Custom Console PC

[red_book]

I saw this post (Project MAME and WeeCade - Build your own MAME cabinet - econ step 1/3)
when I was looking at cabinet designs' because I was really interested in having some sort of arcade/system emulator set-up to quench my nostalgic needs.

The article really got me into wanting to design one of these console systems and to scratch my cabinet idea as this does much of the same and takes up much less space but is a little more complicated to set up correctly. I have also found a local laser cutter in toronto that charges next to nothing to have you're own design cut out for you.

I have run into a list of questions that I am hoping one of the bright people here might know an answer to because this is becoming much more complicated then the PC G5 Tower I'm setting up right now.

Features of the system;
1) Boots into Hyperspin, no windows, no fuss.
2) Small enough system to fit inside a box enclosure roughly 8.5 by 11 inches (roughly the width and length of a sheet of paper, height to be decided)
3) Power supply issue. I saw that the guy who made this system used a small 80w PSU but I don't think that would be enough for what I am trying to do here. It would have to be small and quiet.

Firstly, I need to use a minitx board to make this work. I really like and trust biostar and they have a great board that's cheap.

(Buy the Biostar TH61 ITX Intel 6 Series mini-ITX Board at TigerDirect.ca)

For the CPU I am having a hard time deciding. I want to get something that's fast and good enough for emulating Nintendo 64, Playstation 1, some MAME arcade games that have a hard time on slower systems, such as Killer Instinct Arcade.

I was first looking at the intel 2500k for this and thinking about over clocking it but that would make this system a power hungry beast wouldn't it? The price isn't so much the issue as is the wattage and speed of the unit.

Now also it seems that the HD Intel graphics integrated on the newer intels' is more then good enough to emulate these games no problem which helps me by-pass getting a GPU for this unit that uses a lot of power and causes a lot of heat.

Example of MAME game that usually taxes computers, run's fine of intels' integrated graphics chip.

(Mace: The Dark Age Arcade - Executioner Playthrough - YouTube)

For ram, I'm going to go with 8GB 1600MHz

And a 120GB solid state hard drive that will hold all the roms and software.

My idea differs a little from the project that inspired this as I want to make more so of a console, then something with joysticks in it. I would rather design wireless joysticks that work with it or plug in, then to have this whole CPU unit sit on the floor with you or your lap. But I want to put this all in a custom acrylic 9 by 11 inch enclosure.

Any suggestions ?

[red_book]

I did some reading and this 200 watt power supply seems like it will work. With no gpu, I think I can get this motherboard, cpu, 2 fans, 2 active usb's (wireless gamepads) with a ssd running around 110 watts' peak right now.

200 Watt DC-DC ATX

[jdeb]

That is a cool console. I would go with the best integrated IGP you can get which is the HD4000 found on the i5-3570K.

Here is a nice board for that
Newegg.com - ASUS P8H77-I LGA 1155 Intel H77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard

As far as that power supply, I do not see that working.

Will this fit?

Newegg.com - FSP Group FSP300-60LG 300W Mini ITX / Flex ATX 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply

[red_book]

Thanks for the info man, you're the best. That motherboard looks good. What are one of the main differences you noticed with that board that made you suggest it? Does the GPU boost it does help me?

I just got back home after testing out the test software rig on my friend's pc. I could not believe when I saw resident evil (gamecube remake) running just how I remember it when I was younger and it's still a beautiful game, really beautiful. Not the psx original but the gamecube remake. It made me really excited for when this project is done. I'm still figuring out some dimension, heat and power issues.

I always run stuff through my dad (he's an engineer genius and I'm just a music guy lol). He mentioned that the power supply I was looking at would work because the CPU uses the most power at only 77 watts, add a bit of extra wattage for over clocking and such and your still well under 110 watts. The fans, and SSDs use 2 watts max, if even that.

The power supply you suggested looks perfect and its not that big at all at roughly 3.2 inches wide, 1.6 inches tall and 6 inches long but it may be too big for the 10 by 7.5 inch case I'm designing. Also do you know if this unit is loud or runs hot? I couldn't really tell from reading the info on it but it is very small and could very well work if I modify the case being designed slightly by an inch or two.

Motherboard is 6.7 by 6.7 inches
SSD is roughly 3 by 4 inches

So I know I can squeeze this into a nice special acrylic case with vent holes and the rest.

This power supply from this company has no fan on it, it's a simple chip that plugs right into the motherboard.

(200 Watt DC-DC ATX)

and if you buy this an external power supply with it (like a real game console), and you're good to go.

(19v/8.4A 160 Watt AC-DC Power Adapter)

I know 200 watts is nothing but I've been testing it out and I don't seem to be going much more then 100, even if that with this system I'm testing out right now.

Also I saw this great website that sells USB adapters for old controllers. So if this unit has 2 front usb's built into the design, that musician of mine who wants to play zelda, can play it with the actual controller. Awesome~!

My only issue is memory. Are pc's different at using it then mac's? Because always in my studio we max out memory on our systems. It deals with latency issues I have when playing piano or recording a vocalist. So I just assumed that putting at least 8GB of fast memory was a must here. But I am really tempted to pick up 16GB on sale. Any thoughts on this?

[red_book]

I can't wait to start posting the 3D mockups of this case my friend is designing for me! stay tuned (: I'm hoping to get this console done in 2 months or less.

[jdeb]

What are one of the main differences you noticed with that board that made you suggest it? Does the GPU boost it does help me?

Yes. It is the best integrated, tight space solution you can get at this time. I selected the board mainly due to the HD4000 IGP graphics. It is currently the best available on the Intel side of integrated graphics. It is pretty impressive considering the last generation Sandy Bridge, it is truly a noticeable improvement. The board is not made for enthusiast type usage. It is perfectly stable at stock speeds. People get into trouble when they fiddle with the BIOS on these boards. They are not an enthusiast board.

My only issue is memory. Are pc's different at using it then mac's? Because always in my studio we max out memory on our systems. It deals with latency issues I have when playing piano or recording a vocalist. So I just assumed that putting at least 8GB of fast memory was a must here. But I am really tempted to pick up 16GB on sale. Any thoughts on this?

That is a different issue or at least as it relates to this thread, you will want to post that in the MAC forum. For your described use for the console, 8 GB is way overkill.

[red_book]

That's good to know, save some money on the ram. If I ever really need to upgrade it, it's simple to do so in the future.

Would you suggest not overclocking this processor to 4GHz?

How does this turbo boost feature work? Is it sort of like a gimmick, or do these CPUs jump up by a certain number when needed?

[red_book]

You're love for asus boards has robbed off on me lol I saw this board after the one you suggested and saw the video of the great software asus gives for this board when it comes to over clocking the cpu and a great program to make sure I can stay well under 200 watts! The dual intelligent processors 2 with DIGI+ VRM looks useful too.

Newegg.ca - ASUS P8Z77-M PRO LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

this video showed me the cool software asus has for this board

Newegg TV: Ivy Bridge Overclocking Guide with ASUS for Intel 3rd Generation Core CPUs 3770K Z77 1155 - YouTube

I think the systems specs are pretty much complete on this one. And it's looking like it's gonna be 10 by 7.5 inches and about 3 inches tall. I should have some 3D mock ups up by next week

[red_book]

I would like to get the dimensions down to 2 inches tall but I don't know what fans would be small enough, unless I made them point up? I really don't know yet, cause 3 inches is thicker then a playstation and I don't think it would look that good

EDIT: I'm such an idiot lol I didn't realize that the pro board is 9.6 inches vs the 6.7 board you showed me. Hmm I wonder if that could work, the smaller board seems like a better idea. I need to keep this thing thin

[red_book]

this one looks good, what do you think? i like that this board supports dts because i work with that standard a lot so it would be cool if I could play things properly on it via usb stick on my tv system when needed to hear what it sounds like

Newegg.ca - ASUS P8Z77-I Deluxe LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard with USB BIOS

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by red_book this one looks good, what do you think? i like that this board supports dts because i work with that standard a lot so it would be cool if I could play things properly on it via usb stick on my tv system when needed to hear what it sounds like Newegg.ca - ASUS P8Z77-I Deluxe LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard with USB BIOS

Excellent board, enthusiast board in a small form factor, loaded with features. I was a little worried about the height so I did not suggest it.

[glc]

That mini-ITX board is what Pat used to build a computer inside an old Xbox case, perhaps you could send him a PM and ask him to measure the height. Check out his thread. That Digi+VRM module is going to dictate the height of the case. It looks like the micro-ATX board is not quite as tall.

[red_book]

Awesome, thanks! I'll check it out. I see what you mean, the board doesn't look like it's much higher then the back panel part of the unit. But the feature the board has of matching the wattage might really be key for me. It's that back panel that dictates the size a little. I'm trying to find creative ways of cooling it but it's a bit harder to figure that out as of yet. I'll send him a PM.

But I think after looking at it again, 3 inches tall isn't that bad if you don't have it too wide. 6.7 inches wide on the mother board gives you a lot of room, I'm not sure I could use the 9.6 unless I used some sort of creative level system. Where the SSD sat in a special bay under the whole motherboard, and things where sort of stacked creatively.

Do you think this would be overkill?
(Buy the Sony Optiarc 6X Blu-ray/DVR-RW Combo Drive at TigerDirect.ca)

It's just after seeing the great technology on this board I realized that with it being a console, that it has the tech to be a good htpc also on the side with it's DTS features and such. So I was tempted to put this slim into the cause because it's easy to hide with a bezel so that you can either shove in a pc game or movie. And I have no drive for it as of yet, realizing my mac mini's server's superdrive won't work on a PC

I never knew XMBC was being used for htpc os's. I used to mod this thing back in my days with the xbox. It's awesome this has been going on. It seems like a great overlay for the console to boot into and then you can click on Hyperspin to access all the games. I had no idea that the dolphin emulator plays new wii games so well. I haven't had a metroid fix in a quite a while (:

(Aeon | XBMC)

[red_book]

p.s - this power simulator has helped give me an idea of how much wattage all these things will take. the fastest cpu you can pick is the p4 3ghz but if you add 42 watts to the final calculation to accommodate for a 77 watt CPU it gives you a rough idea of what to expect.

Mini-Box.Com Power Calculator

[red_book]

I think the NES console just inspired my cooling set up for this.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...onsole-Set.jpg)

I saw from the xbox post you suggested of what his fan looked like over the cpu. With a rough 4 inch span. If you expand the NES type air grill to 4 inches, right above that fan, have holes cut on either side of the case that should be able to push the air up through the grill adequately and help me bypass those 3 inch tall fans, also keeping this unit quieter.

The holes on the side would be close to the design here. I'm borrowing from a lot of ideas because I'm excited to make something really custom here

http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/image...6024224535.jpg

p.s - the nintendo beem doesn't really exist, it's just a concept design (:

[red_book]

I feel like I'm thinking out loud but does anyone know how many DTS or DolbyDigital formats this board supports? I see an optical out but I know you can't transfer DTS HD over a compressed line. I don't think so anyway. My experience is that it always transfers over the hdmi to the receiver and it either decodes it or just plays it depending on what your playing it from.

Does this board transfer this audio over optical or can I do it over HDMI? I saw it has some sort of DTS support but I didn't really get a grasp of what DTS PC is

[jdeb]

S/PDIF or HDMI

All of that is defined in the manual. Download and review page 1-8.

ASUS - Motherboards- ASUS P8Z77-I DELUXE

[red_book]

Awesome, thank you. I'm glad DTS HD will work on it. I think I just saw on xmbc's website that they fully support it now too. I downloaded a copy on my mini with the aeon skin to test it out. It's really cool software, it's come a long way from when I was younger

[red_book]

The unit with that card looks to be about 2.5 inches tall, the back plate is 2 inches high. I have been working out the dimensions and I think I can have just one fan over the cpu, venting it up through the grill, with holes on either side of the unit. With only the cpu causing heat really, any thoughts on this? The unit won't be running very hot with what I have right now and that means I can have this thing really whisper quiet hopefully.

I'm hoping to squeeze it down under 3 inches as much as I can. My dad said I practically can only get it down to 2.8 inches with the way the system is set up. But that is a good height

So right now it's looking like 10 inches (W) 8.5 inches (L) and 2.8 inches tall.

Does this configuration sounds alright? I would like to send it off to my 3D animator friend so he can start building it so we can get it printed (:

I just got back from work and I'm looking at different plastics and metals this company provides to cut. I didn't realize there were so many different types of plastic +_+ lol

[red_book]

Should I go with an AMD or Intel for this one if I'm concerned with onboard GPU? I read this article and it showed a considerable graphics improvement over the intel in most tests. Considering I'm not going to have a GPU in this unit, would AMD Trinity be the better route?

(AnandTech - The AMD Trinity Review (A10-4600M): A New Hope)

I know the intel i5 3570k runs at 77 watts which is a good plus but the graphics boost of the amd might be needed for a system like this. Any thoughts?

[red_book]

I'm trying to keep this cost of the whole system down but with the intel processor and mother board the set up so far its close to $900. Thats around the price on a mac mini that I can just put windows onto.

1) I want it to be capable of game emulation (gamecube, mame, wii, n64) and xbmc for the films and music interface.

2) Xbmc to play blurays' and dvd's so I want to pick up a slot loading dvd drive for the unit. I heard any dvd drive over 2x is a 3D player which is good so I can use that on my LG tv.

3) Have proper DTS HD sound coming out through the HDMI to my receiver when a bluray has it.

4) Low wattage, lets me use a tiny PSU unit

5) Low heat, so it can fit inside a small enclosure

6) Good CPU fan, something quiet that can keep it very cool

I was set on the 3570k chip mentioned here but I wonder if the 2500k does much in terms of emulation? and it seems HD3000 is good enough for xbmc. Just in terms of keeping the cost of the unit down. Building a more expensive machine then a mac mini that is larger doesn't impress me much

[MaxRat]

The AMD counterpart runs quite a bit cooler in some cases and yes the APU graphics are better..

Ivybridge runs way hotter than SandyBridge... sandybridge was comparable to AMD heat wise but no where near AMD graphics wise.

The AMD APU is very strong I have several of the current generation A6 and A8 and I can tell you that they are very nice.... and cheap

[red_book]

I posted a topic here a couple weeks looking to build the smallest form factor and lowest wattage I could could up with to make this a quiet, low powered system.

I got some great help here that turned me onto integrated GPUs and Asus motherboards because the of the great UEFI BIOS feature they have that makes it easier for a mac guy like me to over clock. One of the things I realized was that the cost of my initial system was getting much too high, not where I couldn't afford it. It just felt stupid to me and impractical for it to be on par price wise with a mac mini which is already small and fast.

SO I started looking at all the micro iTX boards, I was mostly looking for;
1) Size
2) HDMI
3) USB 3
4) Graphics acceleration

After long strenuous reading on how the AMD A8 specifically handles MAME arcade and even PC games, it seems to be more then I need for an console that plays all the old games and a couple of newish ones like Fallout 3. Anything over 40 FPS makes it like a console would and sitting far away with it hooked up to the HDTV would probably look great.

So it's the AMD A8 I'm looking at. Is it better I get the unlockable one to over clock it just a bit to maybe 4GHz? Cause you have your choice between the 2.9 or the unlocked 3.

Now finding the motherboard has been a bit deceptive because new egg won't list products that are out of stock. But I found this great motherboard asus makes, thats a micro itx.

(ASUS - Motherboards- ASUS F1A75-I DELUXE)

It's a little expensive compared to the other ones, but all in all with board, memory, and cpu it gets to around a nice 360$ which is a number I'm really happy with vs the 500$+ models I was looking at before. You get a remote with it, which isn't a big deal because if you wanted you could have either your ps3 remote or something else controlling the unit. But the UEFI BIOS with all the energy features make this board look great.

OR

(Newegg.ca - ZOTAC IONITX-T-U Intel Atom D525 (1.8GHz, Dual-Core) Intel NM10 Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo)

I know this is probably way underpowered to what I just showed BUT it does come with a great power supply unit already, has an integrated CPU/GPU that is whisper quiet or even fanless if you want it to be. Comes with HDMI, usb3 and other features that make it good for HDTV use AND it keeps the cost down even lower.

This was a video that turned me onto the power of the integrated CPU/GPU being used here because this is almost the exact application I am using it for.

(DoDon Arcade Bartop WIP - YouTube)

Thanks for the help!

EDIT: Forget to state how cheap the integrated system is. I don't know how to share new egg lists here but the Zotac board (comes with power supply), with 2x Kingston 2GB DDR3 800 and a small 30GB SSD (to keep the OS and such on as I'm going to use the usb 3 to hook up to a big 1TB portable drive that can fit media and games) works out to $290.96

[jdeb]

I'm lost. It seems as if you figured it out already. I am not well versed in Zotac boards but their speciality is the mini itx platform but I have never used them exclusive. I don't see them here in Michigan.

[glc]

Threads merged, only one thread per build, please.

[red_book]

Sorry about that heh. Yeah I thought I had this all planned out too but I ordered a raspberry recently for fun that I'm putting xbmc on as a portable htpc and music player when I realized how much it could handle being such a cheap little thing.

So I started thinking that the set-up I originally had was a bit over kill and I did a lot of reading after on some forum websites that post mame benchmarks and such and the amd a8 seemed to do amazingly well, and the thing is only around 100 bucks. And the integrated graphics on it seem to run games at 1080p at acceptable console frame rates.

(A8 3870K Dead Island Full HD 6550d - YouTube)

So it got me excited about making an AMD system that can handle some of these PC games but is mostly for emulation of mame, snes, etc, through hyperspin.

I guess my question is. Should I first buy this zotac board or try to build an itx a8 system thats close to the price range of the zotac because it would be that much faster?

I'm leaning slightly towards the amd system because it has directs 11 support which mame does use and makes it a little more future proof + it being able to handle pc games like that was unexpected for me. But I know amds' run around 100w so I am hoping I can keep this under 200 watts for the pico-psu.

But why can't I buy this board anywhere other then ebay? it seems to be out of stock everywhere

[red_book]

After some more reading I found this board. I have no idea why this is cheaper then the other one I was looking at.

D2700ITXS-A-E | | D2700-ITX WiFi Supreme | Zotac D2700-ITX WiFi Supreme Desktop Motherboard - Intel NM10 Express Chipset - Mini ITX - 4 GB DDR3 SDRAM Maximum RAM - Serial ATA/300, mSATA - Onboard Video - 1 x PCIe x16 Slot - 2 x USB 3.0 Port - Bluetoo

It supports directx 11 + everything else you could need for an htpc/console hardware set up.

What do you think?