Do I need an upgrade?

[Hippo08]

Hey guys,

So I am getting pretty excited for Diablo 3, however my current PC doesn't share the same enthusiasm. I got to play the beta and the game, even when on low, seemed to be very choppy especially with multiple people in the game. I tried a driver re-install but it did not improve the performance at all. These were at low-medium settings, no shadows, no aa, no really anything extra at all. Below are my specs and I want to know what you guys think, obviously, the gfx card is a little old, but I didn't know how outdated it was. Should I upgrade anything else?

Mobo: Asus p5q pro - Newegg.com - ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
RAM: Corsair 8gig DDR2 x2 - Newegg.com - CORSAIR XMS2 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-6400C5
CPU: Intel e8400 - Newegg.com - Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor BX80570E8400
GFX Card: 5830 - Newegg.com - HIS iCooler V H583FN1GD Radeon HD 5830 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card w/Eyefinity
PWRSPLY: Corsair TX750(3yrs old) Newegg.com - CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 750W ATX12V v2.31/ EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC High Performance Power Supply

Right now, I have the money to upgrade the entire system and am contemplating if I should or not. But if this system is killing it on everything else (I realize the system is a tad outdated, but not too far) then I will probably just upgrade graphics card. Also, I wanted to try out an SSD, but I realize I don't have any SATA3 connections, is an SSD worth it on this older style motherboard? Ehich SSD would you recommend, Intel all the way?

Thank you guys so much for taking a look at this for me, I have been away from building PC's for awhile and need the pros to help me!

EDIT: Just noticed I posted this in wrong forum, whenever you can, please move to the Computer Hardware Forum.

[Nizmo]

You definitely should, you can carry over the PSU, so you need to only replace the rest.

SSD on your current system is so not worth it, and it does not improve gaming performance either, it'll only load faster. Intel is most reliable SSD brand, but it's also most expensive, I'd say Samsung and Kingston HyperX are plenty good as well for the lower price.

And if you are getting an Nvidia GPU, don't get anything more than a GTX 560, it'll play any latest games fine, anything higher is waste of your money.

[glc]

I would upgrade only the video card for now and see how it goes.

[Hippo08]

Any recommendations in the $250 range?

Thanks in advance!

[jdeb]

HIS H785F2G2M Radeon HD 7850
Newegg.com - HIS H785F2G2M Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

[Hippo08]

Just adding one extra piece of info on here, I play on a 37" TV Screen, so the max resolution I play at is 1080p and I do not plan on using multiple monitors. Will the 7850 still be the graphics card of choice? I just want to be able to play at the highest settings with no slowdown.

Thanks,

Hippo

[glc]

Best Graphics Cards For The Money: April 2012 : Best Graphics Cards For The Money, April Update

Yep.

[Hippo08]

Hey everyone, just thought I would give a little bit of an update because I have a little bit of a concern and am not 100% what it could be.

The new graphics card is great! It is 2 inches shorter than my previous, uses only 1 PCI-e connector, and consumes less power but is much more powerful. However, for some odd reason the power just does not translate into games as well as it should.

So, for World of Warcraft as an example, when I played at max settings it would run somewhere around 50-60fps just sitting nowhere and doing nothing, but the moment you moved or went into battle, it would dip sometimes dangerously low(like in the 5-15fps range). So I turned down the settings just to medium, and it would run in the 100fps range standing still, but would still be brought to about 20fps when in action. But when I look at the temps and how hard the graphics card is working, its barely breaking a sweat. I then look at my CPU, and just sitting and doing nothing in game its at 40-50% and when it gets hectic, constantly topping 90-100%. Could this slow down be from my CPU? Do I have bad drivers or what do you think is happening that would cause such a breakdown in a game like WoW?

Thanks in advance for your help guys!

[glc]

My grandson is playing WoW fine with a E2180 CPU, 2gb ram, a Radeon 5670, and XP. His resolution is 1440x900.

[Hippo08]

Hey glc,

I am not 100% sure as to what exactly you are telling me in the previous post. Should I turn down the resolution? Should I just settle for lower performance in order to get smoother gameplay? What I should say is, while the graphics seem to slow down, there are times where it "skips" so to speak, as in a quick dip to 10-15 fps then immediately back up to 40ish fps. It makes it sometimes hard to play(this happens even at medium settings). I realize that this hardware should blow WoW out of the water, what I am telling you is it is not at this point. The question, I guess, is how to alleviate this? Should I reformat and start from scratch? I just want to be able to play my games smoothely and for them to look nice. I did not mean to offend or sound dumb, I am just really wondering why I would not be getting the "performance" so-to-speak that this computer is capable of.

Any other info you need to know I will gladly give you.

As always, thank you in advance for your continued help and support.

[Nizmo]

It sounds like a graphics driver issue, one reason why I don't use AMD GPU is due to their flaky driver.

Try uninstalling the graphics driver, use Driver Sweeper if you want, re-install the driver, if that doesn't fix it, go into bios and disable any power saving features for the CPU.

If the same problems persist, try a different GPU and see same problems occur, if not, GPU is defective, RMA it. If same problem occurs with different GPU, try a different power supply, if things work with another power supply, your PSU is faulty, RMA it. If same problem occurs with different PSU, it may be your motherboard.

[id10x]

from what i have , if you can sell your system and pay for an upgrade
is more economical . the dual cpu age are over all games now are set
to quads and it better be a good one . i7 or something , if you changed
the cpu then you need to pare it with a mb and ram so its too late for you
now to make a gpu upgrade .

sorry to appose you glc but diablo 3 means he likes more newer games his cpu is useless at dual 2.8
my cpu at 4 ghz is hardly handling these kinds of games on medium . i dont know haw its gonna
hold the rest of the components are working good , but games aer getting more demanding
reach month and am dead money wise , i guess ill have to see haw far the e8500 will take me .
i dont mind lagging for a couple of years am used to it .

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by id10x from what i have , if you can sell your system and pay for an upgrade is more economical . the dual cpu age are over all games now are set to quads and it better be a good one . i7 or something , if you changed the cpu then you need to pare it with a mb and ram so its too late for you now to make a gpu upgrade . sorry to appose you glc but diablo 3 means he likes more newer games his cpu is useless at dual 2.8 my cpu at 4 ghz is hardly handling these kinds of games on medium .

You are wrong. The recommended requirement for Diablo 3 is a 2.4Ghz Dual Core using an Intel CPU. He is running a 3.0 Ghz.. All he needs to do is get a different video card at this time and he might as well get the best one he can afford as it is easily transferable to a new build down the line. Besides he was also using a Beta version of software which can present problems by themselves.

[Hippo08]

I will try these suggestions tonight starting with a re-install of the graphics driver. Just letting you know my previous results were with my new 7850, I doubt the card is at fault here because everything seems to be running fine on it when monitoring its temps/performance. Because my CPU is spiking, maybe it is for some odd reason dumping extra work onto the CPU? I am not sure if that is even possible... haha. I may just start with a clean slate and reformat to make sure. This computer I think still has plenty of time left in it, just need to hammer down the problem. Thank you for helping me with this, I will post back with more information tonight!

[id10x]

Originally Posted by id10x diablo 3 means he likes more newer games his cpu is useless at dual 2.8

am sorry for the misunderstanding i said above if maybe he likes Diablo 3
which is a new generation game he might want to play other games also
unless he want to change his hardware for only one game .

its great diablo 3 is still making use of the gpu on the account of the cpu
but i have a similar system as you see and with other games his cpu
is obsolete . i7 quads are minimum for most games now .
he might even be having a bottleneck there . his gpu is way too powerful
to the cpu to cope with . or optimize .

i was having this conversation when i wanted to buy a 460gtx

Help Me Choose a Graphics Card ! - techPowerUp! Forums


look at some repliers

Originally Posted by Aleksander Dishnica with the specs you have i would recommend the msi 450GTS MSI N450GTS-M2D1GD5/OC GTS450 1GB PCI-E RETAIL - - E-SHOP.GR The gtx 460 should perform not good enough

guys here knows i dont usually argue after all everything i know i learned
from this forum but as you see at that thread i was having long arguments
about my e8500 at 4gHz being a bottle neck to the 460gtx which
is nothing compared to the 7850 beast he just bought its a shame for
it to sleep in that old box

[rwest]

Nobody has seemed to mention that he may have something running in the back ground that may be eating up resources. The frames per second drop he appears to be experiencing seems to be essentially overly taxing the system periodically. This happens when running too many processes. Yes, a quad core would help; but it wont solve the problem.

Before you do a complete reinstall, I'd reccomend (if you have the space on your hdd) partitioning off a portion and see what an OS reload will do. You dont have to activate it just for diagnosis. Load the OS, test the system, then make your determination. Reinstall if neccesary, then go thru activation or delete the second partition with the new OS load if you find it doesn't help.

[Hippo08]

Hey there, I thought I would give everyone an update as to how things have gone. I reinstalled the graphics drivers, but the same performance issues arose. To let you know, I run MSE in the background and that is it. I am very tidy when it comes to process/desktop management, a bit of a neat freak I guess. Just my game, MSE and CCC/task manager to look at temps/performance.

Yes, I made sure to restart after uninstallation and reinstallation of gfx drivers. Everything is up-to-date including Windows and drivers. Still same issue with WoW. Something I haven't tried is just lowering the resolution and see what happens. I would much rather run smoothe than choppy even if it doesn't look as pretty. Although, one would think with this setup I should be able to get both!

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by Hippo08 Hey there, I thought I would give everyone an update as to how things have gone. I reinstalled the graphics drivers, but the same performance issues arose. To let you know, I run MSE in the background and that is it. I am very tidy when it comes to process/desktop management, a bit of a neat freak I guess. Just my game, MSE and CCC/task manager to look at temps/performance. Yes, I made sure to restart after uninstallation and reinstallation of gfx drivers. Everything is up-to-date including Windows and drivers. Still same issue with WoW. Something I haven't tried is just lowering the resolution and see what happens. I would much rather run smoothe than choppy even if it doesn't look as pretty. Although, one would think with this setup I should be able to get both!

Is it only in WoW that you are having issues?

[Hippo08]

Hey jdeb,

I got home late last night and all I was able to test was WoW. Tonight, I will test the rest of the games on my computer. I will probably do SC2, LoL, Bastion, and Half-Life 2.

I am confident we will get to the bottom of this before D3 comes out!

[id10x]

you can use these benchmarks and compare it to other system/cards

PassMark Software - PC Benchmark and Test Software

Futuremark - world's most popular benchmarks and PC performance tests - Benchmarks

when i buy new hardware i compare haw it scores with similar component
in fact passmark will even show u haw good your card is doing if its not similar
to the ones in the charts then you would know at least ..

[Hippo08]

Hey everyone,

A little update, tried other games including StarCraft2, Bastion, and Team Fortress 2.

SC2 and TF2 had the choppy gameplay, with GPU never really going above 50-60% utilization, but the CPU at a constant 90-100%. Bastion, however, seemed to run fine, no choppiness at all! GPU was barely taxed even at highest settings and CPU stayed right around the 50-80% utilization. Anyone have any idea as to what is going on? I am tempted to just reformat and see what happens. Usually tends to fix most odd problems.

[birddog_61]

Originally Posted by id10x i7 quads are minimum for most games now

Show me a game that has a minimum system requirement of an I7.

[birddog_61]

Originally Posted by Hippo08 Hey everyone, A little update, tried other games including StarCraft2, Bastion, and Team Fortress 2. SC2 and TF2 had the choppy gameplay, with GPU never really going above 50-60% utilization, but the CPU at a constant 90-100%. Bastion, however, seemed to run fine, no choppiness at all! GPU was barely taxed even at highest settings and CPU stayed right around the 50-80% utilization. Anyone have any idea as to what is going on? I am tempted to just reformat and see what happens. Usually tends to fix most odd problems.

You are for sure having something odd going on. The E8400 is nothing to sneeze at, it is still a good gaming cpu all these years later. This might be dumb but are both cores working at 90-100% or just core #1?

[rwest]

Originally Posted by birddog_61 The E8400 is nothing to sneeze at, it is still a good gaming cpu all these years later.

I agree. I would be very hesitant about calling the cpu out. Here's some data:
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 PCSTATS Review - 32-Bit CPU Gaming Benchmarks: Crysis, FEAR

[jdeb]

What BIOS version are you running?

[id10x]

Originally Posted by birddog_61 Show me a game that has a minimum system requirement of an I7.

since games moved to quads they left the dual cores behind no matter haw
powerful they are . minimum requirements are useless , they are just there
to run the game not to play it .

when they ask for a quad core as minimum they dont mean core2 , by experience the buyer should get an i7 for a gaming rig .

i7 is soon to be old generation now , i5 are useless for the future

you want to see where this madness is going ?

Max Payne 3 system requirements - System Requirements

they want 6 cores not 4

Newegg.com - Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E 3.2GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 2011 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73930K

do you really think the minimum required dual cpu at 2.8 will play this game ?
i failed to play bf3 bc2 the witcher lots of games now with quad as minimum dosnt play right with my dual ship even that my vga is higher than
recommended

600$ cpu 600$ gpu 70$ to buy the game to play the glorious max payne 3 , maybe its time to quit video gaming and watch tv or play cards .
this hobby is going directly into the rich mans world .
its a delicate art now . the painters the designers the players they think
they are van gogh and Einstein in one thing. every month all drivers must be changed . why?
every 4 weeks a new 600 $ hardware must be released why?

are we going to Nasa ? or war with mars ? well let me tell
you those guys have nothing better to do . aka enthusiasm

well enthusiasm costs its a bad thing actually in gaming just like football hooligans things . we can still play games made with a 10 yo hardware and enjoy the game and graphics .
people are suffering poverty/wars
games are just a safe way to pass life .for lots of us or for kids to have fun
when there is no world for them outside anymore .
but they turned gaming to one of those Hollywood freak show businesses for rich people to pore their piled gold. this past year games has being released like by dozens i dont
have time to even look at them i have been playing skyrim for 3 months
now each time i browse game spot i find tons of games its the first time
i loose track with new games .
they dont seem to have plans to make things easier in the future .
it requires a rich scientist now to play the games/hardware/drivers
to keep up with the mad race like most of other things in today world
just another mad race . soon you and i must die .
and gaming will soon be between the new generation more intelligent rich youth and the gaming enthusiastic artist/companies . its not like the old days .

ABBA - Money Money Money (Abba-dabba-doo) - YouTube

Why a high end video card!

games are making people crazy ?

new series every year ??!!

the end of main stream cards

just looked up game spot back at new year time when skyrim was released
i bookmarked the games i wanted to play and i got a record





maybe i need a year to play them am not so worried about buying a new pc

i know most of this is off-topic but its for those who like to read .

[David M]

There are two hardware requirements for games. The Minimum and Recommended.

The Minimum is ridiculously low, unless you are fine with your game looking like Donkey Kong on a Nintendo. The Recommended is low but still playable. The Recommended is NOT a setting where you can turn all of the game settings all of the way up and get 60 FPS on a 1920 x 1080 monitor. It's not even close to that.

Game manufacturers are not going to list high hardware standards for their games for fear of people not buying their games because their computers do not meet the minimum or recommended hardware standards.

[birddog_61]

Originally Posted by id10x since games moved to quads they left the dual cores behind no matter haw powerful they are . minimum requirements are useless , they are just there to run the game not to play it . when they ask for a quad core as minimum they dont mean core2 , by experience the buyer should get an i7 for a gaming rig . i7 is soon to be old generation now , i5 are useless for the future you want to see where this madness is going ? Max Payne 3 system requirements - System Requirements they want 6 cores not 4 Newegg.com - Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E 3.2GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 2011 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73930K do you really think the minimum required dual cpu at 2.8 will play this game ? i failed to play bf3 bc2 the witcher lots of games now with quad as minimum dosnt play right with my dual ship even that my vga is higher than recommended 600$ cpu 600$ gpu 70$ to buy the game to play the glorious max payne 3 , maybe its time to quit video gaming and watch tv or play cards . this hobby is going directly into the rich mans world . its a delicate art now . the painters the designers the players they think they are van gogh and Einstein in one thing. every month all drivers must be changed . why? every 4 weeks a new 600 $ hardware must be released why? are we going to Nasa ? or war with mars ? well let me tell you those guys have nothing better to do . aka enthusiasm well enthusiasm costs its a bad thing actually in gaming just like football hooligans things . we can still play games made with a 10 yo hardware and enjoy the game and graphics . people are suffering poverty/wars games are just a safe way to pass life .for lots of us or for kids to have fun when there is no world for them outside anymore . but they turned gaming to one of those Hollywood freak show businesses for rich people to pore their piled gold. this past year games has being released like by dozens i dont have time to even look at them i have been playing skyrim for 3 months now each time i browse game spot i find tons of games its the first time i loose track with new games . they dont seem to have plans to make things easier in the future . it requires a rich scientist now to play the games/hardware/drivers to keep up with the mad race like most of other things in today world just another mad race . soon you and i must die . and gaming will soon be between the new generation more intelligent rich youth and the gaming enthusiastic artist/companies . its not like the old days . ABBA - Money Money Money (Abba-dabba-doo) - YouTube Why a high end video card! games are making people crazy ? new series every year ??!! the end of main stream cards just looked up game spot back at new year time when skyrim was released i bookmarked the games i wanted to play and i got a record maybe i need a year to play them am not so worried about buying a new pc i know most of this is off-topic but its for those who like to read .

Benchmark Results: CPU Scaling : Battlefield 3 Performance: 30+ Graphics Cards, Benchmarked

Also you have still failed to show me a single game that has an I7 listed in the minimum system requirements.

[id10x]

Originally Posted by David M There are two hardware.....

yes mister optimal

Originally Posted by birddog_61 Also you have still failed to show me a single game that has an I7 listed in the minimum system requirements.

i have not failed where i have not challenged . i said quads are minimum now
ok now the i7 are soon to be replaced they are 2 years old now .
the best choice is to get a good i7 and watch the i5s as they die solely
my pc is up for 5 years now because i got a good cpu

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/intel_e8500/

quote : Conclusion:

Where can I begin about the Intel Core 2 Duo E8500? This processor is absolutely amazing. At stock speeds it blasts on the other Dual Core chips and puts up a noble fight with the Quad Core Q6600. Overclocked, this thing is a beast. I mean just look at the scores, it smokes the competition without even acknowledging that they were there.

that is a story of success my cpu still own older quad cores when the game
is not optimized to quads and can still do well with average quad cores demanding games but as you saw in max Payne a 6 core optimized game will be an overkill for the dual cores , ill try it but i didnt care for bfbc2 or bf3
there is plenty of games that are gpu based like batman arkam city .
its not about time i have been playing skyrim for 4 month's now
my clan played emperor battle of dune for 4 years also bf2 i did more than
1800 hours . but i like new titles you know ? i like that game spot screen
when it opens with lights and flashes declaring a new stalker game or bio-shock 3 fallout is coming near now and i still didnt play assassin creed 3
and Mass Effect 3 elder scroll going online , just look at game spot man
its going nuts i remember 2 years ago i had to wait for few weeks for a new
game to be released

now why you want an i5 cpu ? ok the op have a good cpu and bought a great gpu so we got nothing to lose . glc said lets try to replace the gpu and see haw it gose . he didnt say it will work
you gonna have the guy formatting and closing tasks and replacing drivers ?
its a straight forward cpu bottleneck . the 7850 us way to advanced 6
years difference . the op said he got money so why not buy an i7?
what is the best buy quad now for a gaming rig ? must be an i7 here .
if he did that its silly not to get a better mb and dd3 ram

[David M]

Clock speed has become an almost irrelevant measure of a processors ability to process data. There are a number of other factors that are relevant.

I got a i-7 2600 up to 5GHz...just as a challenge. Not that it matters much as far as making it a faster processor.