Help with New Server Build

[Hippo08]

Hey everyone,

So I thought I would build myself a server to fool around with. I think I need some preliminary help in order for me to go about buying parts/software. Is there anyway to have a server that can be a home server(for files/media/whatever else I put on it), a web server AND maybe something that can support virtual machines(like having two machines, and people with different logins could login to either machine and access their files*is this even possible for what I am doing?*)

The reason why I want it to be able to do all of this is because I want to learn. I want to learn Linux and Windows Home Server and Apache and whatnot. It would be good to have my own little testing environment, y'know? If I have to build different boxes for each, thats fine too!

What type of case should I be looking for with a server? I heard I can buy OEM server software that is much cheaper than buying a business license(because im not running a business with this, its just for home enjoyment/learning/use).

Sorry if the post seems scattered, its because I don't really know where to begin!

Any help is appreciated and thank you in advance,

Hippo

[David M]

We just had a thread about the advantages of different types of servers.

NAS drive or Windows Home Server?

[Hippo08]

Thank you David, that was an awesome read. It makes me want to start ordering stuff for my new Windows Home Server! So, basically, a server can only be built to do one type of OS/work? Like I would have to build a Linux box a WHS box and a Webserver box if I really wanted to get anything done and each have their own benefits/drawbacks? Or am I still missing a piece to the puzzle?

It also seems like a NAS drive is something that already comes pre-configured and that is not something I am looking to do. I want to build it, configure it, learn it, use it and love it.

[Hippo08]

So I have thrown together a few things.

PSU - Newegg.com - Antec BP550 Plus 550W Continuous Power ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

Case - Newegg.com - Antec Six Hundred Black / Silver ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

OS - Newegg.com - Microsoft Windows Home Server Power Pack 3 (new version) - Server Software

HDD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136514

RAM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233132

CPU/MOBO Comb - http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.642583

Will these be good for my server? The PSU is a PSU we have laying around, the case I am recycling from an old build so I haven't bought anything yet.

I am really confused on what RAM/CPU I should get. Any help here? I should be able to choose the motherboard once I get those two areas filled in.

Thank you guys for the suggestions,

Hippo

UPDATE: Added rest of parts, but am still confused. Is the motherboard/RAM/CPU overkill for a home server? Should I take it down a notch and get more storage space with another WD:CG drive? Any help would be greatly appreciated as this is my first build for a server and I don't know how long discounts will stay active!

[glc]

Let's be practical here. If you want something to learn on - which you may be wiping and reloading frequently - why not scrounge some used parts and throw them together? You don't need current technology. A 5 year old Dell out of the dumpster would do the job.

[glc]

Or - if you have a case and PSU and want to build something cheap but very functional, look at this:

Newegg.com - ASUS P5G41T-M/CSM LGA 775 Intel G41 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

Newegg.com - Intel Celeron E3400 Wolfdale 2.6GHz 1MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80571E3400

Newegg.com - Kingston 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KVR1066D3N7K2/4G

Newegg.com - LITE-ON Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA CD/DVD Burner - Bulk - CD / DVD Burners

Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar Blue WD3200AAKS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive (OS drive)

I would not use an "advanced format" data storage drive if you are going to be playing with multiple operating systems. The Green "EARS" drives are advanced format. Grab one of these while they are still around:

Amazon.com: 2 TB Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive: Electronics

[Hippo08]

Hey glc,

Yeah, this is exactly what I was thinking about. To be honest though, I am thinking of maybe building two boxes. One for a home server so my wife/family can use it. And then another one so I can start fooling around on it. Any suggestions on that? I don't really have an old computer just floating around for me to use parts from and whatnot(other than that old case and PSU). So I will use the one we use at home as a WHS(and I can learn on that as well) and then another cheapo-box that I can install Linux and whatever else I want to(this one will be wiped a lot).

Don't know if that changes your mind about your parts or anything, but let me know what you think if this is a good/bad idea.

Thank you,

Hippo

[glc]

Cheapo box for farting around? The list in my last post, minus the 2 TB drive.

Note that if you put WHS on your existing box, you won't be able to use it for anything else.

[Hippo08]

So for my WHS box, should I use the components I listed? Or just order 2 sets of everything you posted(minus the 2 TB drive)? And get another PSU/Case for the screwing around server box?

Thank you glc and sorry for so may q's,

Hippo

[glc]

If you want a WHS and a screwaround box, yes, you should do 2 builds. With WHS, you can use an EARS drive, it can handle advanced format. I would think that it would be fine with those specs.

Need a cheap case and psu?

Newegg.com - APEX TX-381-C Black Steel Micro ATX Tower Computer Case

Newegg.com - Antec Basiq BP350 350W ATX12V v2.01 Power Supply

Use those for the screwaround box.

[Hippo08]

Thank you so much glc,

Ordering parts now and I will let you know what all I come up with.

[Hippo08]

So I went over to Fry's yesterday and picked up a lot of the parts. In fact, they had everything I needed (I don't mind paying tax if they are willing to price match some stuff). I got this case for the home server (a friend wanted that antec 600 case, so I am using that for his build).

This is the case I got for my WHS,

Newegg.com - IN WIN Griffin (Black) Black ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

I was wondering if anyone could tell me the difference between the 3.5" bay and the 5 internal 3.5" bay. Should a HDD be able to fit in that first slot? It looks as big as the other slots, but it doesn't seem to have as much vertical spacing. I picked that case up for $35 and it was pretty solid other than its tool-less construction (which they didn't actually provide for every bay) and they were flimsy. Didn't really matter because they gave me enough screws to seat everything the old fashioned way (which is what I prefer anyways, I KNOW that HDD isn't going to move even if the case is kicked/falls over/whatever). Also, it was the first case I have seen that had those raised lump motherboard standoffs and then 2 regular motherboard standoffs I had to screw in (keep in mind I am not hardcore system builder and this is only my third build). Are these bad or just a way for them to keep costs down?

I did manage to get the EADS drive and might order an EARS drive a little bit later.

The build is put-together and working. Now if only newegg/amazon/someone will start selling WHS 2011 soon!

Parts for my screwaround build have been ordered(pretty much EXACTLY what you suggested). I have a ODD laying around and will just put it from one build to the next because once I have WHS2011 installed, I shouldn't be needing an ODD for it.

Thank you so much glc, David, and PCMech!

[glc]

You should be able to put a hard drive in the external 3.5 bay, but why? Aren't there enough internal bays? If you have to, you can get adapters to mount hard drives in the 5.25 bays too.

You can also use a USB adapter with your ODD to avoid having to mount and dismount it.

I'll post a couple of links for you when geeks.com is working, it's offline right now.

[Hippo08]

I was just wondering if I could or not. I didn't put anything in there because it seemed like it would be too snug of a fit and I didn't want to force the issue so my drives are in the internal bays. I did take a look at the 5.25" adapter bays for HDDs. One thing I was wondering is that there are only 4 SATA connections to my board, does this mean I will have to put an add-in PCI SATA connector card if I wanted more? Because as of this point I couldn't even use all of my 5 internal bays with this motherboard. Is there a way to make those ports split into two or maybe something I am missing on the board itself?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...SID=46kok8bu23

That is my board. If I can't do it internally, that is fine, but what might be the best option if I had to go external to fill more space?

[glc]

That's a limitation of an inexpensive motherboard! Without an internal ODD, you have room for 4 hard drives - do you really think you need more? You do have one IDE controller that will handle 2 drives.

Order one of these:

IDE/SATA to USB 2.0 Cable Adapter w/One Touch Backup - Turn Your 2.5", 3.5" or 5.25" IDE or SATA Drive Into A USB Drive! 2020-OTB

These are what you need to put a HDD in a 5.25:

StarTech 3.5" Universal Hard Drive Mounting Bracket Adapter for 5.25" Drive Bay STARTECH.COM USA LLP BRACKET

They can probably be found cheaper, this is for reference only.

[Hippo08]

If I were to get that IDE/SATA to USB, should I get an enclosure for the drive as well so that it is protected while it lay around outside of the case?

[Tin]

Originally Posted by Hippo08 If I were to get that IDE/SATA to USB, should I get an enclosure for the drive as well so that it is protected while it lay around outside of the case?

Its either that or an external enclosure. I dont believe anything is made that lets you use what glc linked along with an enclosure.

[glc]

If you want external housings, these are good:

Newegg.com - Rosewill RX-358 V2 BLK (Black) 3.5" SATA to USB & eSATA Ext. Enclosure w/Int.80mm fan

[Hippo08]

Thank you glc and Tin,

Just seems crazy to me to pay an extra 35$ just to have another HDD! Will one of those big RAID 5 enclosures only go into one e-SATA port? Or do they each need their own port?

Thank you again for everything,

Hippo

[birddog_61]

Just a question but wouldn't it be better to run a xeon processor since they are designed to run 24/7?

[Hippo08]

The answer is, yes, but I didn't want to shell out the money for it! This project was supposed to be an inexpensive way for my family to backup and store their data. It won't be seeing heavy use and if it goes down it won't be the end of the world. The data is the most important part of it and it is being backed up as well as in a RAID 5 array.

[Tin]

Originally Posted by Hippo08 Thank you glc and Tin, Just seems crazy to me to pay an extra 35$ just to have another HDD! Will one of those big RAID 5 enclosures only go into one e-SATA port? Or do they each need their own port? Thank you again for everything, Hippo

The RAID enclosures use a port multiplier. You can run 4 drives off of one eSATA port as long as the card has a port multiplier.

[Hippo08]

Awesome! So here is a question that might be a little more intricate. Can I run a RAID(specifically a RAID5) with the internal drives AND an external enclosure? So like 5 internal bays and 4 external? Can those be in the same array through a port multiplier? It is not something I am trying to do right now, however, it may be in the future as I see my server expand.

[Tin]

Originally Posted by Hippo08 Awesome! So here is a question that might be a little more intricate. Can I run a RAID(specifically a RAID5) with the internal drives AND an external enclosure? So like 5 internal bays and 4 external? Can those be in the same array through a port multiplier? It is not something I am trying to do right now, however, it may be in the future as I see my server expand.

It depends on the card. If youre running Linux, you can RAID across different enclosures with mdraid. If youre running Windows, I dont think that option is available.

[glc]

I think if you want to be running a RAID 5, you need more upscale hardware. My recommendation was for a low budget "play" machine!

[Hippo08]

Yeah, it's all good glc! It is my play machine right now! And it will soon turn into my linux machine(it doesn't have the advanced format drives in it). I needed to be able to jump in and see what it was all about. I am building my "actual" home server soon, but wanted something I could fool around on first to see the software side of things/how to set it up/etc.

I asked my previous questions to gauge how capable a machine like this really could be. I think we know/are finding out it really isn't suited for much more than to be able to learn on. And for around $300, I have been able to learn and I am sure I will learn much much more!

Thank you again guys for all of your help,

Hippo

[Tin]

If you choose Linux for your server, I highly recommend Debian or CentOS. CentOS is essentially Redhat Enterprise under GNU public license. Debian and CentOS are both very stable. The packages included in Debian stable releases go through very strict testing to make sure they check out. Ubuntu Server distros pull from the Debian testing packages. They work, but theyre not as stable as an official Debian stable release. Windows Home Server isnt bad either. Its more set it and forget it. With Linux, you have to work to earn your keep, but the satisfaction in knowing you configured your server to your specific needs more than makes up for it. You can do much more with a Linux distro than you can with WHS. Software RAID on Linux is very good. Its extremely portable, as in you can move arrays to another Linux machine, type in a few commands at the CLI, and be off and running. There have been many tests comparing Linux RAID to hardware RAID, and the performance differences generally pretty negligible with all other things being equal. Sure WHS comes with the things most people would want to use, but it stops there. Would you like a phone box exchange to manage your VOIP line? Scratch WHS off the list. Need a DVR server? Install a MythTV back end...then Mediatomb to distribute recorded TV shows around the house. How about automatic CD/DVD ripping and encoding with no user intervention? Not in WHS. The list is rather infinite. If theres a certain function beyond the standard file serving capabilities that you need, chances are, you can do it with Linux.

[Hippo08]

I couldn't agree more to be honest. I actually built another box to see how they run and I am really loving Linux. To be honest, the learning curve was a little bit up there, but google and the internet are a wonderful thing for solving those problems.

As to software vs. hardware raid, anyone else have any other opinions on this? My data right now doesn't mean a whole lot. But soon when I build full fledged servers, the data will be EVERYTHING. Can software raid be rebuilt if a hdd dies? What about if the OS drive dies? I guess to be specific, I am talking just about those two linux distros you have listed. And I got the WHS 2011 box because it is so very user friendly to do things(even without drive extender it was so simple to organize and whatnot).

However, you could not be more right when saying it is what it is and it is not anything more.

EDIT: I would like to add that I built the second server in a Raidmax 2000ATX something or another and I should have just listened to Khalil's advice. Motherboard mounts could not be screwed into, 5.25" bays were too small, had to flatten the metal, and the HDD bay did not align with screws right. To be honest, I actually had a TON of fun with it, but would NEVER EVER do it again, haha. I feel like it cost me more in the end than I saved by buying a cheap case. But I had a pretty good idea of what I was getting into. Sorry for the splurge, it was just so funny what I had to do to that thing to make it work!

[glc]

When you start building real servers, I'd recommend you use nothing but Adaptec hardware RAID controllers.

[Hippo08]

Good to know glc,

Here in a week I will probably make a new thread. I will have around 1250-1500 for a new server build that will actually be built to SERVE! But I am still messing around with software and whatnot and seeing just how much hardware I will need to support the environment.

Thanks again everyone,

Hippo