Second build after four years

[FalvinP]

Full Disclosure: This will be a rather lengthy post dealing with choosing components for a potential new build. Hopefully, I will provide enough info to get some feedback without having to answer detailed questions (although feel free to ask anything!).

I am about to embark on a writing project that deals with the local history of my small town. Because I need to be on location at the library, museum, or other sites outside my office, I decided that I wanted to buy a pretty powerful laptop and then use it as a desktop replacement via a usb 3.0 docking station. This way, I’d be able to hook up my large monitor, speakers, router etc. Then, when I left the office, all I would do is unplug the one usb cable. My budget is somewhat open-ended, but $1500 is about the top of what I want to pay, based on recommendations or revisions that may be suggested here.

I plan to initially reuse some existing components such as keyboard, mouse, speakers, monitor (although I’d like to add a second monitor in the future), powered usb hub, etc.

I also have several fairly new hard drives (WD Caviar black) that I’ll reuse.

I’d transfer the dvd burner from the old box until I decide to buy a blu-ray burner.

I realize that I’ll need Windows (64 bit) and an antivirus software (how good is the free Microsoft suite?), and whatever productivity software I choose.

So, to get things going, here are the specs on the laptop I ordered from HP:

dv6t Quad Ed
• dark umber
• Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
• 2nd generation Intel(R) Quad Core(TM) i7-2820QM (2.3 GHz, 8MB L3 Cache) w/Turbo Boost up to 3.4 GHz
• 1GB AMD Radeon(TM) HD 7470M GDDR5 Discrete Graphics(TM) [HDMI, VGA]
• 12GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
• 750GB 7200 rpm Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
• $50 OFF Microsoft(R) Office Home and Business 2010
• $30 OFF! Norton Internet Security(TM 2012 - 2 Year Subscription (activation required)
• 30% OFF 9 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
• 15.6" Full HD HP Anti-glare LED (1920 x 1080)
• Blu-ray writer & SuperMulti DVD burner
• HP TrueVision HD Webcam with Integrated Digital Microphone and HP SimplePass Fingerprint Reader
• Intel 802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R)
• Standard Keyboard with numeric keypad
• HP Home & Home Office Store in-box envelope

The unit was about $1950.00. This was probably overkill, since I’m not a gamer. However, after specking out (and ordering) this very nice laptop, I’m wondering if I shouldn’t just build a new box and then get a less expensive laptop to use out of the office. For example, I probably don’t need the full HD screen (+ $150) or the top available processor ( +$350) or 12 GB of ram (+ $200) for a laptop used primarily for writing, with a little photo editing thrown in. The 1 Gig AMD discrete graphics CARD was extra also, but I don't remember how much more.

I don’t game, but I want to do photo and video editing with Photoshop Elements/Premier Elements 10. Part of the reason I wanted a powerful laptop is so I can potentially do photo/video editing on site when I’m out taking pictures with my dslr.

I definitely wanted the portability, so I thought of the laptop. I’ve never had a laptop before so the initial allure was almost irresistible, coupled with my desire to work out of the office.

Just for fun, I decided to start investigating what a decent desktop system would spec out at.

I wanted a fairly robust system, one that I could do my photo and video editing, as well as watch/burn blu-ray disks.

I don’t know if this is overkill or not, but this is what I’ve come up with:


Case: Corsair Obsidian 650D

Newegg.com - Corsair Obsidian Series 650D (CC650DW-1) Black Steel structure with black brushed aluminum faceplate ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

I really like this case and am willing to pay the premium for it. I especially like the built in hard drive dock at the top. From what I’ve read, the front panel usb 3.0 cables have to go out the back of the case to be plugged in to the rear usb 3.0 ports. I’ve seen some workarounds using something like these two items (can’t decide which one to use):

Silverstone 19 pin usb 3.0 adapter cable

Newegg.com - Silverstone 120mm External to Internal 19 pin USB3.0 Adapter Cable Model SST-CP09

or this:

Biostar usb 3.0 cable bracket

Newegg.com - Biostar CABLEUSB3.0 USB 3.0 Cable Bracket

I’m pretty sure this motherboard will have the proper usb header on it to utilize the above cables:

Asus P8Z68-V Pro/Gen 3 motherboard

Newegg.com - ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS

What is the difference between the 67 and 68 chipset? I saw on Newegg TV that the 67 chipset came in two flavors, P and H. The P was more for overclocking the processor and the H seemed to be for getting more out of the video built into the second generation cpu that has onboard video.


Power Supply:

Corsair Professional Series Gold AX 850 watts

Newegg.com - CORSAIR Professional Series Gold AX850 (CMPSU-850AX) 850W ATX12V v2.31 / EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

For what I want to do is this overkill? I definitely want a modular unit. It’s much easier for me to work with a modular unit inside the case.

CPU:

Intel Core i7 2600k

Newegg.com - Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 3000 BX80623I72600K

I don’t plan to overclock the processor, but I don’t know about the on board graphics. With the built in graphics, can I delay getting a discrete graphics card for a while? Or, for my uses, will the i5 series be more appropriate?

Memory:

Corsair Vengeance 16 GB DDR3 1600

Newegg.com - CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9B

Would the lower profile memory, without the heat sinks, suit me just as well?

Video card:

From what I can tell, I can put off getting a video card for a while. Is this true or wise for my purposes? If need one, what would you suggest?

This is what I’ve come up with so far. These components add up to a little over $1,000.00.

Please feel free to ask for any information I’ve failed to include.

I’d appreciate your comments and suggestions.

Thank you for taking the time to read this rather long-winded post.

[glc]

The i5-2500K should be sufficient, the low profile Vengeance would be preferable (go for 8gb now, add 8 more if you find you need it), the PSU is major overkill (the TX550M is plenty), and try it first with the onboard video (you can add a card at any time). Good motherboard choice, but the non-Pro version should serve you just as well.

[FalvinP]

Thank you for your reply glc.

I've reevaluated my specs and changed the items you suggested, except for the motherboard. For only $20 difference, I wanted the added SATA 6Gb/s Support. So far, it saves a little over $200 on the cost of the components chosen so far.

Based on the recommendations, I'm now wondering if an i5 chip in a laptop would do me just as well for my purposes, thus saving even more bucks.

I have done further research on some of my items listed above, but a few questions have come up.

As I indicated in my original post, a large part of the reason I like the Corsair case is the hard drive dock on the top of the case, not to mention the glowing reviews this case has received. I don't know if this dock would be hot-swappable or not. I've read that AHCI is part of the bios in motherboards that allows this to occur. You have to make the choice about AHCI during Windows installation and then you can change the settings in the bios. Is this still correct and does the Z68 chipset support this?

I got shafted after I bought my asus P5K motherboard four years ago. Even though it was documented in the instruction manual, the AHCI capability was apparently removed from the bios due to some lawsuit or something similar. Had I bought the next model up in the P5K line this functionality would have been retained. I want to be sure I can hot swap drives in this top drive dock.

The Corsair TX 550M is listed as "semi modular" on the Newegg page. What is the difference between "semi modular" and "modular?"

[flanzig1]

Looks like the differance between modular and semi modular is whether the 24pin power cable is removable or not.

[glc]

There's more than that - here's an excellent full modular:

Newegg.com - SeaSonic M12II 520 Bronze 520W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS 12V v2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

All modulars have a permanent 24 pin and 4x4/8 pin.

[FalvinP]

For those that had the same question as I did regarding the difference between modular and semi-modular power supplies I found a review that clearly describes how the Corsair TW550M is set up.

Semi-modular does not mean that only the 24 pin and the 8 pin cables are hard wired. It's more than that.

Semi-modular merely means that some of the cables are hard wired and some are not. I guess the hard wired cables are those that people would use anyway for a typical installation and the others are used as more components are added. I don't, however, understand why two floppy connectors are hard wired, since few people use floppys any more, unless there is something I'm not seeing. Maybe it has something to do with the adapters that are mentioned in the editor's note.

Below is a chart I copied off a review of the unit on VR-Zone that shows which wires on the TW550M are hard wired and which are modular.


Native cables (hard wired)

24-pin ATX connector

1 x 4+4 pin EPS12V/ATX12V CPU connector

3 x Molex connectors

3 x SATA connectors

2 x Floppy connector*


Modular cables (detachable)

3 x Molex connectors

3 x SATA connectors

2 x 6+2 pin 12V PCIe connectors

*Editor’s note: the floppy connectors utilize Molex connectors through adapters.

[Staren]

That note tells me that the floppy connectors are simply adapter cables for the molex connections. You used to see similar cables for SATA power before that became the standard connector for hard drives. I'm glad to see that actually. I haven't used one of the Corsair modular units in a few builds so I haven't seen this yet.

[FalvinP]

That is correct. I called Corsair to say that their website leaves the impression that the unit is totally modular. The information is there, but it's buried within the cable length pdf that a lot of people won't check out.

The floppy adapters are as you said....... they merely fit at the end of an existing molex connector, whether it's one of the hard wired cables or one of the modular ones. As I mentioned before, it seems a little strange that they included this kind of connector when most people would just get a usb floppy drive if they had need for one. On reflection, my existing corsair power supply has a dedicated cable to hook up a floppy. I guess they're just trying to keep people with legacy devices happy. I do have a floppy drive from an old build lying around, so in the 1% chance I'd need it, it would be there.

I expressed my concern that it's a little misleading to call the unit modular when it is not totally modular. Most people would assume that a unit labeled modular has all detachable cables except for the two main power cables.

Thank you for your comments.

[glc]

Get the Seasonic. They make Corsair's higher end PSU's anyway.

[FalvinP]

I'll add further thoughts about my situation rather than start a new thread. Let me know if anyone thinks I should just start a new thread.

I've had my new laptop for about a month now. I ordered a top tier machine (Envy 15) from HP and then a week later thought better of it and ordered an equivalent and more cost effective laptop (also from HP) that I'm really enjoying. The laptop is the HP dv6t quad edition. It rocks!

I've thought further about doing a new desktop rig. I had originally liked the Corsair Obsidian 650D case because it had the hot swap drive bay on the top. I've come to discover that there is a handy accessory available that is a hot swap drive bay that can be installed in a 5.25 drive bay in the case. This will suit my backup needs as I like to put my backup disks into a fireproof box between backups.

This being the case, I now see no reason not to use my existing Lian Li case (listed in my sig below), which is very nice. Additionally, I believe I might be able to use my existing Corsair HX 520W power supply.

After doing further research here is a list of parts that I would need to buy :

Motherboard:

ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3

Newegg.com - ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS

Processor:

i5 2500K

Newegg.com - Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 3000 BX80623I52500K

Memory:

Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600

Newegg.com - CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CML8GX3M2A1600C9B

Hot swap bay:

StarTech HSB110SATBK 5.25in Trayless Hot Swap Mobile Rack

Newegg.com - StarTech HSB110SATBK 5.25in Trayless Hot Swap Mobile Rack for 3.5in SATA HDD with LCD & Fan

These items, along with fresh copies of Windows and Office bring the total to about $840.00

I've heard some negative things about this Asus board, even though, based on the specs, I really like the board. I've heard about problems with bent cpu socket pins that aren't covered by the warranty. According to Asus, the pins are always damaged during shipping.

Additionally, I've seen reports that the Marvell SATA lll controller doesn't work very well. Some said they don't work well with SSDs and others said that they don't work at all, even if enabled in the bios.

I've also read that, although the board is compatible with PCIe 2.0 and 3.0, the board isn't compatible with PCIe 2.1, which is the standard of most current video cards. If I decide to later get a discrete graphics card it would not be fun if it didn't work in this board, since I would not want to go PCIe 2.0 (or would I?) and I'd have to also upgrade the cpu to take advantage of PCIe 3.0.

Granted, these are Newegg and Amazon reviews and they are not always totally accurate, but they do give me pause to think. However, these reviews are definitely in the minority when compared to the total number of reviews.

Is there any reason or advantage to not use my current BFG video card (see sig) in this new build? Is it compatible with this board? How does it compare to the on-board video in the i5-2500K? If I do decide to get a graphics card in the future will my current power supply be compatible? When the time comes that SeaSonic power supply looks very attractive.

The reason I decided on the Startech hot swap bay with the fan is that there is no fan behind the 5.25 bays, although there are four fans directly below that are directly in front and directly in back of the hard drive racks. It was only $20 more than the fanless version. Is the fan needed?

The motherboard has that great q connector that makes it very easy to hook up the front panel connectors. Are the pins on the new board in the same configuration so all I have to do is unplug the q connector from the old board and then plug it into the new board without having to unplug all those itty bitty plugs? For those interested, I just checked the manual of both boards. It appears that the wiring is exactly the same. This is great!

Finally, the motherboard has a switch called TPU that enables some stable, reliable overclocking. I don't plan to do any major overclocking, but if all I have to do is use the TPU switch, would I need an after market cpu cooler or different memory? Since this older board doesn't have a cpu cutout like a lot of the newer cases do, it would be necessary to install the cooler when the motherboard is out of the case. If I do need a cooler, what bang for the buck cooler would you recommend? If different memory is needed, what would you suggest?

At some point in the future I'll want to get an SSD to take advantage of the SSD drive caching of the i5 processor. Since I bought my case 4 1/2 years ago, before SSDs were common, there are no 2.5 inch drive bays in the case. I've just done some quick research and have found that there are numerous converters that will convert either a 5.25 in bay or a 3.5 inch bay to a 2.5 inch bay.

Thanks for taking the time to read another long post. I appriate any comments you may have. I just want to make sure I get this right.

[glc]

Get the non-Pro version of that motherboard and you won't have to deal with the crappy Marvell controller.

You are good to go with your HX520. Your video card is better than the integrated graphics, so why not get an i5-2550K?

[FalvinP]

Thanks for the reply. I will stay with my current video card. I'm a little surprised there are drivers for Win 7 64 bit available for this card.

Which leads me to your wise decision to go for the i5-2550K without the inbedded graphics. I'm a little puzzled as to why this cpu is more expensive than the i5-2500K.

I just realized that I didn't have the low profile Vengeance ram selected. I'll change that.......... which leads me back to the question of whether I need an after market cpu cooler if I use the TPU switch and, if so, which one is recommended?

As far as I can tell, the only difference between the Asus pro and non-pro versions of the P8-z68-V motherboard is the absence of the Marvell SATA lll controller. But that will leave me with only 2 SATA lll ports. My backup drive is the WD Caviar Black, SATA lll (6Gb/sec) 1TB drive, which will go into the hot swap drive bay, which can handle SATA lll drives. In the future I will probably get a 60 or 80 GB SSD to use as the hard drive cache that would use up the other SATA lll port.

Have you heard confirming reports on the poor Marvell controller? I just read on the Asus forum that it's recommended that the Marvell controller should be used only for data drives.

Oh, as an after thought..... do you know if these two Asus boards have AHCI available in the bios? I want to be able to hot swap the drive. I don't want to get screwed like I did with my current board.

Thanks again for your reply.

[glc]

The 2550K is also faster than the 2500K.

All current tech boards have AHCI. In fact, your P5K does if I'm not mistaken. My P5K Pro does.

Put your backup drive on one of the SATA II ports.

[FalvinP]

Oops! Double post below.......

[FalvinP]

Thanks for the reply. My P5K originally did have AHCI, but when I couldn't find how to enable it in the bios (even though the manual said it was there) I did some research and found that Asus had to remove it in a bios revision due to a lawsuit or something. This revised bios was on the board when I bought it, but the documentation wasn't modified to reflect this change. I was really going nuts as to why I couldn't find it until I did the research. The P5K Pro did retain this functionality.

Thanks again for all your suggestions.

[FalvinP]

After doing bunch of research over the last six weeks or so, and having bought a kick butt laptop that I really like, I've decided to wait to build for two to three months when the Ivy Bridge stuff will be out. I didn't realize until recently that a so called "tick" in the processor lineup was to be released the latter part of April. I'm not sure I'll be an "early adopter", but I'd like to get the newest processor along with the Z77 motherboard. Asus has the same basic lineup as the Z68 series.

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by FalvinP After doing bunch of research over the last six weeks or so, and having bought a kick butt laptop that I really like, I've decided to wait to build for two to three months when the Ivy Bridge stuff will be out. I didn't realize until recently that a so called "tick" in the processor lineup was to be released the latter part of April. I'm not sure I'll be an "early adopter", but I'd like to get the newest processor along with the Z77 motherboard. Asus has the same basic lineup as the Z68 series.

I like that idea. Wait a month or so to make sure there are no bugs in the chip-set. What laptop did you get?

[FalvinP]

I ordered an HP Pavilion dv6t quad edition entertainment PC with:

9 cell lithium battery
15.6" full hd antiglare screen led (1920 X 1080)
AMD 1GB GDDR5 Radeon discrete graphics
Blu-ray writer and dvd burner combo
Win 7 home premium
Intel i7-2820QM processor 2.3 GHz 8MB L3 cache
12 MB ddr3 memory
750 GB 7200rpm hard drive

I especially like the fingerprint reader. I'm really glad I paid more $ and got the anti-glare full hd screen. It's beautiful.

This is the first laptop I've ever owned and I absolutely love being able to take it places. I had thought about just getting an iPad, but, although this machine is fairly heavy, I think I'll like it better than the iPad, especially for photo editing.

This was expensive, but at the time I thought it would be a pure desktop replacement, which it will be for another 2-3 months.

Quick question: Is there any way to sync content...pictures, documents etc. between the laptop and the future desktop? I'll have some duplicate programs on them..... Photoshop Elements, Microsoft office etc. The motherboard I plan to get will have the bluetooth module and, of course, the laptop has bluetooth. Both machines will have wifi as well. I have a wifi network set up as well.

Thanks

[glc]

I'd start off with a free Dropbox account.

[jdeb]

Yup, Drop Box is the ticket

[FalvinP]

After letting this post sit idle for a couple of weeks, I've just noticed that the mainstream Asus P8-Z77 boards are out.

I'm still planning on using my existing case, but a question concerning the internal usb 3.0 header on the motherboards has me scratching my head. The Asus documentation says the the boards have an internal 19 pin usb 3.0 header. This is a male connection, if I'm not mistaken. I might upgrade the multimedia i/o ports at the top of my current case (Lian Li A70A, part PW-IO4V850) to usb 3.0. However, these have a 20 pin female connector to plug into the motherboard header. Will this work on the 19 pin header? I presume so, because there would just be one hole on the cable that would have no pin to plug into it.

The Ivy Bridge processors are due out around April 29. Then I can decide exactly what processor\motherboard\memory combo I'll end up getting, probably around the end of June or so.

Thank you for your advice.

[FalvinP]

Does anyone have an answer to my question regarding the internal USB 3 header on the motherboard? I've tried Googleing for an answer, but I haven't found the answer to my specific question. I'm not sure if the 19 pin connector is the new standard for internal usb 3.0 headers or if there is a competing 20 pin standard which is not compatable. I know that initially most of the first motherboards with usb 3.0 support did not have the internal header and thus the need for the passthrough as in the Corsair Obsidian 650D case.

If no one has an answer to my question, could someone direct me to a place where I might get an answer?

I ordered the upgraded part for my case, but discovered it has the regular usb 3.0 connectors at the end, which would normally mean that they would act as a passthrough to usb 3.0 ports at the back of the case. I didn't want this, so I've ordered an adapter that allows these to be plugged in at the the motherboard header.

However, the question still stands........... Will the 19 pin usb 3.0 header on the motherboard work with the 20 hole female connection on the adapter?

Thanks for your input.