Business programing, graphics, and web design system needed

[VicRauch]

target price: $700
processor: Intel
must support at least 3 monitors. Currently using 2 NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS display adapters, PCI Express
Would like space for at least 4 hard drives. I have two and need room to grow.
Wireless and wired networking
plenty of USB ports (8 to 12)
This is not a show computer. It sits on the floor under my desk. The plainer the case, the better. I'm just looking for functional
How I use my computer:
- Business programming - VB.net, Microsoft Access, Word, Excel, Power Point
- Web development - Xara Designer Pro 7
- Graphic design -- Xara Designer Pro 7, Adobe Photoshop Elements
- Video editing -- Adobe Premiere
- I need the ability to run Virtual Machines, several at one time, used for testing various client environments.

Do I need 64 bit? If so, because it is faster? I don't know.

Thanks!
Vic

[glc]

Looking at your requirements and the software you want to run, $700 is WAY too light.

[VicRauch]

Looks like I need to ask, "What will this cost?"

[Nuclear Krusader]

You already have the software, right?

[VicRauch]

Yes, I have all the software that I need. At least that I need at this point.

[glc]

Just a couple of observations - Adobe Premiere benefits greatly from a quad-core processor with hyperthreading and Nvidia graphics with as many CUDA cores as you can get. Multiple virtual machines will require a TON of ram - start thinking 16gb. Just the CPU, ram, motherboard, and video will put you in the $1000+ ballpark, you will need TWO higher end video cards.

You will need Win 7 64 bit.

Hard drive prices are insanely high right now.

I can easily build you a machine easily for $700 which would do everything you need *EXCEPT* run Premiere well, run virtual machines, or run 3 monitors. Those 3 requirements are going to kick you in the wallet HARD.

[VicRauch]

If we drop Premiere (don't do that very often), but leave in virtual machines, and 3 monitors with the cards I currently have, with an upgrade later. What does that do with the price. Plus, I have the hard drives now, but might get another when the prices come down.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Not much really, since you still need to run 3 monitors (which requires two nVidia cards) and your virtual machines.

[glc]

He can use the pair of 8400GS cards he has.

Newegg.com - XCLIO Godspeed 747 Fully Black Finish 0.5 mm SECC / ABS Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $40

Newegg.com - CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 750W ATX12V v2.31/ EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC High Performance Power Supply $85

Newegg.com - ASUS Maximus IV Gene-Z/GEN3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard $180

Newegg.com - Intel Core i5-2400 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz (3.4GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 2000 BX80623I52400 $190

Newegg.com - CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CML16GX3M4A1600C9B $95

Newegg.com - LITE-ON DVD Burner - Bulk 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model iHAS124-04 - CD / DVD Burners $18

Newegg.com - Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit - Operating Systems $140

That's $748 including the OS, provide video cards and hard drives.

[VicRauch]

GLC, Thank you very much for the specs. Greatly appreciated!
When I have the money to upgrade the video cards, what would you recommend for them. I'm wondering what advantage I would get from the upgraded video cards too.
Thanks!
Vic

[glc]

The upgraded video cards will primarily help Premiere. Go for the most CUDA cores that you can, within the constraints of the power supply and your budget.

[VicRauch]

Again, thank you very much! I rarely work with Premiere anymore, so I really doubt I will be getting them anytime soon. I will make a trip to Fry's tomorrow or Saturday to check with their prices too. I have already made a trip there about 2 or 3 weeks ago and did not feel comfortable with their advice. Yours makes a ton of sense and is greatly appreciated. I already have all these items in my shopping cart with Newegg.com so I'm ready to order as soon as I make that last check with Fry's.

Again, THANK YOU!
Vic

[jdeb]

That has to be the best recommendation I have seen in a long time. Excellent thread and recommendation glc.

[glc]

With a higher budget, you could look at an i7, a full size ATX motherboard, and a Coolermaster or Antec case. Even that 750 watt PSU can't handle 2 high end video cards, but 2 medium range cards would be fine.

[VicRauch]

Because I seem to always be changing things, I would like to know what full size motherboard you would recommend so I will have some extra slots for anything I might want to add later. Also, what would be the benefit of a Coolermaster or Antec case?

A co-worker just showed me his SSD yesterday and suggested I look into getting one, at least for my boot drive. Any reason this one: Newegg.com - OCZ Vertex Plus OCZSSD2-1VTXPL120G 2.5" 120GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) would not be a good fit?
Thanks
Vic

[glc]

Newegg.com - ASUS P8Z68-V/GEN3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS

Coolermaster and Antec cases are consistently high quality.

A SSD is a needless expense on a budget - capacities are small and their only real advantage are a shorter boot time and programs open quicker if they are installed on it. Once working, they don't do much for you.

However, a good compromise is Intel SRT, where you use a small SSD to cache the hard drive.

Newegg.com - Intel 320 Series SSDSA2CT040G3K5 2.5" 40GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

[VicRauch]

And the full size motherboard? Which one would you recommend?

Thanks for the advice on the 40g size and how to use it.

[glc]

The one in the link in my last post.

[VicRauch]

I completely missed that link up there. Thank you!

[VicRauch]

The board with more slots is the same price as the smaller board. What, if anything is the difference between the two besides size and slots? That is, what does the larger board not have that the smaller board does have that would effect me. The only things I could find different is the larger board has two less USB 2.0 connections, and missing some Gaming stuff. Anything else?
Will I need a larger case because of the larger board? If so, which one would you recommend?
I'm fairly settled on my "buy" list:

• The 120 GB SSD (I plan on System and Program Files, and work area on this drive. To utilize the speed, I'd copy my current project to the SSD. When finished, copy back to an HDD.) (budget: plan on using PayPal's "Bill Me Later" for these additional costs)
• The larger mother board for more slots
• Larger case of needed for more drive space and motherboard.
• 750 Watt power supply
• Lite-on DVD
• 16GB memory -- would 2 8GB sticks be better than 4 4GB sticks?
• Intel i5-2400 CPU

It looks like I would need to buy a controller card for my non-SATA drives. Is that correct?

[glc]

Here is the next step up in motherboards:

Newegg.com - ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS

For reliability, we recommend Intel SSD's. For speed, we recommend Kingston HyperX.

You are better off at this time with 4gb modules. 8gb modules are considerably more expensive than 4's and have higher latency.

Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Elite 430 RC-430-KWN1 Black Steel / Plastic Computer Case

You are going to have issues trying to use your IDE hard drives. IDE to SATA converters have a very spotty history, there are very few IDE cards left, and the ones that are may not be compatible with Win 7/64. I'd recommend a USB adapter to get your data off them onto SATA.

IDE/SATA to USB 2.0 Cable Adapter - Turn Your 2.5", 3.5" or 5.25" IDE or SATA Drive Into A USB Drive! 2020

With this in mind, for now till hard drive prices go back down, I'd really recommend you forego the SSD for now and get one reasonable capacity SATA drive. Upgrade later.

Newegg.com - HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000.D HDS721050DLE630 (0F13178) 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

Newegg.com - HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000.D HDS721075DLE630 (0F13179) 750GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

Newegg.com - HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000.C 0F10383 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

[VicRauch]

Once again, thank you so much for all your help! I have given advice on MS Access forums and try to be as responsive as you have been, so I know it takes time, some research, and thought. I really do appreciate it!

Looks like I'm now settled and ready to order. The step up motherboard I really don't think I need. I do have a couple of SATA drives already, so no need for a new one at this time. The IDE drives will stay in the present computer that I'm going to turn into my MS Home Server. I already have the housing and USB cable to hold the bare drives as external drives. Plus, with my wired network, I should be able to just do some overnight copying of files and directories from the current computer to the new one.
The COOLER MASTER case looks very good, and with the rebate is the same price as the smaller case. THANKS!

I'll let you know in a week or two how everything is going.
Vic

[VicRauch]

Wow, I do like this new system. But I'm having a problem with unexpected re-booting.
I have looked at the Event Viewer and in the last 24 hours I have gotten 59 "Critical" level events. The Event ID for each is "41" and the Source is "Kernel-Power" and the Task Category is "(63)"
I'm running Windows 7 Ultimate with SP1 installed, 16 GB of memory, the Intel i5, 2 NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS [Display adapter], and have a 750 watt power supply.
Any idea why the re-booting? Or what should I look for to find an answer?
Thanks!

[jdeb]

PROBLEMS with a NEW BUILD? Try This!!

It is either a bad stick of ram, faulty power supply, or BIOS update/poor settings.

I would double check the RAM settings in the BIOS and turn off any overclock. I would also check each stick of RAM as you may have a bad dimm.

Also, swap the power supply to see if the problem goes away, you may have a faulty power supply, it does happen occasionally but I suspect the CPU/Heatsink more.

Another thing to do is to pull the CPU heatsink off, clean and reapply the thermal paste. You only need a dab the size of an uncooked grain of rice, spread evenly with a credit card or razor blade, or you finger with plastic wrap pulled tight around the tip of your finger.

Description of Windows Kernel event ID 41 error in Windows 7 or in Windows Server 2008 R2: "The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first"

[VicRauch]

Thank you for such a complete list of possible causes. I built an Access database that would record the time it was started in a table. Then added the ability to pass the database a parameter so I could document when I walked away from my computer. I put a shortcut to the database in the Startup folder so it would run every time the computer booted. What I was able to then see was the computer was booting 2 hours after I last used it. The monitors were set to be turned off after 2 hours of the computer being idle. So I changed the time to 3 hours and the computer re-booted after 3 hours then.
My solution was to take the two graphics cards out and re-seat them, 3 times each. Put the system back together and after 3 hours of being idle, no reboot. So I changed the time before powering down the monitors to 1 hours and still no reboot. Last I changed it to 30 minutes. Still no reboot.
Conclusion: I'm a VERY happy camper!!!!
The SSD 120GB is VERY responsive and has the system loaded on it. It is drive C:. I have loaded all my programs on my second drive (H which is a 1 TB drive. My third drive is also a 1 TB drive which will hold all my projects and history files. I purchased a TechNet Standard subscription from Microsoft for about the same price as Windows 7 would be, but now I have access to a ton of Microsoft software for the next year. Great deal!
Again, thank you all for your fantastic help! This has been my best experience with a new computer (except the very first because there was NO conversion needed then).

PS: If anyone would like a copy of my Access database, I would be more than happy to forward it to you. It was a big help in finding the problem, and being able to see exactly when a boot would happen on this computer.