Glad I found this forum

[bigsully]

Very nice and helpful forum you guys have here!

I'm usually a do-it-myself type of guy, but I have EXTREMELY limited computer technical experience. I've been wanting to attempt my own build for several years now. I even have a beast of an ATX/E-ATX/BTX CMStacker 830 aluminum case (cream of the crop back then) I purchased about 4 or 5 years ago (I think about $180 or so) and never used, cause I chickened out, haha . Back then I had dreams of building a super multi mon monster. So the stacker just collected dust, but still looks a real beauty sitting in the corner. I'm not sure you can even buy these any more, except used, or with highly customized and very expensive paint jobs on them. It seems things are getting smaller again.

Now it comes time to again decide to tackle my own build, or to just buy another pre-built box. So, after researching again, and feeling fairly overwhelmed, I was just about to give in and buy another pre-built box, even though I really didn't really appreciate the offerings at all. When I informed my other half on what I was about to do, I was encouraged and coaxed into reconsidering. After much trepidation, I finally decided to go for it on my own.

My build will be used mostly as a trading comp, multiple real time charts running at same time, heavy stock scans, trading platform windows, live chats/message boards, live data and news wire feeds, etc. I will do little to no gaming, but some personal internet, photo, music, etc. use. I want to get up and running with 1 monitor first and then need to add 2 more shortly after. Prob all 3 used in portrait position, or P-L-P. Maybe even go for the super multi mon monster eventually, hehe.

I wanted to go with AMD-better bang for the buck I think and I tend to like the underdog.

I narrowed MOBO choices down to 2- ASUS and Gigabyte. 2 calls to each manufacturer's customer support made me decide to go with Giga. The first time I called ASUS, the tech was extremely hard to understand. The second time I was requested to leave name and number and they would call back-they didn't. Gigabyte's customer support seemed better and easier to understand/ contact.

So I chose the following components

MOBO Gigabyte 890GX ATX GA-890GPA-UD3H $134 I hope there aren't many/any problems with the 890/850 chipset. This particular board has integrated ATI 4290 graphics on board. Hopefully this can run 1 monitor, doing what I want to do. Later add something like a 5770 card to run 3 monitors in total, one on the 4290, the other 2 on the 5770.
Amazon.com: Gigabyte Socket AM3/AMD 890GX/SATA3&USB3.0/A&V&GbE/ATX Motherboard GA-890GPA-UD3H: Electronics

CPU AMD Phenom II x 4 925 2.8 HDX925WFGMBOX $120 This 1 is the latest C3 stepping, not sure if that's good or bad?? Newegg was out of stock on them, with very few reviews thus far.
Amazon.com: Phenom II X4 925 AM3 45NM 95-Watt 2800 Mhz Box C3 8 MB: Electronics

PSU Corsair CMPSU-650TX $90 less 20 rebate
Amazon.com: Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650-Watt TX Series 80 Plus Certified Power Supply: Electronics

Memory Kingston HyperX 1333 CL7 8gb (4 x 2gb) KHX1333C7D3K4/8GX
Got a great deal from Newegg on these-$100 less 15 coupon + free 2gb USB flash drive
Newegg.com - Kingston HyperX 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 Desktop Memory Model KHX1333C7D3K4/8GX

HDD WD 640GB black SataII 32mb WD6401AALS $65
Amazon.com: Western Digital 640 GB Caviar Black SATA 7200 RPM 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD6401AALS: Electronics

Heat sink/fan Coolermaster Hyper 212 plus RR-BIO-212P-G1 $29
Amazon.com: Cooler Master RR-B10-212P-G1 Hyper 212 Plus 775/1156/1366/AMD/AM2/AM3 Universal Direct Contact Heat-Pipe 120mm Fan CPU Cooler: Electronics

CD/DVD r/w Lite-on IHAS 324-98 $20
Amazon.com: Liteon 24X DVDrw Sata Retail: Electronics

DELL U2211H 21.5" IPS monitor. was on sale for $200, direct from Dell. Have 1, want 2 more.

Windows 7 home premium full retail $180 at Amazon. Went with the retail version ($80 more) cause i suspect I will need Windows/Microsoft support. Plus I bought Kaspersky Internet Security 2011 for 1 year, 3 comps, nearly free - $13 when purchased with windows 7.

Everything purchased at Amazon, with the exception of the memory and arctic silver purchased at Newegg, and the Dell monitor. Everything that I bought at Amazon, i made sure I was buying directly from Amazon and not a third party vendor via Amazon. Be very careful about that as /shipping/returns, etc. won't be the same as direct from Amazon. Amazon direct always beat on price/returns/shipping, etc. and is serious about helping with manufacturer rebates/warranties. Pricing/shipping/return policies usually beat those of even Newegg's.

By the time I found this forum, it was too late to ask for advice before purchasing. I hope I did well enough on my own. All of my components should be here today or tommorrow and I can start my build. I will likely be back here asking questions/looking for solutions-I hope not too much, but my confidence level not too high...... yet anyway....

In the meantime, any advice, tips, comments, suggestions, or even criticisms would be greatly appreciated and welcomed.

THNX
Lou

[David M]

Welcome to PCMech Lou.

I see you have not picked out a graphics card yet.

For what you want to do, bring up real time stock charts on possibly three monitors in the future, I would recommend a graphics card that is Eyefinity capable. It does not have to be a super fast card since you will not be playing computer games.

What is Eyefinity

Most Eyefinity cards have 3 graphics ports. There is one card with 6 ports for up to 6 monitors.
http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt.../overview.aspx

I used to do some day trading where I had a bunch of real time charts up. I definitely could have used three monitors back then where I could easily slide the charts around between monitors.

You can buy good quality 1920 x 1080 monitors for around $200 to $300 now. So now you don't have to feel guilty about buying three or more of them. There are racks you can buy for mounting all those monitors so you only have one stand sitting on your desk.

[birddog_61]

Yep if your not going to be gaming then there is no question go with one of the AMD/ATI cards because Nvidia's offering requires 2 cards to support 3 monitors. When you start talking gaming it becomes a harder choice because you have to take into consideration the performance boost from SLI over a single card.

[David M]

AMD has Crossfire which does the same thing...combines the power of two cards.

[birddog_61]

Originally Posted by David M AMD has Crossfire which does the same thing...combines the power of two cards.

Correct, that's why the choice becomes more difficult because they are on an even playing field when you start talking 2 cards and 3 monitors.

[David M]

This is outside the topic but I do want to correct something hopefully without getting argumentative. Nvidia Surround has not caught up to AMD's Eyefinity in the area of multiple monitors systems with respect to a number of things. It's not even close. To me, it's a pretty obvious choice.

[glc]

When you buy more monitors, if you can't get an exact match you need to get ones with the same native resolution. Otherwise, Eyefinity will not work quite right. I'd also advise you when you get a video card, disable the onboard video and just use the card. If you run 3 monitors off one Eyefinity card, one of the monitors must have a DisplayPort or you will need an active DisplayPort to DVI adapter.

Newegg.com - HIS H577FK1GD Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card w/ Eyefinity

Newegg.com - SAPPHIRE Active DisplayPort Adapter 100924 DisplayPort to DVI Interface

[David M]

There is some debate now on whether or not the DP adapter needs to be active (powered)...but since this is internet debate and nothing seems confirmed, I would go with the powered adapter just to know it is going to work....provided you could not find a monitor with a DP.

[glc]

I'd feel better with an active adapter, it's only what - 26 bucks?

[bigsully]

Thanks for the suggestions and tips guys.

David, thanks for the Eyefinity suggestion/lesson. At first I didn't think it would fit my situation, now I see it has interesting possibilities.

glc, You got me thinking the onboard video might auto disable anyway when a video card is added. Maybe it can then only be used in hybrid crossfireX in tandem with another card, or not at all. The onboard vid is supposed to be hybrid crossfireX capable, but that's something that prob won't really help me. Hmmm. I was gonna use it to power one monitor, with another card to power 2 more. I So maybe the Eyefinity solution will be a good solution for me by powering 3 monitors on it's own, and I doubt hybrid crossfireX and eyefinity will work together.

The 5770 video card you selected is right in the sweet spot for me, 5770 is about what I was thinking 'cept I'm not crazy about rebates, and I hadn't previously considered the Eyefinity capability. How is the HIS brand, ie quality, customer support, RMA, warranty, etc,?

About the adapter, doesn't "active" generally mean powered? I guess powered from the vid card? Hmmm. funny.

I put both items in my shopping cart for now.

I'm eager to get started.

Thanks
Lou

[David M]

It used to be there were problems with running Crossfire and Eyefinity simultaneously but those problems were resolved with a driver upgrade.

Unless you already have a card, all you need is one Eyefinity card to run as many as 6 monitors or three monitors with a typical Eyefinity card. There is a benefit to keeping things simple with graphics cards meaning you want only one card if that will work for you. An Eyefinity setup allows you to slide windows around as if your monitors are all one giant monitor.

An active display port adapter is powered through its USB connector.

[glc]

HIS is one of our recommended brands, along with Asus and Diamond. HIS is known for their innovative cooling solutions.

[bigsully]

Good news. Got everything last night, everything except Arctic silver, I ordered it late as an afterthought. Should be here today. Assembled what I could without, and getting familiar with everything else.

Gigabyte board sent is the latest 2.1 revision. Seems well made and sturdy. The blue gigabyte heatsinks look really purty with the blue and chrome Hyper-X. I mentiontioned that to my other half, when I introduced my Mother to her, and she thought me nutzz, hehe.

A few questions;
1) About the CM heat sink; I can actually very easily feel the gaps in the the bottom block where copper tubes meet aluminum. i guess this is to be expected when you take round copper tubes, run 'em through a block of aluminum, and then grind 'em down flat. Hmmm. Probably not much thickness left on those tubes either. Anyway I was gonna wait and use arctic silver instead of whatever CM sent with the HS. Now I'm kind of having second thoughts. Not sure if Arctic silver is designed for filling gaps like that, and maybe the CM stuff is. The Hyper 212 plus is a highly popular one, so I guess no serious problems with it and it seems to work very well according to what I read. What do I do? I mean which do I use, AS or CM goo?? BTW that cooler is really tall. I might have 1/8" clearance to slide my MOBO tray back in. That's in my huge case, I wonder how so many people are using it. Probably not many removable trays and maybe some even leaving side covers off. Or maybe they're cutting off the tops of the tubes.

2) I have a 3 pin fan in my hard drive cage, but the Sys_fan connection on the bottom front of the MOBO is a 4 pin, and it's where this fan would easily connect were it a 3 pin header. The other sys_fan header is a 3 pin, but I can't use it for the rear fan, cause it's a 2 wire fan with I guess a molex conn. Directly to the PSU with that one. That 3 pin header is at the mid rear of the board and the front fan's wire won't reach it. O.K. so I have a Pwr_fan connector (3 pin) on the front upper half of board, my fan's connector reaches and fits it, is it O.K. to use there? There's nothing from My PSU that goes there. What else is it for?

3) For my intial powerup, should I insert just 1 stick of mem, or go ahead with all 4 right off the bat?

I'm only half kidding on this next question;
No. really only 1/5 kidding.
4) After intial powerup, assuming it will most definitely be successful, hehe, what is my next first step(s)?

Thnx in advance. Gotta get a litlle sleep now.
Lou

[David M]

For thermal paste the reality is that there is not a whole lot of difference in the thermal conductivity between types or brands. I would use what the factory gave you. With the less viscous thermal compound the heat pipe gaps will mostly fill in....its not that critical, you just want to make sure the flattened areas of the heat pipes have thermal compound. One cannot cut off the tops of the heat pipes. There is a fluid in there at a partial vacuum which conducts much of the heat. The coolant in the vapor phase goes to the cooling vanes and in the liquid phase goes back to the heat sink to be heated up again.

For your first POST, use all four sticks. If it does not POST then use one stick and then follow this procedure if necessary. Having problems with a new build? Try this.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand what is going on with the cooling fan connectors. Your CPU cooling fan will have its own specific connector on the motherboard. It will be labeled as such and your motherboard installation manual will describe its location as well. As for the rest of the fans, it is okay to mix and match the various fan connectors with your case fans. It is also okay to mix motherboard fan connectors with different number of pins so long as physically they easily connect. Ideally you want to connect as many case fans to the motherboard as you can before you start connecting case fans to your PSU. The reason is that case fans connected to the motherboard can be monitored...its not all that critical though. If it makes more sense then power your case fans with the Molex connectors directly from your PSU. The three and four pin fan connectors are capable of reading out the fan speed in the BIOS or with fan monitoring software. Fan extension cables and Molex extension, adapters and splitters are available through online retailers like Newegg and Amazon. Also, every fan that came with the case does not necessarily be running. As long as you do not have a couple big graphics cards producing a lot of heat, one fan in the front and one in the back is probably adequate. More fans mean more noise.

[bigsully]

Thanks for the help David.

In a nutshell, I can't hook up the 3 pin front case fan (hard disk cage) to it's intuitive place on the MOBO (SYS_FAN1 4 pin) without an adapter, because to do so would force and bend the 4th pin on the MOBO. I kind of wanted to use this fan since it's already there, needed or not. The SYS-FAN2 header is out of reach of the front fan without an extension wire. But the MOBO also has another 3 pin header labeled PWR_FAN that fits fine and it reaches, and I wanted to know if it was O.K. to use this header instead.

Googling this, I got conflicting answers some saying it was only to be used to monitor the PSU fan, and only if the PSU came equipped to do so. Mine is not.

Digging deeper into my manual, I now see gigabyte labels both SYS_FAN2 and PWR_FAN with the following designations;

Pin # Definition

1 GND
2 +12V
3 Sense

and SYS_FAN1 adds

4 Reserve

CPU_FAN has pin 4 designated as speed control. I have no problem with that at all, the hyper 212 has 4 wires/4 pin connector.

So I am assuming it is safe to use this PWR_FAN heading for the front case fan if need be, although the MOBO might sense and report the fan's performance as coming from something else. That's the only difference between SYS_FAN2 and PWR_FAN that I can see. Am I assuming right?

Again David, thanks for all the help. I'm just gonna use the CM thermal paste as you suggested. I'm eager to get this show on the road.

[bigsully]

O.K. I got the asembly 98% done. Everything went real smoothly, and I enjoyed that part very much. I wasn't going to power up tonight, because if their was a problem, I knew I wouldn't sleep. But I just couldn't resist.

So I powered up while watching things closely. All fans CPU, rear case, PSU, and front case all workly quietly, and slow speed. Noticed no heat at all anywhere except maybe ever so slight warmth from memory after being on a few minutes.

Not sure what the first screen was on the monitor as I was busy watching other things first. When I did look here is what it showed;

Loading operating system......
Boot from CD/DVD:
Disk boot failure, insert disk and press enter

I assumed what I was seeing was real good, so I continuing checking other things, very happy so far. CD/DVD tray opened, LEDS on etc. I didn't even hook up a keyboard yet. Let run a couple more minutes and then shut down, time for bed.

I'm not real sure where to go from here, but I guess the next step tommorow will be to hook up keyboard, enter bios and check things? See if MOBO detected Memory correctly and other components ? Then what, insert MOBO disk? At what point should I install Windows 7? I'm not sure I'm going to enjoy this part as much as the actual build.....

Thanks fellas and good night.

[glc]

At this point, install all the components and boot it up and enter the bios setup. Set it to boot from the CD/DVD first, followed by the hard drive. Set the date and time and anything else needed. Put the Windows CD in and boot to it and install Windows. After Windows is installed, then you put the mobo disk in and install needed drivers.

[bigsully]

Thanks again glc, I've been trying to get familiar with the BIOS setup or CMOS setup or whatever it is, and exploring with it, but leery of making many changes. No problem setting date/time, and I see how to set the first boot to CD/DVD. But I'm totally unsure of what if any other changes to make. Also trying to get to the post screen after startup, wanted to see BIOS version I have and anything else interesting. Both the manual and the gigabyte start up screen say to press [tab] to get to post screen, doesn't usually work and when it does, it flashes too quickly to read.

My Kingston memory is specced and testedto run 1333 at CL7 timings 7-7-7-20, and 1.65V. I guess the standard is 1.5V at CL9 timings, thats what it sdefaults in the BIOS anyway. Should I just leave settings alone, at least for now? Hmm I guess my my memory is really no better than the standard 1333 CL9 because it has to be overvolted to run at the tighter timings? The only difference being that it was tested to run at those tighter timings, the standard not tested but may still run at them if overvolted to 1.65? How do I know that they are running in dual channel mode?

I have options in the BIOS for
1) Load failsafe default settings (something like this), or
2) Load optimized settings

Should I just use optimized settings instead of trying to manually set things? And then what, will F10 use these settings for me, or does that just save it on the setup screen?

I don't really understand exactly what these options do;
F10 save and exit setup
F11 save CMOS to BIOS
F12 load CMOS from BIOS

other questions; should i setup partition(s) on HDD? Or just install Win7?

Waytoo many questions, I know. I'm thinking I might have to hire someone that actually knows what the heck the're doing setting this up.

Thanks again for all your help.

[birddog_61]

First of all relax, its not as complicated as your making it at this point. Just change your boot order to dvd first and put your windows 7 disk in the dvd drive, save and exit. The computer will restart and bring up the windows install, it will walk you through it step by step. Once you have it up and running put in your motherboard disk and install the drivers, or go to gigabytes website and download the latest drivers and install them. Install the latest drivers for your video card from the manufacturers website, and make sure everything is working as it should be. If you want to mess around with memory timings and such you can do it after windows is installed.

[glc]

The default performance settings in the bios are plenty good to get started, and you may not ever need to change most of them. Get the computer running first.

I would recommend that you set the SATA controller mode to AHCI before you install Windows. The default is probably IDE.

[bigsully]

Hi birddog61, you're right, I am probably making things more complicated than need be, it's just the way I am, I always try my best to get it right the first time, especially when I'm in virgin territory.

I haven't attempted anything else yet, just been exploring CMOS/BIOS, delving deeper into manuals and copping some internet info.

I learned some answers to the questions I had.

The "load optimized settings" is the gigabyte factory default setup, though it doesn't say this in BIOS setup.

Memory's DCTs mode determines whether memory will run in single/dual channel. ganged=single dual unganged = 2 single channel
unganged is default on my board. I'll try ganging up on it later, hehe.

functions of:

F11: save CMOS to BIOS
allows to save current settings to 1 of 8 profiles

F12: load CMOS from BIOS
If an unstable system, allows to load BIOS settings from 1 of 8 available previously user set profiles without hassles of reconfiguring.
------
glc, I'm still investigating AHCI, and hard for me to grasp. What I have learned so far is that it creates certain problems if you try to change the mode form IDE to AHCI after windows is installed. When choosing RAID, it also sets to AHCI. Or can be set to AHCI by itself. What I'm not sure about is if using AHCI initially creates more initial setup problems. Also not sure if features present in AHCI, or RAID for that matter, would ever be used or useful to a novice such as me, but maybe it should be set that way anyway.

I have the below in my notes, but not at all sure where I got it from ( I'm thinking it was Microsoft, but not at all sure), what it means, whether it is pertinent, or even if it is timely or current. (It was the wee hours of the morning zzzzz): HELPPP..... ACHI or not??? AHCI no OUCHEE???

"Windows 7 at this time does not recognize native SATA Mode for SATA drives"

---------------

On another note, after exploring the BIOS a few minutes, if I take my finger and press firmly to the base of the NB heatsink, within 10 seconds, becomes too uncomfortably hot and need to remove. I found out that the onboard ATI graphics are built right into the 890 chip. Seem's like alot to put onto an already taxed and heat prone chip. The memory for the graphics is what they call sideboard memory though , and I assume it is physically elsewhere. Can also use allocated installed memory, with, or without sideboard. Still seems some concerning for heat though. I guess all the more reason though to consider an eyefinity card running 3 monitors, rather 2 on a card + 1 onboard running 3.

I hope to get Windows 7 installed this evening, and more. And then will finish with the cable management.

Thanks all for the help again.

[bigsully]

Windows 7 install took about 22 minutes. Everything looking good so far...no problems at all.....yet....

So now again thinking about my 3 monitor setup. I didn't even know it, but my new Dell monitor U2211H 21.5" 1920 x 1080 IPS has a DisplayPort input, I shouldn't need an adapter, just a cable. The bad news, I got the monitor for $200 on sale, yesterday the monitors were back up to $279. The O.K news, today the price is back down to $229, so I guess I'll order 2 more at that price, and have all 3 monitors exactly alike.

About the 5770 vga though, do you really think is powerful enough to power all three monitors? Seems like a lot on one, but I guess maybe it is enough for what I want to use for? I don't want to cook it.

I'm not entirely sure, but looking at gigabyte manual, it does look like the onboard 4290 graphics are disabled when adding a card, unless it is used in conjunction with (hybrid crossfireX). So apparently I can't run 2 monitors with the 5770, and + 1 monitor with the onboard 4290 as I had originally hoped. Gotta call Gigabyte on that one I guess.

[bigsully]

I've just been looking at some of the Radeon 6000 series, in case I decide to up a notch, like 6850 or 6870.

So now they want to confuse me more. Whereas most of the lower ones (like 5770) just show 2-Dual link DVI outputs, now some of these are showing 1 DL-DVI-I, and 1 SL-DVI-D. Whats the difference and would they both be compatible with my monitors? Also, is the signal coming out of each output going to be the same in Quality?
----------------

On another note, the Dell monitors I have/will have, probably wouldn't be the best choice for a gamers eyefinity use (extended mode) because of the wide 5/8" bezel on these IPS monitors. I don't care as much about the extended (gamer's 3 screens acting as one) mode though, so the wide bezels are not as much concern to me.

Thanks in advance
Lou

[bigsully]

I found an answer, to one of my questions, although that creates even more questions...... I'll figure it out eventually...

DL-DVI-I = Dual link DVI integrated (carries both digital and analog)
SL-DVI-D = Single link DVI digital (digital only)
SL-DVI-I = Single link DVI integrated
---------------------------

It appears that the 5770 with 2 dual link DVI-I + DisplayPort will be more than sufficient for my intended use. I'm leaning more towards Sapphire or XFX though, rather than HIS.

[glc]

I wouldn't touch XFX. Sapphire is good, but they have no end user support in the US. That's why we recommend Asus, Diamond, or HIS.

[David M]

A dual link DVI cable is required for monitors with resolutions that are greater than 2.74 megapixels which works out to greater than a 1920 x 1200 monitor. You can distinguish a single link from a dual link cable by looking at the two center columns of pins. If they are missing then it is a single link cable.

Integrated means it also accepts a VGA (analog) signal. An integrated DVI cable has four small pins surrounding the larger horizontal pin. My guess is that when you have a digital signal that since the analog VGA pins are not needed to carry a video signal that those same four pins can then used to carry sound. I could not find any sort of reference to my guess.

The reason there is a difference is you can only connect a DVI-A analog to analog or a DVI-D digital to digital. A DVI-I cable can carry both analog and digital formats, but cannot convert. To connect opposites requires a converter....A VGA to DVI-D converter or a DVI-D to VGA converter.