and now for something diffferent

[Svaneyk]

I just bought a business that has a 3 y/o low end server that is inadequate to the current tasks. I just had a consultant come in to provide a quote to manage my network and upgrade everything. The server they recommended from Dell was specced out below. Given I've built a few personal computers I figure I can build my own server for less than the $4300 quote.

That said, I don't know squat about servers and I'm looking for a comparable build to the specced out one....for less $$ and my labor. I'd appreciate any input you all may have on a new server build. Also, just to give you an idea of the current network, the business has ~20 pc's/laptops, we also have a camara monitering system in each room, we hoste a website, several of the computers end up streaming you tube and other fairly bandwidth intensive sites and my team uploads photo's daily and of course we run quickbooks. Our current pipeline is a double bonded T1 with 3M upload capacity.

Here's the recommended build:

Module
Description
Product Code
Sku
Id

PowerEdge T610
Tower Chassis for Up to 8, 3.5" Hard Drives
T61WT3
[224-8474]
1

Operating System
No Operating System
NOOS
[420-6320]
11

Shipping
PowerEdge T610 Shipping
SHIPGRP
[330-4119]
2

Memory
12GB Memory (3x4GB), 1333MHz Dual Ranked RDIMMs for 1 Processor, Optimized
12GDR1O
[317-0266]
[317-0266]
[317-0266]
[317-0266]
[317-0266]
[317-0266]
[317-0266]
[317-0266]
[317-0266]
[317-7302]
3

Feature Upgrades for Embedded NIC Ports
Embedded Broadcom® NetXtreme II 5709 Gigabit Ethernet NIC
OBNIC
[430-1764]
5

Primary Processor
Intel® Xeon® E5620 2.4Ghz, 12M Cache,Turbo, HT, 1066MHz Max Mem
E5620
[317-4112]
6

Additional Processor
Single Processor Only
1P
[311-3928]
[317-0342]
7

1st Hard Drive
HD Multi-Select
HDMULTI
[341-4158]
8

Internal Controller
PERC H700 Integrated RAID Controller, 512MB Cache
H700
[342-0694]
9

BIOS Setting
Performance BIOS Setting
HPBIOS
[330-3492]
10

Embedded Management
iDRAC6 Enterprise
IDRCENT
[467-8648]
14

Internal Optical Drive
DVD-ROM, SATA, Internal
DVD
[313-9100]
[330-4219]
16

System Documentation
Electronic System Doc, OpenManage DVD Kit with Dell Management Console
EDOCSD
[330-3554]
[330-5280]
21

Hard Drive Configuration
RAID 5 for H700 or PERC 6/i Controllers
MSR5
[341-8777]
27

Rails
Tower Chassis, No Rails Required
TOWER
[330-4120]
28

Hardware Support Services
3 Year ProSupport and NBD On-site Service
U3IP
[989-3439]
[992-7872]
[992-7912]
[993-1910]
[993-8337]
[993-8338]
29

Installation Services
No Installation
NOINSTL
[900-9997]
32

Proactive Maintenance
Maintenance Declined
NOMAINT
[926-2979]
33

Power Supply
Energy Smart Power Supply, Redundant, 570W
RDPSUES
[330-3547]
36

Power Cords
No Additional Power Cord
NOPWRCD
[310-9057]
38

Power Cords
NEMA 5-15P to C13 Wall Plug, 125 Volt, 15 AMP, 10 Feet (3m), Power Cord
125V10F
[310-8509]
106

Hard Drives
(3) 300GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 6Gbps 3.5in Hotplug Hard Drive
30015AP
[342-2078]
[342-2078]
[342-2078]

[Khalil]

What are you going to use it for? Servers come in many flavors.
Is it going to be a domain controller? Is it going to be a Data Center? is it going to a Terminal Services server?
You mentioned a lot of different things about what is going on the Network, is all that going to be the responsiblity of the server?

I need more info so I can help you.
Start by telling us what it is going to be used for and if users will be depending on it, how many people and are they all going to be at the same location.
What Operating System do you want to use? Server 2003, Server 2008 or a Linux Distro?

[Svaneyk]

The business is a preschool with approximately 20 pc's networked, 36 employees and 250 children. The operating software will be SBS2011 and Exchange server 2010. Uses for the server include:

email for ~36 employees
Website hosting for the school
Proprietary software called school leader that tracks a numer of key elements input from the class rooms etc.
We broadcast emails with candid photo's of the kids to parent along with a summary of what they learned that week.
Storage for daily uploads of photos's from each of the classrooms.
Quickbooks

I believe that's it. We also are installing a video camera system in the school that feeds into an offsite server for rebroadcast on parent demand. I'm not sure that this is comprehensive, but it's close.

[Khalil]

I would want many cores and 32GB of memory for all that.

Newegg.com - AMD Opteron 6168 Magny-Cours 1.9GHz 12 x 512KB L2 Cache 12MB L3 Cache Socket G34 115W 12-Core Server Processor OS6168WKTCEGOWOF
Newegg.com - SUPERMICRO MBD-H8SGL-O Socket G34 AMD SR5650 ATX AMD Opteron 6100 Series 8/12-Core ready Server Motherboard
Newegg.com - CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CML16GX3M4A1600C9 x 2
Newegg.com - Western Digital RE4 WD1003FBYX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Enterprise Hard Drive -Bare Drive x 2 Raid 1
Newegg.com - areca ARC-1200 PCI Express SATA Controller Card
Newegg.com - ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS - CD / DVD Burners
Newegg.com - Antec TITAN650 Black Steel Pedestal Server Case w/ 650W Power Supply 4 x 5.25" (one with 5.25" to 3.5" adapter) External 5.25" Drive Bays
That is less than $2000 Plus your OS, this will be a very capable system with a single 12 core CPU that will require very little maintenance compared to a multi socket rig!
I have about 15 of these out there with the same or similar configurations handling much bigger tasks than what you are looking to do.
Only thing is, do you feel comfortable building it yourself?

[Svaneyk]

The build I think I could do. The consultant made a pretty compelling case to go with a Dell/HP server for a variety of other reasons such as:

Excellent diagnostics to proactively alert for possible critical failures before those failures occur.

· Onboard power surge and spike lockouts to protect the server circuitry.

· True failover and hot-swap (zero downtime) for hard drives, fans, and power supplies.

· iDRAC out-of-band server management cards that allow 100% control of the server from a remote location, just as if you were standing in front of the server (saving you drive time fees every time we or another IT service provider needs to access the pre-Windows boot process or start a server from a cold boot).

· “One throat to choke” whenever a warranty event occurs. Instead of having one manufacturer for the hard drives, another for the mainboard, another for the drive controller, another for the network card, etc., you have one entity that is responsible for the entire machine. BTW, VentureNet is a Dell Premier Partner and we are Warranty Certified for all their server and business-class PC and workstation products, so we can get warranty parts overnight without having to justify the request with anyone.

· Single source for device driver updates – simplifies and reduces cost of administration. Dell’s driver and firmware updates tools are outstanding, and make quick work of keeping the server updated to optimal levels.


All that said, the build you posted is about $2,500 less that the dell. Thanks much for putting that build together for me. I appreciate it.

[rwest]

What about just buying the software(or similiar) the Dell has preinstalled? Even at a cost of $1000 for the software. $1500 in savings is nothing to sneeze at.

[Tin]

Originally Posted by Svaneyk The build I think I could do. The consultant made a pretty compelling case to go with a Dell/HP server for a variety of other reasons such as: Excellent diagnostics to proactively alert for possible critical failures before those failures occur. · Onboard power surge and spike lockouts to protect the server circuitry. · True failover and hot-swap (zero downtime) for hard drives, fans, and power supplies. · iDRAC out-of-band server management cards that allow 100% control of the server from a remote location, just as if you were standing in front of the server (saving you drive time fees every time we or another IT service provider needs to access the pre-Windows boot process or start a server from a cold boot). · “One throat to choke” whenever a warranty event occurs. Instead of having one manufacturer for the hard drives, another for the mainboard, another for the drive controller, another for the network card, etc., you have one entity that is responsible for the entire machine. BTW, VentureNet is a Dell Premier Partner and we are Warranty Certified for all their server and business-class PC and workstation products, so we can get warranty parts overnight without having to justify the request with anyone. · Single source for device driver updates – simplifies and reduces cost of administration. Dell’s driver and firmware updates tools are outstanding, and make quick work of keeping the server updated to optimal levels. All that said, the build you posted is about $2,500 less that the dell. Thanks much for putting that build together for me. I appreciate it.

I suggest you look into Linux for your server OS. Redhat Enterprise is the industry standard Linux server OS, and it provides all of the features you seek without having to pay the HP/Dell-tax for features that are already included in Redhat. The beauty of the Linux kernel as that drivers are included in it, and drivers will be updated when the kernel is updated. Linux takes a "if its not broke, dont fix it" approach. A kernel update is really only necessary for security reasons. The system can be remotely managed via SSH, not to mention Linux RAID is more stable than hardware RAID. With hardware RAID, youre bound to one controller, with Linux RAID, its at the OS level so it can be easily migrated in the future. IMO, a good array would be a RAID 10 with 2 hot spares. Itll provide a mirror for integrity, striping for speed, and a very high degree of fault tolerance. In the event of a drive failure, the faulty drive can be dropped from the array and the hot spare added in a matter of seconds over an SSH terminal. Just a little food for thought.

[glc]

I'm not going to quibble with Khalil's build, (I'd personally use Intel) but there are items I'd change. I would use 2 drives in RAID 1 on the motherboard controller for the OS and apps, then I would get a 8 port RAID card (preferably Adaptec) and run at least 5 drives for data - at least 4 in RAID 5 and at least one hotspare. All drives would be Western Digital RAID-duty SATA (such as the RE4). I would also use ECC registered RAM. This would require a case with more drive bays or a hotswap cage.

There is one place where the Dell looks very deficient to me - only 3 drives in RAID 5, and 15k rpm SAS drives are a needless expense.

[Khalil]

Originally Posted by glc I'm not going to quibble with Khalil's build, (I'd personally use Intel) but there are items I'd change. I would use 2 drives in RAID 1 on the motherboard controller for the OS and apps, then I would get a 8 port RAID card (preferably Adaptec) and run at least 5 drives for data - at least 4 in RAID 5 and at least one hotspare. All drives would be Western Digital RAID-duty SATA (such as the RE4). I would also use ECC registered RAM. This would require a case with more drive bays or a hotswap cage. There is one place where the Dell looks very deficient to me - only 3 drives in RAID 5, and 15k rpm SAS drives are a needless expense.

Was trying to give the OP a budget build, what you suggested is definately a better way to go however the Opterons are a much better way to go than the Xeons dollar for dollar and that is a fact.

Onboard power surge and spike lockouts to protect the server circuitry.

This is a myth and rarely ever helps!

True failover and hot-swap (zero downtime) for hard drives, fans, and power supplies.

Hotswap is not a sure thing, there is no such thing as zero downtime.

I would not buy a Dell server if it was free. You are far better off talking to supermicro if you don't want to build your own.

Linux would be a far better way to go than windows if you are willing to take the time to learn.

[Svaneyk]

Linux intrigues me but I know I won't be working on this set up for the most part and I don't know how user friendly this will be for the average employee. Also, I'm less concerned with it being a "budget" build than better than Dell for the price. My personal experience with Dell PC's has never been the best.

[Khalil]

Just because the server is running on Linux the PC users on the network don't have to, they can be on Micro$oft PCs and would not even know the server was on a Linux distro.
There are other email solutions that are far cheaper than Exchange that do a great job and work with any PC mail client.
Like I said if you can take the time and learn how to setup a Linux server you can save a lot of money and alot of headaches in the long run. Linux server are far more powerful and stable than Micro$oft!
What I did for a company that had 14 users and needed to host Quick Books on the server is run the server with Ubuntu Server installed VM and then installed a windows 7 Pro to host some of the software that required Micro$soft, in turn I saved them the hefty price of server 2008.
Linux offers far better, lighter and faster terminal services as well.
With a Linux server you can get away with lesser hardware and get better faster performance!

Also, I'm less concerned with it being a "budget" build than better than Dell for the price.

Then follow glc's advice regarding Raid 5 The 8 core machine I recomended will outperform that Dell you were quoted.

[Tin]

On a Linux server, the most widely used email services are Postfix (SMTP) and Dovecot (POP3/IMAP). You could also sub Courier for Dovecot, and both also offer TLS or SSL encryption should the need arise for your users to access their email boxes from home. On top of that, you could install Spamassassin and ClamAV to scan all incoming emails to filter out all the junk. Should you choose to run Linux, I highly suggest using Linux mdadm RAID. Its darn fast, and doesnt give you any headaches. This way, youre not card dependent. You can RAID across different controllers no problem, and add as many drives to your array as needed. Ive had more fits with hardware RAID controllers than I care to count. With Linux RAID, Ive had no issues...works smooth as butter. Not to mention array build times are exponentially faster with Linux RAID, plus its far easier to add a hot spare to the array than it is with a hardware RAID card. The downtime on a degraded Linux array is mere seconds. Just issue a command to add the spare to the array, then replace the faulty drive at your leisure. Most Linux servers Ive worked on used Linux RAID, not many of them used a hardware controller. That alone, to me, is a testament to the stability, scalability, and ease of management which comes with choosing it over a hardware solution. Heres some good reading. http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/008696.html http://linux.yyz.us/why-software-raid.html