upgrading current rig, need some advice!

[joshh1512]

Hey guys, in about 4years ago (2006) i built my first gaming rig, at the time it was top notch, and still works great, however it's finally starting to be slow in games/multi-tasking etc.

The current spec is...

- Asus P5K-e WiFi Deluxe board
- Intel e6750 oc'd @ 3.2Ghz
- nVidia 7950GX2
- Geil Ultra 2GB 800mhz DDR2
- Antec Mars CPU fan
- 7400rpm 320GB Sata HDD
- Razer Barracuda Sound Card
- TV Card
- 500W PSU ( I think, also not a well known brand)
- Various cooling fans
- Windows 7 32bit
- Coolermaster Storm Scout case
- Samsung 22" HD monitor
- Logitech x-530 speaker set

Ok, so thats pretty much it apart from extra perhiples etc.

I use the PC for most things, storing music, watching films/tv, gaming and work. Though the main use is gaming.

I currently play world of warcraft, not a serious player, but play a couple of hours a day, i'd like to be able to get the max out of the game as possible as i used to be able to run it maxed out, now i am unable to push it above 'fair' settings..

So yeh, i'm wanting to run WoW on ultra settings with a playable fps, anywhere over 50fps would be great.

My current thoughts on upgrades is just a new graphics card and ram, i belive the rest of the system is ok for now? Although a new PSU may be in order too...

For the GPU, i've been looking at the gtx 460 range, i'm pretty sure this will handle WoW on ultra, but i just need to decide which one to go for, and that's why i'm asking you guys I've picked out 3 models...

EVGA 2GB GTX 460 -£180

EVGA 1GB gtx 460 'SSC' -£145

EVGA 1GB gtx460 'FTW' -£175

Ok, so they are the 3 i've picked out, to me they all look pretty decent, I just need some advice on which is gonna be the best choice, for a) performance, and b) value for money, also if someone could advise me weather or not they could all handle WoW on ultra graphics... also, do all 3 of the cards have Dx11? If there is another card you suggest may be better within the same price range, or slightly higher, please suggest it to me!

Moving onto ram, i think i'm gonna stick with DDR2, is DDR3 really much better? Is it worth getting a whole new mobo and more expensive Ram for it? Anyway, i'm not sure what amount of ram to get, obviousley i'll be needing to get 64bit windows 7... as i definatley need over 2Gb.

So i'm gonna go for 1066mhz as i gather that is the fastest, yes?

Here was my thoughts on what to go for...

Kingston HyperX 1066mhz -£60, though if i go for 6GB ram, then i would get an extra 2GB stick for a further £30.

So would that memory do, would i see a vast improvement by going for
6Gb, or should i stick with 4? Again, if there is better ram you could reccomend me, please let me know...

And one more thing, could i mix and match ram? I currently have 2GB of geil ultra 6400 800mhz ram, could i add 8500 1066mhz ram to it?

I think that is all covered, would i be needing a new CPU? if so i was just thinking of an intel quad core processor, if so, again could someone reccommend me which to go for? It must be an LGA775 socketed one.

If i need a new PSU as mine isn't exactly great, i was thinking of this...
Coolermaster 700W modular PSU -£70 Will this do for my build, or is it maybe abit overkill?

Also, is a hard drive gonna make much difference, i havn't really considered that...

Thanks or any help, will really appreciate it! please don't be afraid to tell me if i've said something completly wrong, and please recommend me the best spec possible for my need!

josh

[glc]

For now, all I think you should do is get a stronger graphics card and a quality PSU. You can do that with the idea of upgrading the rest of the system later and reusing the new card and PSU.

MSI GTX 570 1280MB GDDR5 Dual DVI MIni HDMI Out PCI-E.. | Ebuyer.com

Corsair TX 650W V2 PSU - 80plus Bronze Certified | Ebuyer.com

A ram upgrade with DDR2 is no longer cost-effective, and a 32 bit OS can't utilize more than about 3.25gb total.

[birddog_61]

I don't play it so I cant speak from personal experience, however from everything I have read WOW is much more cpu dependent than most games. A gtx 460 should max it no problem with a good CPU, now whether or not you want to go graphics upgrade first or processor upgrade first is entirely up to you.

Nvidia: High-End Cards At Ultra Quality : World Of Warcraft: Cataclysm--Tom's Performance Guide

As you read in the article the 470 480 and 580 all score close to the same because the i7-980x is the limiting factor at that point.

EDIT:
As for the cards you have picked, unless your running at 2560 res or so the 2gb model is no advantage. I would go with the SSC version, its cheaper and almost the exact same card as the FTW.

[glc]

My grandsons have no problem with WoW at medium - they both have XP, 2gb ram, and Radeon 5670 cards - one has a E2180 Pentium Dual Core CPU and the other has a E3400 Celeron Dual Core. My son in law is playing WoW pretty well maxed out with XP, 4gb ram, a 8800GT, and a E8500 Core 2 Duo.

[joshh1512]

The gtx460 looks fine to me, the fps seems good enough, the 570 is maybe out of budget depending on what else I get...

I'm gonna get 64bit windows so ram ain't a problem.

Would I see a difference from 4gb ram @ 1066mhz?

As for the processor, I don't think a quad core will be any use as I think wow only uses 2cores? So my only option would be to go for a higher rated socket775 CPU, and if this ones running steady @3.2 that's probablly enough?

PSU sounds a good idea though, will I see a difference in performance apart from noise?

And one more thing I was thinking was the hard drive, I can pick up a WD velociraptor for £50 which seems ok, but for an extra £30 I can get the new seagate hybrid HDD it's both a standard hard drive and an SSD drive, anyone seen em? Anyway, would a new hard drive improve peformance, or just load time? Same for a raid setup if I went down that route, is it only load times improved?

So yeh, a 460 sounds good, now I just need to know what ram, If I should get a new CPU, and the HDD...

Thanks

[joshh1512]

Originally Posted by birddog_61 A gtx 460 should max it no problem with a good CPU, now whether or not you want to go graphics upgrade first or processor upgrade first is entirely up to you. As you read in the article the 470 480 and 580 all score close to the same because the i7-980x is the limiting factor at that

sorry for double post.

Right so should an e6750 handle it, or do I need to go for something better? If so, what in the socket 775range is there? Also you say the processor is the limiting factor, is this because the gpu's are far ahead of the i7? If so, would it be a different case with the e6750 or the same?

Thanks

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by joshh1512 sorry for double post. Right so should an e6750 handle it, or do I need to go for something better? If so, what in the socket 775range is there? Also you say the processor is the limiting factor, is this because the gpu's are far ahead of the i7? If so, would it be a different case with the e6750 or the same? Thanks

Well the e6750 is a noticeably better performing CPU than the e2180 from my experience and almost as good as the "best CPU for the money (my opinion)", E3400. The E8500 would be a super upgrade (max). So, glc hit the nail on the head again, your current CPU with upgrade video card. The balance of performance and price, logically. If you want the max, then E8500 and upgrade video card.

[glc]

If you feel you must upgrade your ram, get another 2 gig pair as close to what you have as possible. 1066 speed won't help you.

The power supply upgrade is mainly for reliability issues.

Neither the Velociraptor or the hybrid are worth it. The best drive for the money is a WD Caviar Black, and upgrading your drive won't help game performance either. You are looking in all the wrong places to improve your WoW experience.

[Katreat]

I have almost the same 4 year old build that you are using. I play WOW and when my 8800 GTS 320 decided to die I just threw in a 5770 (might be a 5750) for around $100 and all of my setting are back up to max. I did move up to 4 GB of Ram when I switched from XP to 64 bit Windows 7 professional a while back, but maxing out settings in WOW should not require a new CPU. Upgrade your video card and see where that takes you before spending any more cash.

Replacing a no-name PSU is always a good move to keep the system up and running.

Kat

[Khalil]

Perfect advice from glc!
The increase in memory and a Quality GTX460 is all you need to get great performance in games. There is nothing wrong with your cpu or chipset. I would do an msconfig and check what programs you have running in the background, you could be overloading your memory with many programs you are not even using!

[joshh1512]

I am not only looking to imporve wow, that is the main target, but the pc is generally slow when multi-tasking, which i'm guessing some new ram will sort out.

Right, so a new PSU, the gtx 460...

Is the EVGA 'SSC' GTX460 the best one out there for me or... also, i don't mind spending abit more cash since i won't be getting a new cpu, though i don't feel the need to go any higher than the 460, so if there is a better gtx460 model, that may be more expensive, but will be more future-proof that would be great if you could suggest me one!

Which PSU should i be going for?

Also, i guess i should stick with 800mhz ram then, i won't even see a small difference with 1066mhz? And so i already have 2x1gb sticks of 4-4-4-12 800mhz ram (by geil) in there, does the next set of ram need to be exactly the same, or would any make of 800mhz ram be good? Also, am i gonna see a much greater difference if i go for 6GB ram? or will 4 do? again money aint an issue, i want it as fast as i can...

Finally, a new hard drive is another consideration, and you say the WD caviar black is gonna give better / faster performance results than both the momentus hybrid and the velociraptor (this is 10,000 rpm and the caviar is only 7200 [like my current one], how will the caviar be fastest? So basically, if i go for a new hard drive setup, which i will certainly consider, will i again see faster results, or will the only result be in the loading OS time? Also, if i got one caviar black additional to my current one, would i be able to run it in a RAID setup, and would this be a good idea/give better performance results?

Thanks for all the help, sorry for all the Q's!

EDIT: One more thing, i've automatically gone for nVidia, simply because i always have, and they seem the better card brand allround to me, however i never really thought, should i be looking at any radeon cards? are there any better that the gtx460 in the same price band?

[glc]

PSU is in my post above.

You don't have to match ram brands, but you should try to match timings. 4gb is plenty till you finally do get a new motherboard and CPU.

The Caviar Black has tested to be about the same speed as the Velociraptor with benchmarks. Stay away from RAID, keep it simple. When you upgrade the processor and motherboard, then think about maybe getting a SSD. For now, unless your hard drive is over 75% full, don't bother buying a new one.

The Radeon equivalent to the GTX460 1gb is the HD 6850.

[joshh1512]

Right, thanks for the help, good cause' it will keep the costs down... :P

Right, so i'm looking for 2more gigs of 4-4-4-12 800mhz ram.

And as for the GPU, i was thinking either,

- MSI Talon Attack Hawk 1GB gtx 460 (810/1620/3900mhz)

or...

- EVGA 1GB gtx 460 'SSC' (850/1700/4000mhz)

both are £160, so which will be the better card? I've heard great reviews about both, and am stuck with what to go for?

[glc]

I prefer the EVGA for the warranty. Most EVGA cards have a lifetime warranty if you register them.

[joshh1512]

Sounds good, though I have heard the evga cards are pretty noisy?

Also, I was considering a new mobo soon so I could use ddr3 ram, would I see a great speed difference with ddr3?

Thanks for all the help

[glc]

Nope.

Upgrade the video card and PSU for now. Any further upgrades should be motherboard, CPU, ram, and hard drive all at the same time.

[joshh1512]

Cool, + An extra 2GB ram, if i have 4gb ram, will windows 32bit do? it would save a lot of hassle...

[glc]

It will work, but it will only use about 3.25 gb of it. Add a 64 bit OS to your next upgrade list.

[joshh1512]

Ahh ok, so I will see a speed increase with 64bit, could I just upgrade the current 32bit OS with a 64bit disc? Or does it need a clean install? Also, do all programs etc need to be reinstalled for 64bit?

[glc]

1. No speed difference whatsoever, and all more ram will do is allow you to have more programs open before the system dips into the swapfile.
2. It needs a clean install to the best of my knowledge.

[joshh1512]

I've been looking a little more on PSU's...

oh, and i am currently bidding on an extra 2x1gb sticks of the same ram on ebay so thats sorted, by the way, my motherboard is dual channel i am sure, so is it ok to run the ram as 4x1gb? or is it better to be 2x2gb...?

Right, so for psu's i've been looking around at the different ones i can get, and modular psu's have popped up a few times, is it a better idea to go for a modular PSU, or just a standard one? Also, i gather 80+ certified psu's are the best to go for, so i'm sticking to only those or better. So i've found 3 that look good to me, 1 standard, 2modular.

xfx modular 650w - £75

Bequiet 680w modular - £85

Coolermaster GX 650w standard psu - £60

TO GLC - Sorry if it looks like i am disregarding your recommendation for the corsair psu, but the coolermaster one looked to have better reviews? though tell me if i really should go for the corsair one.

So yeh, out of the 3 that i have chosen could anyone recommend me the best, or tell me of a different psu that will be better for around the same price? I am looking for the quietest possible psu also, my current one is very noisy.

thanks

[jdeb]

You should match the ram if you can. Same timings and speed.

I would go with the Corsair all day long that glc linked to (I gave it to you again below), even if it is not modular. I prefer modular when I have smaller cases or a real particular customer. They provide better cable management and in small cases can add better airflow.
Corsair TX 650W V2 PSU - 80plus Bronze Certified | Ebuyer.com

[glc]

You want a modular?

Corsair 650W HX Modular PSU | Ebuyer.com

[joshh1512]

I dont want a modular, i'm asking if it would be the better one to go for...

also, is 650w gonna be pleanty even for the future? In about 6months, i'm gonna switch out the mobo, cpu and ram, i guess to an i7, ddr3 and atm thinking of an x58 sabertooth.

So is a 650w gonna handle all that?

a mobo, i7 cpu, 12GB (up to) ddr3, gtx460, sound card, caviar black hdd, tv card, cd drive etc.

Just i don't want to have to get yet another psu in 6months if i could get one now...

thanks

[Khalil]

650W is plenty power for anything other than Crossfire or SLI with big video cards. If you feel it is not enough they do make them up to 1500W.
The X58 is being revised and an i9 insanity will be released with it probably in the next 6-12 months, so keep an eye out for that, don't want to buy an obsolete problematic platform, well unless you are glutton for punishment

[glc]

Minimum recommended power supply for a system with a GTX460 is only 450 watts, so a high quality 650 watt is MORE than enough.