Potential Upgrade

[Extremerc12]

Hello all,

I have been kicking around for a bit contemplating doing a little upgrade to my system. As some of you know, I am an avid gamer and by trade an engineer so I do a fair amount of AutoCAD and SolidWorks drawings and what have you.

I am looking to run with an Intel build this time around. Seems I will get more performance for the money versus a higher end Phenom II for my current system.

Currently I am looking at running with the Core i5 2500K (what is recommended everytime) and a Corsair Vengeance (2x4 I think would be adequate). What I am have trouble finding (well not finding, but rather choosing) an adequate motherboard that is SLI capable. Right now I am currently running one (1) EVGA GTX 570 Superclock, but have been thinking more so recently about adding another card. With that said, what would be a good recommendation? I have used Asus primarily the past six or so years, but would be open to other suggestions. I do also build with Gigabyte boards, but in recent years have had issues with caps blowing and having to send the boards back to Gigabyte.

As far as the usual questions go, this upgrade would go into the current rig in my signature. Everything will be reused aside from the motherboard, cpu and ram. I am not constrained by any budgets, but I also don't think a $400 motherboard is going to provide me with anything more than say a $199 Sabertooth P67 or something of the like.

I am looking for a nice performance upgrade over my current AMD setup.

Thanks
Chris

[jdeb]

ASUS SABERTOOTH P67 (REV 3.0) LGA 1155 Intel P67
Newegg.com - ASUS SABERTOOTH P67 (REV 3.0) LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

Corsair Vengeance Memory 1.5V

I usually put the i7-2600K CPU in for workstations, it helps a little with rendering but is arguable whether it is worth the extra memory. I do it if the customer can afford it and believe that future software releases may take advantage of certain features better.

You should also consider a workstation card (if you don't game) if you can afford it in the future. I do not see a huge improvement with SLI setups, however it is more noticeable with your applications vs. games.

[Extremerc12]

Jdeb,

Thanks for the response. I was a bit up in the air regarding the SLI on the 570 as the card is already very good with just one installed. I did an SLI setup a few years back, but that is when money was a bit tight and I didn't use very high end cards. Wasn't really sure if it was worth it or not.

I have read that Intel plans a price drop on the i5 and i7 soon. Any truth to that at all? I was thinking the same regarding the i5 and i7. I was under the impression the i5 is the best bang for the buck with the best performance for the money.

Regarding AutoCAD, at the moment I am using 2012. It might just be me, but it seems a lot more of a resource hog than previous iterations. I was using 2009 prior to the upgrade.

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by Extremerc12 Jdeb, Thanks for the response. I was a bit up in the air regarding the SLI on the 570 as the card is already very good with just one installed. I did an SLI setup a few years back, but that is when money was a bit tight and I didn't use very high end cards. Wasn't really sure if it was worth it or not. I have read that Intel plans a price drop on the i5 and i7 soon. Any truth to that at all? I was thinking the same regarding the i5 and i7. I was under the impression the i5 is the best bang for the buck with the best performance for the money. Regarding AutoCAD, at the moment I am using 2012. It might just be me, but it seems a lot more of a resource hog than previous iterations. I was using 2009 prior to the upgrade.

Well the Sabertooth is a great workstation board and I prefer it with the i7 but yes, the i5 2500K is a great value. You could also boost performance by getting an additional hard drive and throw it in a Rosewill enclosure for use as a scratch disk.

For what it is worth, I just finished putting together a ASUS Sabertooth 990FX / AMD FX-8150 and ATI V7300 GPU and it is amazing, definitely faster than an i5 and close or the same as the i7. The customer is going to be very happy.

[Extremerc12]

I had been waiting on the FX series chips, but after reading several reviews and what have you, I really didn't get the impression that it was all that good. Seems AutoCAD and Solidworks would benefit from that setup, but I think gaming performance is below the i5 as well as the Phenom 980 and X6. Now with that said, I am not 100% sold on the reviews performed by Tomshardware and anandtech. Those sites used the AMD/ASUS official testing platform with a non retail CPU. Hardheaven used an ASRock board as opposed to the Asus Crosshair and that test revealed some different results.

AMD FX-8150 Black Edition 8-Core Processor vs Core i7-2600K Review - Introduction

Like I said, I am not sure of how the processor is going to perform yet. I certainly do not want to fall below the performance I am currently obtaining.

Jdeb, you make mention of a scratch disk, what do you mean by that? I probably know what you are talking about, but I don't think I ever remember hearing that terminology before.

[jdeb]

Use an Extra Drive As a Scratch Disk for Increased Speed and Space

Adobe Photoshop CS5 * Memory and performance

I read the reviews as well and was a little bummed but I had already committed to an AMD setup with the customer. I can see it will not be a big deal with applications that do not utilize multiple core technology like some games. The customer does not play games at all. There are so many tweaks in the BIOS for this CPU, it is mind boggling but at default it is just fine. I have no problem with either setup but will usually stick with the i7/XMP/SabertoothP67 setup for mid-level workstation builds.

[Extremerc12]

Jdeb,

Thanks for the link to the scratch disk, I will take a look at it. I am thinking about going with the i7 and the sabertooth as it seems like a pretty significant upgrade over my current build and should game and and run AutoCAD without issue. Since ram is cheap, does it pay to get more ram, or is it not really worth it?

[glc]

I would go with a Z68 board.

Newegg.com - ASUS P8Z68-V PRO LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS

[David M]

In his first post he says he is an avid gamer. I'm not the expert but would a workstation card be suitable?

If you have applications that utilize multi-threading then you want the 2600 over the 2500.

[Extremerc12]

GLC,

What would the difference be between the P67 vs. P68? I am not up to speed on Intel systems. As I suggested, I am currently running an EVGA GTX 570SC. The system is kind of a jack of all trades at this point. Its primarily a gaming machine, but more so in the past few months I have been bringing work home with me, so AutoCAD and the like have become more common outside of my office.

Thanks

[glc]

The Z68 chipset is what the P67 should have been. It has SSD caching (Intel Smart Response Technology) and the ability to team the onboard video with a card (Lucid Virtu).

[Extremerc12]

GLC,

I know you suggested a Z68 board already, but I have been looking a some others.

Asus
Newegg.com - ASUS P8Z68 Deluxe LGA 1155 Intel Z68 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS

Gigabyte
Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-Z68XP-UD3P LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

What are your thoughts on those two boards. I noticed there are no Sabertooth Z68 boards.

[glc]

Why spend extra for the Deluxe? What does it have that the Pro doesn't that you need?

[Extremerc12]

The deluxe wasn't supposed to be linked. I wasn't paying attention. This was the board I was supposed to link in was an MSI board.

Newegg.com - MSI Z68A-GD65 (G3) LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS

[jdeb]

It has been my experience that the P67 has better performance in the workstation arena over Z68. I would go with the P67 or AM3+ / Bulldozer over a Z68. General or business computing then Z68 is the better choice.

[Extremerc12]

How would going with the P67 effect my gaming and what have you. Keep in mind, as I stated prior, I primarily game on this machine but I do some work from home. I would say its a 80/20 split with the latter being work related. Working from home doesn't always occur but it is something I wanted to mention.

[jdeb]

P67 does not support the use of integrated graphics – but in trade supports the ability to run two dedicated video cards (for Crossfire or SLI, if motherboard manufacturers license those technologies). It also is capable of being overclocked, and that combination of features have make it ideal for gamers and enthusiasts.

Z68 combines the performance-oriented features of P67 with the onboard graphics options of H67. This opens up the option for enthusiasts who want to have a powerful video card while also being able to access features of the on-chip Intel HD graphics, like Quick Sync, without needing multiple monitors. However, using both of those together requires third-party software from LucidLogix – which isn’t ideal, as it means depending on yet another layer of complication in order to access all the features of the hardware. Quick Sync in particular is also only supported by a few video transcoding programs, so unless you use software that is designed to work with it then there would be no need for Z68 over P67.

In regards to the Z68 SSD caching, it really was designed for Enterprise customers looking for an economical way to boost performance of their mechanical or spin drives. In terms of sheer performance gain, a larger SSD drive loaded with OS and applications far and away, produces a more desirable performance gain as compared to the SSD caching feature.

In conclusion, I believe the P67 chipset offers you a better experience with gaming out of the box and also gives you advanced BIOS features that enthusiasts thrive for. To say Z68 is what P67 should have been is a little misleading (I have said it before) but in reality, they are two distinctly different chipsets that offer unique benefits for different users.

[Extremerc12]

Jdeb,

Thank you for that breakdown regarding the P67 vs. the Z68. It definitely sheds some more light on the difference between the two chip sets. I was trying to look at the two different chipsets from a practical standpoint. What I mean by that is determining whether or not I really needed the onboard video to help or as you stated not help due to the short list of encoders that do in fact use it. I think if it somehow helped with processing some of the information in a game, it might be beneficial as my 570 would be able to drive performance more.

Right now, I do not have an SSD, so the SSD caching wouldn't be something I could perform. In the future I will add an SSD, but I will more than likely put my OS on the SSD and install all my programs on my WD Cavier Black.

In your expert opinion, the Sabertooth is the P67 board of choice? I am also not opposed to a Gigabyte board if there is one preferred over the Sabertooth.

Since this is my first adventure back to the Intel world, I am looking to learn as much as I can, and make sure I purchase the most reliable components.

[jdeb]

Yes, I think the Asus Sabertooth P67 is the best choice. Oh, and get as much memory as you can afford because it is cheap right now.

[Extremerc12]

Let me ask this question. I read and listened to Intel's interpretation of how their Z68 chipset works in regards to using the CPU video ability. I havn't found anything to answer this question, but can that auto switching between video sources be disabled. In other words, can a discrete graphics card be used 100% of the time, or does it not work like that?

Has Asus solved the issues pertaining to the Sabertooth boards? I know they were having memory and crashing issues.

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by Extremerc12 Let me ask this question. I read and listened to Intel's interpretation of how their Z68 chipset works in regards to using the CPU video ability. I havn't found anything to answer this question, but can that auto switching between video sources be disabled. In other words, can a discrete graphics card be used 100% of the time, or does it not work like that? Has Asus solved the issues pertaining to the Sabertooth boards? I know they were having memory and crashing issues.

I do not believe it can be disabled or I have not found it in the BIOS.

Issues with memory and crashing? I have no idea what you are talking about. I have not encountered any issues. People often buy the wrong memory or are overclocking poorly and may run into issues. Out of the box with default settings and proper memory, it is very stable and fast. I do recall a user on this board having issues but they were overclocking it at crazy levels using an air cooler. It may be the best motherboard (dollar value) on the market in my opinion. I have at least 12 workstations (P67) out there and besides the very first one (prior to the REV 3.0) they have been flawless. I have many X58's out there as well and the same results.

Go with a Gigabyte board if you trust it more, makes no difference to me. Gigabyte makes a good board. I just stick with what works and the Sabertooth has not let me down.

[Extremerc12]

Jdeb,

I am not suggesting I want to go Gigabyte. I have used Asus exclusively for years now. I was implying that those are the only two manufacturers I have any good things to say about.

I may have misspoke about the Sabertooth as you have suggested. You are in fact correct with the issues many are experiencing. After I posted up that reply, I got into a lengthy thread regarding the Sabertooth and the issues many were having with it.

You may have figured this out, but I like everything to be perfect in an imperfect world. This is just my naive nature speaking but I think you understand.

[glc]

P67 does not support the use of integrated graphics – but in trade supports the ability to run two dedicated video cards (for Crossfire or SLI, if motherboard manufacturers license those technologies).

Z68 supports SLI and Crossfire too with 2 cards.

can a discrete graphics card be used 100% of the time

Yes, and there's no settings required, simply install the video card and connect the monitor to it. The only way to enable the auto switching is by installing Lucid Virtu.

It's my opinion that Z68 is more stable and bug-free than P67.

[Extremerc12]

Jdeb/GLC,

I appreciate all your help with this, especially the learning experiencing regarding Intel systems.

Just to make sure I am not spinning my wheels here, regardless of whether I go with an i5 or i7, I would see a pretty significant upgrade over my Phenom system? Granted, my harddrive is the weakest link, but an SSD will be added to the system in the future.

Again, Thanks

[Extremerc12]

At this point in time, I thinking of adding in an SSD as well. What is the recommendation on SSD's these days? Intel 320 Series still the primary choice, or have others stepped up to the plate?

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by Extremerc12 At this point in time, I thinking of adding in an SSD as well. What is the recommendation on SSD's these days? Intel 320 Series still the primary choice, or have others stepped up to the plate?

Intel 320 if using as an ssd caching drive is fine, no need to go larger than 64GB

Intel 510 if using for OS and applications. No smaller than 120gb, I think that is the smallest anyway.

You should see a significant performance upgrade with either Z68, or P67 chipset. Adding an SSD (Intel 510) helps as well.

[Extremerc12]

I have seen some combos around when looking at different websites, and have come across this particular one on Newegg.

Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more!

It happens to be a Gigabyte board with an I7-2600k. I didn't look at the the combo because it had the Gigabyte board but more because of the price differential between the the I5 and Asus P8Z68-V Pro I was leaning towards. In any event, we look at a price differential of $59 rounded of course. I am looking to get some feedback on that board. If I was to go with the combo, I was concerned with what some of the reviewers were talking about with the "endless power cycle".

Gut instinct says stick with Asus as I have been for years, but I couldn't help but ponder this one.

[Extremerc12]

So here is what I am thinking. If I am going this route I will need to pull the trigger tomorrow.

Newegg.com - CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9

Newegg.com - ASUS P8Z68-V PRO LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS

Newegg.com - Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500K

Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R1 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel 1366/1155 and AMD FM1/AM3+

Newegg.com - Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

I only plan on putting Win 7 on the SSD. I would need to move My Documents and what have you over to my WD Black drive. I am electing for the Hyper 212 largely due to the fact that I will overclock the i5, there is no doubt about that.

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by Extremerc12 So here is what I am thinking. If I am going this route I will need to pull the trigger tomorrow. Newegg.com - CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9 Newegg.com - ASUS P8Z68-V PRO LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS Newegg.com - Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500K Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R1 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel 1366/1155 and AMD FM1/AM3+ Newegg.com - Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) I only plan on putting Win 7 on the SSD. I would need to move My Documents and what have you over to my WD Black drive. I am electing for the Hyper 212 largely due to the fact that I will overclock the i5, there is no doubt about that.

Just use that drive as a caching drive, it will only max benefit you if you go with a larger one and include applications. Set up the caching in the BIOS and enjoy a balanced overall performance. Use your sataIII spin drive for OS and apps. You will be very happy.

I also have thoroughly enjoyed your thread. I like your approach, patience, and how you compiled your decision. You are a wise person and look forward to your future threads.

[glc]

If you are going to use a large aftermarket cooler, you should get the low profile version of that ram.

Newegg.com - CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Profile Desktop Memory Model CML8GX3M2A1600C9