Build Sanity Check

[jrocha]

Greetings all,

I used to think of myself as in the know for computer parts, but then the gamming rag I use to read become more of an advertising arm than a review. And so I dropped that subscription, and seemed to fade into a WOW comma.

My machine is old and I'm out of touch with todays hardware. I'm wanting to get back into FPSes, and I enjoy games such as StarCraft II, and will probably still dabble with MMOs. I also use my PC for creating home videos, to share the kiddo's latest achievements with the grandparents via DVD movies, etc.

I'm not exactly constrained by a budget, other than trying to make sure I don't get the "you paid how much for you new computer" response from my wife. I'm thinking $2500 or less.

The build below is actually borrowed from a $2K PC build I found on Tom's Hardware System Builder Marathon, March 2011: Value Compared with a few tweaks on my part.


Case: Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

I choose this because the Antec 300 Illusion isn't in stock on newegg, and doesn't seem to be suported anymore. I didn't even see it on the Antec product site. This case seemed comprable, and it seems that it'll be large enough for the power supply I selected.

PSU: CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-850HX 850W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

I kept reading everywhere that selecting a good power supply is cruicial. I've had a PSU go out on me (without any damaged parts), and so I was attracted to this as it was a highly rated PSU listed from JonnyGURU.com - Corsair TX750 V2 750W Review. Although I am a little concerned if it will fit in the case (based on review comments that stated the PSU was larger than others.) The case dimensions look like they'll support it.

Motherboard: Asus P8P67 WS Revolution LGA 1155

My current motherboard is an ASUS and I've had good luck with them so far. Co-workers and friends also spoke well of them, and this was part of the $2k build.

CPU: Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I72600K

Originally I was attracted to the i7-970 due to it's 6 cores. (MMmmmmm... morrreee), but a friend of mine suggested I look at the 2600K. Reading a few online reviews it appeared that the 2600k was doing as well as if not better than the i7-970 in the areas I was interested in. Moreover, the 2600k is a fair bit less than the i7-970.

Am I an overclocker? No. Not yet. I have friends who are, and I'd like to keep my options available to try it. Hence the 'K' model.

CPU FAN: Scythe SCMG-2100 Sleeve CPU Cooler

I've had heat problems in the past, and the build I referenced from had this but I don't really know.

HDD: 2x ADATA S599 AS599S-64GM-C 2.5" 64GB SATA II Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

My work laptop has SSD and it boots quickly and is very responsive as compared to my old work laptop or even home desktop. I want this goodness at home too. However, to be honest I don't know what makes a quality SSD. Recommendations or confirmation are greatly apprecaited here.

HDD2: SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

Need a fair amount of space for storying my video edits, pictures, and itunes. Once again, recommendations/confirmation is greatly appreciated here.

RAM: CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory

I had originally planned upon G.SKILL based on the build I was modeling on, but I found various posts in your site that recommended Corsair or Cruicial instead. I read one response where someone suggestd they replace their G.SKILL with Corsair instead. So I started of with this instead. I went for 16GB instead of 8, in the hopes that it would improve my vidoe work, and hopefually make few games run better.

Pri Optical: LITE-ON Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 24X DVD Writer LightScribe Support

I'm not interested in BlueRay, and I like light scribes.

Sound Card: None (Use motherboard audio)

Video Card: 2x XFX HD-695A-CNFC Radeon HD 6950 2GB, Xfire

Here, I just took what was suggested from the $2k build. I don't know anything about today's graphics cards. I'm not married to Nvida or ATI. My current video card is the ATI x800 XT Platinum addition AGP. Yes my current PC is that old. This one seemed okay, had decent reviews, etc. This is my first time to go with a dual card system. Advise?

FDD: None

Keyboard: Use Old

Mouse: Use Old

Modem: None

Lan: Use motherboard interface

Monitor: Already Have: Gateway FPD 2485W - LCD display - TFT - 24" - widescreen - 1920 x 1200

Speakers: Already have

OS: Windows 7

Extras: Already have, USB External Drive for backup (LaCie 1TB)

That's it folks. Thanks for taking the time to read and help.

Cheers.

-=John

[David M]

There are a few changes I would make. Replace the Samsung drive with a Western Digital black 6 GB per second/64 MB cache. It's faster and more reliable. You can get boot drives up to 2 TB now and storage drives up to 3 TB.

The RAM you chose is 1.5 volts with loose enough timings. That should be okay. You will want to check if the RAM heat sinks will clear the CPU heat sink that you chose.

With the graphics cards, if you have a single monitor then I would pick Nvidia over AMD. If you ever want a multiple monitor gaming setup then I would choose an AMD 6000 series card, for your build.

That is the motherboard I would choose were I building a high end gamer right now.

Do not choose the XFX brand graphics card. This is why... Video Card Rating

Look at the 6000 series cards for AMD and the 580 for Nvidia cards, if you are looking for a very fast card for around $500.

Right now the ultimate card is a 6990 for around $700. No worries about this card being able to drive any single large monitor with your game settings turned up all the way.

If you only want one graphics card, then the power supply you chose is a slight overkill although the Corsair series you chose is good. With your budget you might consider the Corsair AX series, which are the high end power supplies with a 7 year warranty.

[mattaggie]

I would get a bigger SSD drive (at least 128gb) and get it with SATAIII 6.0GBS interface. Intel or Corsair. Also make sure you use 64 bit version of Windows 7.

Oops I meant Crucial not Corsair. GLC beat me too it.

[glc]

Do not put 2 SSD's in with RAID - if you really want SSD, get ONE larger one. Intel for reliability, Crucial for speed.

[jrocha]

David

Thank you for your insights.

Hard Drive:

Using your advise I selected the following:
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

RAM:

How does one validate that the RAM heat sinks and the CPU heat sinks won't conflict? I mean other than trial and error.

I looked closely at the motherboard image for the top downview and it appears that there is a rectangular outline on the board which could represent the edges of a heat sink. The RAM slots appear to be veritcal, not angled, and they appear to be outside the silkscreened rectangle.

I went to the corsair website to look for "officially supported" memory, and found the following memory finder tool. However, they didn't have the ASUS P8P67 WS motherboard listed. Although they did have many other flavors of the ASUS P8P67.

I looked at the images for the ASUS P8P67 Deluxe and the CPU/RAM section looks very similar to the P8P67 WS. Corsair says that the deluxe is compatible with CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9 (16GB (4x4GB)).

I've selected the B variant (CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9B), same base number but ends with a B. The feature from the B variant that caught my eye was "1.5 V VDIMM spec ensures compatibility with 2nd generation (Sandy Bridge) Intel Core processor family."

I checked the ASUS website and they had an excel spreadsheet that listed qualtified memory, but the sheet seems a bit wonky since it lists a 12GB set which consists of six(6) 2GB DIMMS, when the motherboard only has 4, and the largest memory configuration they have is 12GB in their worksheet, and they are predominately 1.65V while I thought I read 1.5V was used for Sandy Bridge.

Any advise to share here?

Video Card:

Thanks for the tip to avoid XFS. If I undestand you correctly, you're recommending going with NvDIA since I only plan on one monitor? Correct? But then you mentioned the ultimate card at 6990, which I assume is AMD due to the numbers?

What if I went with one 6990 for now, and then in the future I might get another if I needed more? Although, it looks like I would need to increase my PSU if I went for two of the 6990s.

Mattaggie, GLC

Thanks for the feedback.
HDD:

Okay, bigger, non-raid SSD. I choose Intel's Intel 510 Series (Elm Crest) SSDSC2MH120A2K5 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

OS:

Check! I forgot to mention I was getting the 64bit version of windows.

[glc]

The 1.5 volt ram is preferable in ANY motherboard. The lower the voltage, the cooler it runs, and the more stable it will be.

Single monitor gaming does not need one 6990, much less two. That's my opinion.

[ScoJoh]

I just picked up the EVGA 560 based vid card (Nvidia) and have been pleased! I have pretty much every game I've got running utterly maxed graphically and I'm in sheer eyeball delight right now! But if you want to be on the bleeding edge of graphics longer, certainly go with the 570/580/590....

I hear you about the... "You spent WHAT???" I told my wife my PC build was going to run about 1200 bucks... and she was severely disappointed that I hasn't kept it under 600 bucks..... So I kindly explained that the brand new system i could build for 600 bucks wouldn't even touch my 8 year old system! Sad but true! :-)

[jrocha]

Hahah... I hear you ScoJoh.... although I must confess that my wife is encouraging me to get a new computer because my old machine can't.. ahem... play Disney Princess: Enchanted Journey.

It'll play WOW just fine (not maxed graphics), and various other games. But stutters when my youngest wants to play her princesses. Soooo... I can use that as leverage for getting a great machine now that will last for a couple of years.

[jrocha]

Case: Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

PSU: CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-850HX 850W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

Double checking. Is this powersupply sufficient for the new graphics cards I selected?

Motherboard: Asus P8P67 WS Revolution LGA 1155

CPU: Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I72600K

CPU FAN: Scythe SCMG-2100 Sleeve CPU Cooler

HDD: Intel 510 Series (Elm Crest) SSDSC2MH120A2K5 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Single drive, size increase, as recommended by GLC & Mattagie

HDD2: Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

As recommended by David

RAM: CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory

Pri Optical: LITE-ON Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 24X DVD Writer LightScribe Support

Sound Card: None (Use motherboard audio)

Video Card: 2x HIS IceQ X Turbo H685QNT1GD Radeon HD 6850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity

Watching other gaming rig suggestions I saw a reference to Tom's Hardware for Best Graphics Cards For The Money: April 2011. After reading this I saw that two 6950s would be overkill for my 1920x1200 monitor. Two 6850's was suggested for exceptional 1920x1200.

FDD: None

Keyboard: Use Old

Mouse: Use Old

Modem: None

Lan: Use motherboard interface

Monitor: Already Have: Gateway FPD 2485W - LCD display - TFT - 24" - widescreen - 1920 x 1200

Speakers: Already have

OS: Windows 7 64 bit

Question. The only new egg Retail listing I found for windows 7 home Premium Full was here. The description does not say 32 or 64 bit. Under the details it looks like this is for both 32 bit and 64 bit, and yet I'm unsure.

Extras: Already have, USB External Drive for backup (LaCie 1TB)

[glc]

You do not need a full version of Windows 7 - just get the OEM.

Why are you getting two lower end cards? You will get better performance with ONE 6970, and the end cost is less - and you won't need that strong a power supply. I'm a firm believer in "keep it simple" and have NEVER liked SLI or Crossfire.

Newegg.com - DIAMOND 6970PE52G Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity

If you want a modular, all you need is the 650HX for that single card. If you want to leave yourself the option, the AX750 is certified for two 6970's.

You can also save some bucks with a P8P67 Pro or a Sabertooth P67, those WILL Crossfire at x8 for each card and would make more sense for a single card. The only reason to get the WS is for the NF200 bridge if your goal is to run 2 cards at x16 for bragging rights.

[jrocha]

I choose those two lower cards rather than the 6970 because of the review information on this page from Tom's Hardware.

2 x Radeon HD 6850 in CrossFire (Check Prices) Exceptional 1920x1200 performance, Good 2560x1600 performance Two GeForce GTX 460 1 GB cards in SLI can beat down a single GeForce GTX 480 (and by extension, the new GeForce GTX 570 and Radeon HD 6970), as demonstrated in this article by Thomas Soderstrom. We also know that the Radeon HD 6850 scales well in CrossFire mode, offering strong competition for a couple of GeForce GTX 460 1 GB cards. .... .... Honorable Mention: Radeon HD 6970 (Check Prices) Excellent 1920x1200 performance, Good 2560x1600 performance in most games

I'd save $10 going with the 6970, and go from exceptional 1920x1200 to excellent. Although I suppose it would allow the option of expanding to a second 6970 someday if future games became too much for a single 6970, or if/when I upgrade to a larger monitor. And in the mean time a single card would be more quiet than two....

[jrocha]

I finally pulled the trigger and ordered the parts. The fact that the secondary hard drive on my old machine crashed may have had some influence. Luckily it started causing

chkdsk

to run during windows start up and i was able to ensure that I backed up all the important data from that drive.

I went with the 6970 video card as suggested by GLC.

Now I have a new question. What about burn in? I remember long ago when ordering from Dell, they mentioned doing a burn in on the new machines before shipping them. And I've heard folks toss this phrase around when talking about new machines.

Is this a step that a DIYer would do, or is this more of an activity that a build would do for their customer? If its a DIYer activity, how would I go about doing this? What software would you recommend? Are there standard practices one should follow?

[birddog_61]

Unless your overclocking then there really isn't much need to do a burn in, if you are then there are lots of programs that will let you do it. Prime95, and Intel burn test utility for the and memory, and Furmark for the graphics card.

[jrocha]

Thanks birddog. I'm not overclocking in the beginning so it sounds like I can worry about this later. I did google around and become overwhelmed with all the possible burn in software.

Anyway, more questions.

Q1
The parts have arrived. Tomorrow I start to put the pieces together. I have an ESD strap, and I understand when one installs inside the case I connect the strap to the case. But following the instructions from PROBLEMS with a NEW BUILD? Try This!! we do the initial parts installation outside of the case.

So uhm... where to I connect the wrist strap for this scenario?

Any ESD advise would be appreciated.


Q2
The link above says insert one stick of memory. However, I thought I remembered hearing that the memory I have is dual channel and requires two inserted at a time? So would I still put in one for this test setup, or is this a scenario where I insert two?

[glc]

For the initial test, it will run with one module, but you can put both in. You might as well put both in to make sure they both work. You will want both in anyway before you mount the board in the case.

I'm very conscious of ESD, but I don't use a wrist strap. Just be careful.

[jrocha]

Wohoooo! Its up. Windows is installed, everything is cabled. I'm going to finish of tomorrow by installing all the drivers and software.

Thanks all for the help.

I followed the instructions for PROBLEMS with a NEW BUILD? Try This!! and had one small glitch in that only 4G of memory was detected (to be honest I tried my first boot with all 4 DIMMS inserted). I then went from one to two to three then four and it worked. I'm guessing I didn't have them seated correctly.

The Corsair Vengeance memory works fine with the stock CPU head sink and this motherboard.

Oh and this motherboard has a special debug adapter that has status LEDs, and power on/reset buttons on it. This made the out of case preliminary starts up a breeze -- no shorting pins to start, and if there's a problem it displays a fault code. The motherboard also has tiny LEDs next to the major components, and if any have problems during boot up the corresponding LED stays lit.

The case is a little small, width-wise. The graphics card I purchased, HIS 6970 is really long, extending approximately 1/2 an inch past the mother board. Consequently, I had to remove the optional internal fan housing for the drive bay adapter, and I cannot use the 3.5 drive bay that aligns with that PCI slot (illustrated below)

Another item to note is that this case is a bottom PSU case. This motherboard and the length of the power connectors for the Corsair's PSU make me think they would work much better for a top mounted PSU case. I got it to work but it wasn't as purdy as it could have been (also illustrated below).

Still, I am happy with it, I only panicked for 10 minutes

[glc]

You can get an extender for that power lead so you can route it neater.

Newegg.com - Athena Power 12" EPS-12V (8Pin) connector Extension Cable Model Cable-AD10 - Cables

[jrocha]

Thank you!

I didn't know they created extenders. I had assumed they where a certain length for power dissipation, etc. reasons (ignorant assumption). I was able to find some other extension cords that will make cable routine easier too!