE GV-R577UD-1GD Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card - $139.00 (+$20 rebate)

Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V version 2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified ... - $69.99

Bundle:
Intel Core i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80605I5760
GIGABYTE GA-P55-USB3 LGA 1156 Intel P55 USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Antec Dark Fleet DF-10 Black SECC ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
-bundle: $364.99

Bundle:
CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMX8GX3M4A1600C9
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
- $239 (memory 4 x 2GB @ $129

Think that gets me the basics..I guess I'll need some thermal compond and maybe a cooling system upgrade for the processor and case to keep things moving well.

I'll pick up a basic Sony or Asus DVD/CD drive for $20-30

I dont plan to overclock.

I figure in a year or two, I can get a i7 for that socket and add a second card in crossfire cheap since they will be old tech by that time.

Thanks for any thoughts, ideas and changes. Under 1K is the idea and this is $884

[alvehyanna]

I saw that post, awesome build. If I can wrestle the extra change..I'll do it.

Might have to par a few things down somehow..though I'm not sure where.

Think I took the prosessor and vid card down a few notches.

[David M]

Originally Posted by flanzig1 The HD is reuseable but everything else is outdated for today's motherboards. A microATX mobo will work fine in a tower case. You probably will need to rearrange the stand-offs to fit the uATX.

Not meaning to be argumentative, but only if he does not mind having to purchase an IDE to SATA drive adapter so he can fit it to a new board with SATA ports.

[alvehyanna]

The DVD/CD drive is IDE, but the HDD is Sata II. As old as that board is, it has Sata.

It was fun having a board that had bios barely out of beta....

[glc]

Threads merged, please keep all posts on one build in one thread. Thank you.

Get a SATA 6.0 WD Black. Get the Asus P7P55D Pro or Deluxe with the U3S6 addon card. If you want 8gb ram, get a 4gb x 2 kit, not 4 modules. Stick to Asus, Diamond, or HIS for Radeon cards. Look at the 6850 for best performance for the price. You will not need a cooling upgrade for the processor. If you want to Crossfire, get a Corsair TX750.

[alvehyanna]

Thanks again, and sorry for my missteps. Every board is a bit different.

I'm going to try and build that system you suggested, though its a bit over my price point.

I do have a version of that with an i5 Lynfield 2.8Ghz, 5770 radeon, WD Cav black 3.0, and the LX version of that board (single x12) which gives me enough room to get the OS...comes in at 999.91 with shipping..cant get a whole lot closer to $1000 that that.

But the options the Deluxe board will give me is tempting for the $20 difference.

[glc]

Yes, and you can add the U3S6 card later - and add another 5770 for Crossfire. A quality 650 watt PSU can handle 2 of them.

[alvehyanna]

LOL..newegg is all out of those brands for the 6850...I'll check amazon then when I buy in the next few day.

I'm curious about your opinion on Sapphire...My last 3 cards have been by them and new egg has them in stock for the 6850.

I was going to buy a 5770...but I think I'll fork the extra $40 for it, seems worth it.

If I crossfire two of those down the road, is the corsair 650W TX PS going to be enough or do I need to bump that up to a 750W?

Again, many thanks for all your help and time. I feel I've learned a ton and am more up to speed and not stumbling around so much trying to figure this out.

Thanks so much glc and others

[glc]

Sapphire is a quality brand, but they essentially have no end-user support in the US. I would take it over the other brands that are currently available.

I would upgrade to 750 to crossfire 6850's.

[alvehyanna]

So last thing before I buy... you can boot off of the sata6/usb3 PCIe card right?

I know it seems like a silly question, but it's a small detail and I want to make sure all my assumtions are true.

I've never had a drive on a card, so its a new experience for me. Will the Bios detect it?

[glc]

Yes, you can boot from it. I don't know how it interacts with the bios though.

[alvehyanna]

Also..here is my cart right now...just need to get the sata/usb card from somewhere else, or wait for to get to have it in a few days


Case:
COOLER MASTER RC-692-KKN2 CM690 II Advanced Black Steel ATX Mid
MB:
ASUS P7P55D Deluxe LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard
CPU:
Intel Core i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Desktop
Memory:
CORSAIR XMS 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMX8GX3M2A1600C9
GPU:
HIS H685F1GD Radeon HD 6850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity
PSU:
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply
OS:
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders
HDrive:
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6402AAEX 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Optical:
Sony Optiarc CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model AD-7260S-0B

$1086

a bit over budget, but feels like a nice rig with room to grow (crossfire, i7, etc)

Any last thoughts? :-) This should be fun.

I was reading some people were overclocking this processor to 4.0Ghz stable..I'm guessing I'd need some after-market cooling to take it much past 3.0 or 3.1. Never overclocked before so I'll have to do some major reading before I jump into it.

EDIT: It is also amazing how much you save when you build. I knew it was cheaper - but this sysyem built on 'gaming pc' sites is about $350 to $600 more

EDIT2: usb3/sata6 is in stock at newegg right now..went ahead and added that and ordered it. Also changed to retai lversion of Win7...read of some people buying it who aren't system resalers and having liscensing issues...ugg..$200 over limit but all good.

I went into sataIII (which I had planned to do as an upgrade later) cause the $20 for the drive upgrade and $24 for the card just seemed like a good idea for the money. Also, if I want to try SSD, I can make the Cavier into a storage drive.

[alvehyanna]

Seperate post for this.

I want to really thank GLC for all your help and advice. I really do appreciate your giving your time to a complete stranger. I will do my best to return what I can to the community..mainly by not going off topic or confussing people :-)

[glc]

You wasted your money buying retail Windows. OEM is all you need. YOU are the system builder and there is no licensing issue. ALL reviews must be taken with a grain of salt.

[alvehyanna]

Guess when I saw that and the part of the description that said it was for "systems intended for resale and can't be transfered to another computer" I got a bit jumpy for no reason. :-( live and learn I guess

[alvehyanna]

Built my machine and finished it today. Started up and went off without any major problems. The build it yourself article here was very helpful, but also somewhat out of date in areas. It, combined with the manuals, gave me the info I needed to do it well.

I wanted to offer some feedback on the pieces recommended and how it all fit together and worked out.

Case: COOLER MASTER RC-692-KKN2 CM690 II Advanced Black Steel ATX Mid
It feels big for a mid-tower. Actually it's bigger than my wife's midtower buy several inches but still smaller than my old alienware case - but only by a few inches.
Lots of creative ways to use cable management in this case. Cables from the front/top ports panel are well labeled. They give you lots of extras and power adapters (all the fans are standard 3 pin, but have 4 pin adapters on them) Sturdy case. Love the ABS rubber feet. Also love the veritcal mount above the PCI slots for things that use the PCI slot mounts, but aren't cards. Very nice if you are getting a board that has an extra ports without taking up a slot for PCI card access. For the price, a few extra fans to put in the side panels would be nice, and few good places for stickers, lol...but I'm knit picking now. Oh, and it has a top hot-mount sata spot w/power. Didn't see that mentioned on newegg, but might of missed it. 4.5/5

MB:
ASUS P7P55D Deluxe LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard
It's a beast. I mean from the time you open the box, to flipping through the manual, it's clear this board means business. It's FAR more of a motherboard that my PC skills right now will get out of it. Which I love. There will be a learning-curve with this one and I love that (as far as having millions of things to mess with). The placement of the "remote" socket on the MB for the on-the-fly overcloaking control is a bitch unless you have female size hands. But the fact it has this feature more than makes up for the annoyance that is installing it. Everything is fairly well placed on the MB. I wish the port that has 6 sata spots faced up insted of sideways. 5/5

CPU:
Intel Core i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Desktop
Haven't had a chance to play any of my games yet. So far just getting things set up and tons of restarts, seems plenty powerful. Was easy to install. Props to Intell and Asus for that. Down side was the install manual. Just 6 pictures with no words. It never told me to completely unwrap the fan cord from the fan case (it is held down with wire catches. On mine the wire was so tightly wrapped, it prevented the fan from spinning. Just had to unwrap it and loosen it up a bit, but would it of killed them to put those catches lower or just not do it that way? 4/5 but not tested for actual gaming.

Memory:
CORSAIR XMS 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMX8GX3M2A1600C9
No problems, all 8GB showed up without a hitch. Good price and even has heat spreaders 5/5

GPU: x1
HIS H685F1GD Radeon HD 6850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16
Easy install. Solid feel. I used drivers/software from ati website based on past experience with Sapphire and other brands of ATI cards. Haven't tested it on gaming yet.

PSU:
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply
I swear this thing is as heavy as my laptop. It's also a beast. But It will handle my future overclocking and 2 6850s (someday) with room to spare, so it was worth the extra cost. It was a bit confusing because there was no 120/220 switch (it auto selects). Very quiet. I wish the lines were modular. I'm using only 1/2 of the lines right now so I have to store the others in places out of the way that doesn't disturb airflow. Thankful the drive bays worked well for this and my front case fan was mounted high enough in the drive bay for this to not effect airflow. Velvet bag it comes in is overkill, but when you buy top gear it's to be expected. 4.5/5

HDrive:
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6402AAEX 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Haven't installed sata6 card yet so can't comment on performance yet.

Optical:
Sony Optiarc CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model AD-7260S-0B
Was a bit noisy during OS install. But after that all other discs were pretty quiet. 4/5 and hoping it doesn't get noising with other DVDs. Will report back.

Over all, these pieces fit very well together and can make a nice rig. I'd buy ever one of these pieces again in a heart beat, even after going over budget (Didn't really need sata6, a 750W PSU, overspend on OS, but I did - and in the case of the sata and PSU, I now have room to grow.

Again, much thanks to glc, his recommendations were on the money. I'll break it in this weekend and next and report back.

[quartet-man]

Originally Posted by alvehyanna Guess when I saw that and the part of the description that said it was for "systems intended for resale and can't be transfered to another computer" I got a bit jumpy for no reason. :-( live and learn I guess

You could've built it and sold it to yourself.

[alvehyanna]

lol, thats funny

I've gotten to play on it. It runs wow on max settings with a hefty addon base (auctioneer, gather w/ hud, bartender, xperl, recount, omen) beautifully. 150fps+...but I leave vsync on and it always at 60fps. No matter what. Havent done a 25man raid yet...but I have faith.

[David M]

Many monitors are incapable of refreshing at greater than 60 FPS. 60 FPS is an excellent frame rate. Your eyes and brain cannot really see any difference above that anyway. When I am turning up settings on a game, my goal is to not go under 60 FPS. Are you using Fraps to verify this?

Vertical synchronization (Vsync) is only useful when you are seeing tearing which are little horizontal lines. Leave it off otherwise. It prevents your monitor from displaying partial frames in case you are having that problem.