Power source issues

[redshift_91]

Okay, I have been researching parts for quite a while to build my own performance computer.

Processor: Intel core 2 Quad q9450, I eventually plan to overclock it to around 1.4 volts on the cpu or around 3.7 GHz
Motherboard: Intel DP45SG Extreme Series
GPU: nvidia gtx295, eventually I want to add a second
case: Thermaltake V3 Black Edition SECC
cooling: Corsair Cooling Hydro Series H50
Memory: 2X Patriot Signature 4 GB PC3-10600
HDD: Seagate ST3500630AS 500GB SATA/300 7200RPM 16MB cache
Optical: I have a lightscribe DVD recording drive on a shuttle XPC I'm going to transplant.

My problem, I can't get a straight story or good direction on a power supply, and I want to know if anyone can tell me anything about the list I gave, am I missing anything else? Please help me out.

[redshift_91]

oh, and this is my first build

[glc]

Why are you building with obsolete technology? Socket 775 and Nvidia 200 series are several years old.

Please give us a budget for the computer case and all its contents and we can recommend something that's up to date.

[redshift_91]

Is there a problem building a system on older components? If so you can pretty much skip everything below and if you could explain that to me, that would be great.

Okay, so far my shopping list is in the 430 dollar range for the parts listed, the cpu I have at $60 and the GPU is $70. I'm a college student and I just want to build a computer just to do it. I actually intentionally went back a couple of generations, I wanted a cheap quad with good overclockability on a motherboard that supported pci-e and dual channel 1333MHz DDR3.

I didn't want to break the bank if it blew up in my face, conversely if it was a success, I want it to be a system that is more capable then my laptop(Samsung RF-510-SO2). Disregarding brand, are all power supplies of the same wattage the same, if not, what's the difference, and how much wattage do I need?

[glc]

There is a huge difference in power supply quality.

That motherboard does not support SLI, so a pair of 295's will do you no good whatsoever. Also, Intel branded motherboards may not allow you to overclock.

This is the cheapest PSU that I'd trust to run ONE of those cards:

Newegg.com - Antec EarthWatts EA-650 GREEN 650W ATX12V v2.3 SLI Ready CrossFire Certified 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply

[redshift_91]

Thank you, I had figured it wouldn't support, but I was hoping, but that's not the big deal. Thanks for the power supply recommendation, I was originally looking at 650W corsairs, but ASUS's calculator told me I needed 1150W minimum

[redshift_91]

here is Amazon's depiction of the MoBo:
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-DP45SG-E.../dp/B001BN3548

It seems sad that it has 2 pci-e 2.0, but no SLI only crossfire

[redshift_91]

what's your thoughts on this as an alternative?
http://www.amazon.com/Striker-II-For...1255155&sr=8-1

how would an 2X gtx 295 on the nForce 780 change your power supply recommendation.

Sorry, I don't men to send a million questions one at a time, but I do want to SLI 2 GTX 295's that's about the only upgrade possible on a 775 socke mother board with a core 2 quad (other then shelling for the q9770 but those are still way over priced and with good overclocking, totally unnecessary)

any opinions?

[redshift_91]

lastly, EVGA and ASUS offer nForce 780i boards, I like ASUS, but the EVGA is comparable, what's the differences betwenn vendors, thanks for helping me out.

[glc]

780i boards are junk.

Why on earth do you want to SLI a pair of 295's? I think you need to completely review your priorities for this system.

[redshift_91]

okay, if I forgo SLI as a consideration, would an Asus/Evga 790i be a better option then the intel p45 extreme quoted in my original parts list?

[jdeb]

You are not going to be happy with that board or either one for that matter. You will actually have better shot at success with current hardware. Don't waste your money on old technology, it is bad enough that current hardware is outdated in six months.

Of the items you have listed, what have you purchased so far?

[Sourtop]

If I were you I would wait until hard drives prices have dropped back down (I think I read this is expected around late Q1?) because if your budget is $500 you're going to end up spending almost half of it on a decent hard drive. In the mean time you could save up some more money to up your budget. Even with an extra $200 you could make a pretty good gaming or performance computer.

[redshift_91]

none, just picking looking for cheap stuff so I can experiment without fear

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by redshift_91 none, just picking looking for cheap stuff so I can experiment without fear

If you want to overclock, experiment, and keep the cost down, you are better off going with a AMD FM1 setup. It allows you good overclocking features, and dual graphics on a budget. You can tweak your heart away.

BIOSTAR TA75A+ FM1
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138331

AMD A8-3850 Llano 2.9GHz Socket FM1
Newegg.com - AMD A8-3850 Llano 2.9GHz Socket FM1 100W Quad-Core Desktop APU with DirectX 11 Graphic AMD Radeon HD 6550D AD3850WNZ43GX - Processors - Desktops

COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO
Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R1 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel 1366/1155 and AMD FM1/AM3+

CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
Newegg.com - CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CML8GX3M2A1600C9B

HIS H667F1GD Radeon HD 6670 1GB 128-bit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161375


http://www.amd.com/us/products/techn...raphics.aspx#3


http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/26...plete-analysis

[David M]

In reading through the thread, I was just going to suggest letting jdeb or glc design you a complete system given your budget and intended use. I think this is the way to go about it. They both build computers professionally.

Going back a couple generations is not necessarily a better deal when it is quite often the case that current generation hardware can give you better bang for the buck, is quite often more suitable for running current generation software and there is no problem with trying to find quite often discontinued parts.

You said how much the parts add up to so far but you never gave a budget. What is the most you want to spend?

What do you plan on doing with your computer?

Both of these factors make a difference in what hardware you want.

[jdeb]

If you read up on the link from Tom's Hardware, you will find a pretty nice guide into the tweaks you can accomplish with this board, BIOS, and chip-set. The neat thing is you can essentially do all your experimenting without the HD6670 GPU which is pretty cool. Add that GPU and you essentially gain the benefit of a impressive crossfire configuration, see link below...

Dual Graphics: How Does Is Perform? : AMD A8-3850 Review: Llano Rocks Entry-Level Desktops

Is it the ultimate gaming experience? No but considering your intention, overclocking ambition, and budget, this build may be the ideal scenario for you. It accomplishes new technology, stability, advanced configuration, and ease of installation. Pick up an Antec 500w power supply, case, dvd drive, and sata III hard drive and your all set. You could also back down the memory to 4gb using the same brand and type for additional savings.

The configuration I gave you comes in at 420.00. Eliminate the GPU for a later date, back off to 4gb of ram and your sitting at 320.00 before case, dvd, and power supply.

[redshift_91]

A number of things have pointed me in the direction of waiting.

(1) Ivy Bridge
(2) Kepler
(3) the price hike in HDDs

I guess I've honed in on something that is still "obsolete" but less so then when I began. Kepler's release will likely place an nvidia gtx 5xx in my price range and Ivy bridge could put a nehalem i7 cpu in my price point. HDDs should halve in price(I only want 500GB at 7200rpm). I'd almost bet I could build that pc for 700(i should pick up at least 100 in a few months) for 100, I have the case, liguid cooling(and a high rated unit at that), and the optical drive. From there Kepler should further lower the low price of a gtx 550 ti.

does this sound more reasonable, any arguments or advice?

[redshift_91]

I just want to impress myself and do software emulation

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by redshift_91 A number of things have pointed me in the direction of waiting. (1) Ivy Bridge (2) Kepler (3) the price hike in HDDs I guess I've honed in on something that is still "obsolete" but less so then when I began. Kepler's release will likely place an nvidia gtx 5xx in my price range and Ivy bridge could put a nehalem i7 cpu in my price point. HDDs should halve in price(I only want 500GB at 7200rpm). I'd almost bet I could build that pc for 700(i should pick up at least 100 in a few months) for 100, I have the case, liguid cooling(and a high rated unit at that), and the optical drive. From there Kepler should further lower the low price of a gtx 550 ti. does this sound more reasonable, any arguments or advice?

A higher budget will allow for better hardware. I would wait for the dust to settle on the Ivy Bridge, make sure the hardware is stable before purchase. From what I read the Kepler's will start with a 128-bit GDDR5 memory bus and implement them in the entry level GPU's first so you may be looking at a longer wait for the desired GPU. From what I have been reading, I would not hold your breath on hard drive prices coming down any time soon. Your budget of 700.00 will not get it done for Ivy Bridge. I can see a CPU/motherboard/memory being 450.00-500.00 on the low end to start out. That will leave you 200.00 for a case, power supply, dvd, and GPU....

I still stand by my APU recommendation at this time.

[redshift_91]

Buying Ivy would negate the very reason I began looking at core 2 quads, Ii meant that Ivy could put some 2 year old or even 1 year old i7 or i5(I believe the i3 is not overclockable) and subsequent motherboards on the market that are in good shape and I found a couple 550's fron evga for 140, cheaper then I thought they'd be.

I am only speculating, and if none of this happens, I still can't go wrong with the AMD rig you suggested wwith the bonus that hard drives would be cheaper. I was more or less Christmas shopping from the beginining. I was thinking March or April, does that sound long enough. Will the first gen i5/i7 become more affordable after Ivy along with socket 1366 motherboards? I still don't really care if I'm up to date, but it wouldn't be more out dated then my notebook.

[glc]

Hopefully, hard drive prices will be coming back down in the spring.

I can't speak for the AMD side of the house, but I am going to guess that the most "bang for the buck" on the Intel side in the spring will be Sandy Bridge. 1366 has been a very fussy platform and Sandy Bridge is actually outperforming it. The easily overclockable Sandy Bridge "K" series CPU's with the 3000 video on a Z68 chipset are what I'd be keeping an eye on.

I do not like the concept of teaming 2 low end GPU's together. This increases power requirements considerably and it does absolutely nothing for you except in games that can take advantage of it.

[redshift_91]

I know intel made large strides in graphics with sandy bridge, would it be smarter to go without a gpu and go 2500k/ 2600k and wait until September for my birthdar to get something with a 560 ti on board, then, that should leave my initail build sub 700(supposing that J was already waiting till March/April) snagging some used by someone on the bleeding edge

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by redshift_91 I know intel made large strides in graphics with sandy bridge, would it be smarter to go without a gpu and go 2500k/ 2600k and wait until September for my birthdar to get something with a 560 ti on board, then, that should leave my initail build sub 700(supposing that J was already waiting till March/April) snagging some used by someone on the bleeding edge

That is not a bad idea at all, I actually prefer that if you are looking to do some serious gaming in the future.

The graphics on the Sandy Bridge are impressive alone but they are not nearly as good as the APU. The APU has a really small market, "budget gaming build", period. I do not know if glc has used the AMD dual graphics but my experience has been "Wow, that is impressive." Are they as good as a single GPU 560TI, heck no but on a tight budget, dual graphics has a nitch. The initial BIOS release left a little to be desired with the dual graphics but it is straight now.

ASUS P8Z68-V LGA 1155
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131729

Intel Core i5-2500K
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115072

CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233196

Antec EarthWatts EA-650 GREEN 650W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371044

$515.00

[glc]

All good choices, but there are cheaper Asus Z68 boards that perform the same.

The Z68 with Lucid Virtu can "team" the onboard graphics and a standalone card somewhat like the AMD APU, but it operates differently. It's not a Crossfire type thing, it switches video processing on and off the card and onboard depending on the demands.

[redshift_91]

back to power supplies, does anyone hve any opinion about using 2 smaller power supplies. As opposedd to a single large one. for instance, I have a 200W in the same computer that's donating the optical drive, and I was wondering if I could hae it supply my processor alone, and get a 500W for everything else Including a GPU. Does anyone have any suggestions or information?

[glc]

No, that's not feasible.

[redshift_91]

Please explain, I really do want to be in the know, I plan on working with computers for my life, getting a firm ground now will save me the learning curve.

[redshift_91]

Also, I need to get screwdrivers, because I have none, is this a good set, is there one that will do the job better/cheaper?
Amazon.com: StarTech.com 7-Piece Precision Screwdriver Computer Tool Kit (CTK100P): Electronics

[glc]

I've never seen a motherboard with two ATX connectors. There are auxiliary power supplies made for the express purpose of feeding a video card, but they are expensive and are for very high end systems.

Miniature screwdrivers like that don't really have a use in computers. All you need are a #1 and #2 Phillips and sometimes a medium straight slot, and I prefer magnetized.