$900 Gaming Build- Please Help, again...

[Amirsan]

Also, if AMD, which is better for me right now, XP or 64bit?

[timbit]

ok... edit above build after a little work to make it even better performance.

cpu: AMD Athlon 64 2800+ Sckt 754 Retail $145
mobo: Chaintech VNF3-250 $75
vid card: eVGA NVidia GeForce 6800 $278 (comes with free Far Cry... )
hdd: 80 G WD Caviar SATA 8MB buffer $69
ram: 512 mb Corsair Value Select PC3200 CAS 2.5 $77
optical: Rosewill CD-RW / DVD Rom $38
case: Antec mid tower with 350W PSU $62
keyboard, mouse: $11
speakers: Logitech Z-640 $43
TOTAL: $798 w/ no moniter... this is a great system. awesome performance. managed to get the GeForce 6800 in there, which is far more powerful then the radeon 9800 pro i had listed before.

EDIT: to answer a couple of your questions:
some stuff will transfer, some won't, but it won't be becuase it is an amd build. the vid card may not transfer, because agp may be obselete by then. same with ram, everything might be ddr2 by then. hdd and optical should transfer over, but you never know. but the same would be true with an intel build.
a64 or xp? a64 vastly outperforms xp due to some architectural changes (esp onboard mem controller.) so i would say a64. xp is much cheaper, however. i'd go with a64 (obviously, both of these builds are a64 based lol).

[Amirsan]

so shall I go with jon's or timbit's AMD build? Anyone have any comments suggestions or sets of thier own?

[Amirsan]

Originally Posted by timbit ok... edit above build after a little work to make it even better performance. cpu: AMD Athlon 64 2800+ Sckt 754 Retail $145 mobo: Chaintech VNF3-250 $75 vid card: eVGA NVidia GeForce 6800 $278 (comes with free Far Cry... ) hdd: 80 G WD Caviar SATA 8MB buffer $69 ram: 512 mb Corsair Value Select PC3200 CAS 2.5 $77 optical: Rosewill CD-RW / DVD Rom $38 case: Antec mid tower with 350W PSU $62 keyboard, mouse: $11 speakers: Logitech Z-640 $43 TOTAL: $798 w/ no moniter... this is a great system. awesome performance. managed to get the GeForce 6800 in there, which is far more powerful then the radeon 9800 pro i had listed before.

omfg, 6800!?!?!? Do you think 512 memory an control that? Also, I like the speakers from speeddude's build I quoted.

Maybe instead of the latest video card, sinse its realy expensive now I can get a radeon 9800 pro card from sapphire and use the extra money for more ram and a better Monitor?

[timbit]

well, i think you'll see the biggest performance boost by going to a 6800 than anything else (which is why i suggested it.) if someone points out that i am horribly wrong though, you save a hundred bucks by going back to the 9800 pro, which is enough to grab another 512 of ram. btw, 512 of ram isn't going to hold back the vid card at all.

edit: oh yes, and the speakers in my build are the same as the ones in speeddude's build. price has just come down i guess... but they are the same... logitech z-640 5.1

[Amirsan]

Well I am sure in probably 6 more months the 6800 will definetly drop down to around 180, even less! I remember a couple months back when Radeon 9800 Pro was $400 bucks!

I think I can survive well with 9800pro for now, and then go with 1 gig of ram.

Also, is the pc gopod for overclocking?

[Amirsan]

I will probably go with your monitor aswell, http://www.techonweb.com/shop/produc...=476534&src=PG

Also, is 350 Watts ok? Your first case had 420...

[timbit]

good for overclocking too now ?!? lol, no, it's not an overclocking beast. the ram isn't great overclocking ram, the mobo isn't great for it either, and it has a SATA drive -- also not great for overclocking. the psu is good quality, and 350 watts is good enough for this rig, but it isn't really high powered enough to OC, and all of the cooling is stock... i'm sorry, but this is not an overclocking rig. furthermore, i have no idea if it is possible to make a rig this powerful and a really good overclocker for under $900 with a moniter... i sure can't. maybe someone else can.

[Amirsan]

Hey well if its powerful, then I see no need to overclock, right?

So what is your say on the switch... 6800 GFX or 9800Pro+ 1gig Memory (or another upgrade)

My reasoning is that the 6800 GFX is at its high price and I am sure it will drop even $100 in a couple months, then is when I will upgrade. It is always said, never buy hardware until its atleast 6 months old, unless your rich or have a high budget.

I am sure 9800Pro will suit me well, especially with 1 gig...

also, in your latest build I noticed you did not include the OS... I think I need that...

So we will probably definetly have to trim down that card to either 9800Pro or 9600XT and then add the OS, and see what we have left for a monitor and hopefully (HOPEFULLY) a RAM upgrade to 1 gig.

[Amirsan]

found two os' for windows

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_a...yword=&sortby=

Look at only the top two, Windows Pro and Home.

[Amirsan]

bump??

...............................

[Amirsan]

Cheaper Vid Card: http://www.allstarshop.com/shop/simp...ad=bz&pid=9161

Switching to the above video card will give me $226 to spend, not including the shipping for the above vid card.

Now I need an OS, which will be around $80, leaving around $160 to spend. Then 105.37 for this monitor:
http://www.techonweb.com/shop/produc...=476534&src=PG

Leaving $55... if I can get a cheaper os, we can upgrade the ram. Right?

[KoMoDo]

that card u linked to is HORRIBLE! first off, never heard of that shop, i say stick with newegg. 2nd off, heres what i got for u:
OS
CPU
Mobo
Memory
OR
Another memory option
DVD/CD-RW combo
Hard Drive
Keyboard and mouse
Speakers
Case
GFX Card
Monitor

can u guys see any difference between the 2 different RAMS ?
without the monitor, it ends up being $891.00. dont get the cheapest win xp from the link u gave us, they're for Dells and are ONLY for dells.
i say you can stretch it out abit and get your dad to pay an extra 50$, so forget about the monitor from getting it off the web, and u can get something real cheap from best buy/circuit city once ure back in the US, u can get it for like 50$, prolly with rebates though, but u should still get that. also, the HD i gave u, 63$ or somethin, i got a 160GB HD for 60$, cheaper than yours, from best buy.. with 100$ rebates, got em already and they're in my dads bank account :-P so retail stores can be much much cheaper than online stores sometimes, but its kinda rare, just look at the papers every sunday (or saturday or whatever :-P) and see if u see any deals, they usually put them there for everything, including a monitor.

good luck bro, that build is real awesome its a serious gaming comp what ure gonna have! just need a monitor and ure set now! hope i helped, keep asking me and all that if u need any more help :-P

KoMoDo

[piasabird]

I dont think it is feasable to purchase a $900.00 Intel based system from scratch with all new parts. You have to have and OS and that is at least $89.00 maybe a little less on sale for MS WinXP Home Edition. That only leaves about $810.00.

Intel processor is probably around $170.00 - $200.00 for a basic processor.

That leaves around 610.00

Then comes the hard part. What motherboard? The problem is what do you consider upgradeable? A Socket 915 series motherboard with PCI-Express and DDR2 is what I would consider upgrade potential. That will set you back about $200.00.

That leaves about $410.00

To get DDR2 RAM that will cost $200.00 for 512Megs of RAM (2 x 256).

That leaves $200 for a case, cdrw/dvd drive, hard drive, Floppy?

Then you would need a Video card which you will not be able to afford.

You cant really afford the upgradeability of Intel. You would have to consider some options which you would have to settle for which would compromise your future Upgrade choices.

To get within your range you would have to purchase something like a I865 chipset with a P4C 800Mhz processor for a 478 pin socket motherboard with DDR RAM. This is a valid option, but it is not quite as upgradeable as you want. However, it has potential to be a good gaming Rig. For gaming the most important issue is the video card, and I would not accept less than a ATI 9800 Pro which runs about $200.00 if you expect to really enjoy your games.

An alternative would be a AMD Athlon 64 which is a great option. You can probably get a motherboard for around $100.00, Use DDR, and get a Processor for around $150 for Athlon 64 2800. It will cost about what a Intel 800Mhz rig does but be more upgradable.

I still think the $900 price is pushing it quite a bit. You would be better off with a realistic price of around $1200 - $1600. Maybe you should just get a part time job to make up the difference, or ask realatives for some birthday money or something.

I think around Christmas time the prices will fall quite a bit.

[Alfie]

If I were building a gaming computer,this would be my choice for basic configuration.
As far as cdrws,etc.I'd check surplus.
The advantages here is faster speed,sata raid and a good future built in.
The arguement of 754 is being replaced is moot,as all systems listed are being replaced!
With future 64 bit support,games that will be released in 64 bit will be supported.
Soltek boards are good ,there are those that believe they are made by ECS,without realizing Abit,Soltek,ECS are from the same family of motherboards and both Abit and Soltek are using the larger ECS factory to produce their motherboards to meet demand,BUT under Abit's and Soltek's control.

SOLTEK "SL-K8AN2E-GR" NVIDIA nForce3 250Gb Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 754 CPU -RETAIL
Specifications:
Supported CPU: AMD Athlon 64 Processor
Chipset: NVIDIA nForce3 250Gb
FSB: 800MHz Hyper Transport
RAM: 2x DIMM Supports DDR266/333/400 Max 2GB
Slots: 1x AGP 8X/4X, 5x PCI
Ports: 2x PS/2, 2x COM, 1x LPT, 8x USB2.0(Rear 4), 1xRJ45, Audio Ports
IDE: 2x ATA 133 up to 4 Devices, 1x ATA 133 up to 2 Devices by Promise PDC20579
SATA/RAID: 2x SATA RAID with 0,1,0+1 by nFORCE 3 250Gb, 2x SATA RAID with 0,1,1+0 by by Promise PDC20579
Onboard Audio: 6-Channel AC'97 Audio
Onboard LAN: 1000 BASE-T Ethernet
Form Factor: ATX more info-> N82E16813180061 $99.00 $99.00


POWERCOLOR ATI RADEON 9600PRO Video Card, 256MB DDR, 128-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, Model "R96-D3G" -RETAIL
Specifications:
Chipset/Core Speed: ATI RADEON 9600PRO/400MHz
Memory/Effective Speed: 256MB DDR/400MHz
BUS: AGP 2X/4X/8X
Ports: VGA Out(15 Pin D-Sub)+TV-Out(S-Video)+DVI connector
Support 3D API: DirectX®9, OpenGL®2.0
Cable/Accessories: VGA via DVI Adapter, 3 Cables, 2 CD, Manual
Max Resolution@32bit Color: 2048X1536@85Hz
Retail Box (See pics for details) more info-> N82E16814131227 $131.00 $131.00


AMD Athlon 64 2800+, 512KB L2 Cache, 64-bit Processor - OEM
Specifications:
Model: AMD Athlon 64 2800+
Core: Newcastle
Operating Frequency: 1.8GHz
FSB: Integrated into Chip
Cache: L1/64K+64K; L2/ 512KB
Voltage: 1.5V
Process: 0.13Micron
Socket: Socket 754
Multimedia Instruction: MMX, SSE, SSE2, 3DNOW!, 3DNOW!+
Packaging: OEM(Processor Only) more info-> N82E16819103450 $139.00 $139.00


Geil Ultra Series Value Dual Channel 184 Pin 512MB(256MBx2) DDR PC-3200 w/ Blue Heatspreader - Retail
Specifications:
Manufacturer: Geil
Speed: DDR400(PC3200)
Type: 184 Pin DDR SDRAM
Error Checking: Non-ECC
Registered/Unbuffered: Unbuffered
Cas Latency: 2.5 7-4-4
Support Voltage: 2.55V-2.95V
Bandwidth: 3.2GB/s
Organization: two 32M x 64 -Bit
Special Features: Optimized SPD for Dual Channel DDR motherboards
Warranty: Lifetime more info-> N82E16820144309 $98.00 $98.00


Western Digital Raptor 36.7GB 10,000RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model WD360GD, OEM Drive Only
Specifications:
Capacity: 36.7GB
Average Seek Time: 5.2 ms
Buffer: 8MB
Rotational Speed: 10000 RPM
Interface: Serial ATA
Features: Not specified
Manufacturer Warranty: 5 years
Packaging: OEM Drive Only more info-> N82E16822144200 $112.50 $225.00




Subtotal » $692.00

[KoMoDo]

the above post is missing like 70% of the parts and look how much it costs, the SATA HD is extremely expensive, etc... check out my build Amir! :-P

KoMoDo

[Amirsan]

Guys, please read the whole thread before posting, please.

About the mobo, I was just reading Maximum PC August issue, they had a review on the " ASUS "A8V Deluxe" VIA K8T800 Pro Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 939 CPU". It rated it a 9 out of 10. "Its fast, and Socket 939 stabilizes upgrade options". And its also only 137.00 on NewEgg! I think its a must.

@Komodo... where is the power supply on your case?

Btw, newegg is very good, but I dont see that they will have the best prices and still good quality for ALL products, I am sure we can find good deals with other vendors. We shouldn't be closed minded when coming to budget building...

I will go AMD route then, though only with a socket 939 sinse I am not going to get stuck in 1 year or two needing a whole new build, there are no exceptions to that.

Now if I can last a couple years with the cpu, perferably till colledge then good. I will be upgrading the vid cards, ram and small things, though little by little and by no means I do not plan to "rebuild" anytime soon.

Btw, $900 is absolute maximum. If I had more moola, then why not more, but I dont... I hardly have $500 now, I still have to raise the rest...

[Amirsan]

ok, ignore the socket 939... cheap cpu's dont support it.

Also, komodo, why is your build better then Timbit's?

[piasabird]

You might be better off with Athlon XP if you cant make it on the price. I have a system built on an Athlon XP 2800 and it runs pretty smooth. I was playing Halo on it with an old Saphire Radeon 9000. It can run Halo smoothly at reduced settings. However, My son has an ATI Radeon 9800 AIW and it is pretty impressive with just an XP2400 CPU. You need at least a XP2800 processor. If you can afford an XP3000 or XP3200 with the 400 FSB that is what I would aim at. However, in the long run it still might be cheaper to just go to the Athlon 64 instead of buying a 400Mhz FSB Athlon XP. However you may be very happy with an Athlon XP 2800+ at a price of 121.00 for the retail processor. I use the retail version and found the cpu cooler to do just fine. It has been running for 6 months like that for me.

If your parents are willing to let you use 900.00 you might be able to cut some corners on the memory and use 2 X 256MB for 512MB of DDR400. 1 Gig of Ram would be Ideal, because I think that is the best price break of Doller per MB of RAM (2 x 512).

I use a standard Asus A7N8X Ultra 400 motherboard. This is not the deluxe model. I think it has been dropping in price to about $85.00. There is another model the A7N8X-X that does not have the Dual DDR capability that would bring the price down to about $65.00. I think the first option may be better though.

I like the Lite-on CDRW/DVD ROM drives at around $41.00 I have used a few brands but these seem to work well. Asus also makes very high quality drives. They sell them, but I dont really know where they are made and who makes the guts.

Look around for a sale on hard drives. Sometimes they go on sale in stores and on-line. Look for coupons at places like best buy and office max and any other local stores like Sams Club. You can pick up a 40 GB 7200rpm Maxtor Hard Drive with Fluid Bearings for $48.00. Typically a 80 Gig drive is anywhere from $55.00 - $65.00. A lot of people like the 8 Meg Cache models. If you dont download songs or fill the hard dirve with pictures a 40 Gig drive is probably just fine. You can probably put a lot of games on 40 gigs.

The difficult part is the video card. I have 2 suggestions:
Radeon 9600XT
Radeon 9800 Pro
I have been buying the Sapphire brand, but Powercolor is good also. Most brands are just fine However dont be afraid to ask about the brand you choose.

The Case is kind of a subjective purchase. I kind of like the Antec SLK3700BQE which is black and has a 120mm cooling fan and an Antec 350 Power supply. However, if you use a Radeon 9800 I suggest a 400w power supply and maybe a case with no power supply. If you order them separate you pay shipping twice. However, be careful to get a good power supply. Some people like the Chieftec Cases. They also come in Black with no window or probably white, purple, red, etc. A lot of people like these because they are roomy. You can order these with no power supply for $39.00 from www.tigerdirect.com and other places. Tiger Direct sells a lot of this type of case but on a lot of things their prices are a bit higher.

Chieftec:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...Tab=1&NoMapp=0

Some people like other designs like the flower design window. I am not too impressed with windows, but being able to see the processor and the fan may be nice. Some people like the LED fans and fancy lights some dont.

Shop around for the keyboard and mouse and you might find a nice price they are always going on sale and can be found everywhere from wal mart to best buy and online locations. Actually you can find them used probably really cheap. I prefer an Optical Mouse that you do not have to clean. I have had one for 2 years and it keeps working.

Speakers you can find anywhere. In various configurations from $5.00 to $300.00. I found a pair with the Microphone and headphone jacks on them that I like. Keeps you from wiring up the sound to the front of the case which can be complicated. I dont know why all motherboards cant agree on a plug design. USB is nice on the front of the case so look for a case with that.

[Amirsan]

cpu: AMD Athlon 64 2800+, 512KB L2 Cache, 64-bit Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...103-452&depa=0 --$146

mobo: CHAINTECH "VNF3-250" nForce3 250 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 754 CPU -RETAIL
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...152-043&depa=1 --$75

vid card: SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9800 PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -BULK -OEM
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...102-268&depa=1 -- $183

hdd: Western Digital Special Edition 80GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model WD800JB, OEM Drive Only
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...144-122&depa=0 --$63

ram: Corsair VS512MB400 512MB DDR400 PC3200 CAS2.5 Value Select Memory Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...ctCode=80098-6 --$79

optical: Rosewill 52x32x52x16 CD-RW & DVD Combo Drive, Model C523216, Retail
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...190-002&depa=1 --$38

case: PRO SOURCE Black IceBerg Mid-Tower Aluminum Case with Side Window, Model "8889-ABL" -RETAIL
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...132-007&depa=1 --$60.50

keyboard/mouse: KEYBOARD-2000 KB-558BB/P Keyboard and Optical Mouse Combo PS/2 104keys -RETAIL
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...157-010&depa=1 --$14.50

speakers: Logitech Z-640
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...121-104&DEPA=0 --$43

OS: Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition with Service Pack SP1a - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...102-141&DEPA=0 --$90

monitor:

$792 not including a monitor...

Its a mixture of Zimbit's and Komodo's last build.

I agree, I can wait for a 1gig system. I will raise the money opr ask for it in christmas. :P

Vid card is most important. I now have 108 to spend on a monitor. This is not final. Please give me comments and/or suggestions.

[timbit]

difference between komodo's build and mine:
his has no psu (incidentally, neither does your last one... gotta look into that.)
he has a gig of the same ram that i listed (second option, not the first ram he has listed)
worse vid card on his.
nicer mobo on his
flashier case on his...
also $100 more than mine... although after winxp, it comes out about even.

[kram 2.0]

Building on current technology, seems like you're got yourself a fine lineup of parts . Besides the power supply, which I'm not sure about but would be highly suspicious, I'd say it's a good system. I'd suggest the Enlight 360 Watt PSU after you get the Case, in case the case should come with a bad generic one. Also, be sure to not exclude shipping costs - the speakers and stuff should add up to around 15 USD in shipping.

Hope that helps,
kram

[Amirsan]

kram, you got good suggestions, but please post links... please...

[KoMoDo]

ok,
heres an updated list, and ure rdy to get a monitor with this too :-P
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition with Service Pack SP1a - OEM 90$
AMD Athlon 64 2800+, 512KB L2 Cache, 64-bit Processor - Retail 146$
CHAINTECH "VNF3-250" nForce3 250 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 754 CPU -RETAIL 75$
Corsair Value Select (Dual Pack) 184 Pin 1G(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200 - OEM 154$
Rosewill 52x32x52x16 CD-RW & DVD Combo Drive, Model C523216, Retail 38$
Western Digital Special Edition 80GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model WD800JB, OEM Drive Only 63$
KEYBOARD-2000 KB-558BB/P Keyboard and Optical Mouse Combo PS/2 104keys -RETAIL 14.5$
Logitech Z640 5.1 Speakers -RETAIL 43$
Linkworld Black/Silver ATX Mid Tower Case, Model "3210-04-C2628" -RETAIL 25.5$
Rosewill ATI RADEON 9600XT Video Card, 128MB DDR, 128-Bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, Model "96XT-AD-128C" -RETAIL 132$
Enlight ATX 420W P4 Power Supply, Model "EN-8420934" -RETAIL 39.88$

thats 820.88$ total, and then add your monitor from a retail store, etc.

good luck man, tell me what u think, if u need anymore help just let me know!
hope that helps,

KoMoDo

[timbit]

komodo's last build looks pretty good except:

i would spend $3 more on the vid card and get the Sapphire Radeon 9600XT simply because Sapphire is a name that is actually known in the vid card industry, and it comes with its memory clocked a full 50mghz higher... offers a bit better performance.

also, i would go for just 512 of ram right now. that way you have a little extra money for shipping and your moniter. like you said, you can always pick up another 512 later, and sckt 754 doesn't use dual channel, so you wouldn't have to worry about a later stick working like that. just make sure it is the same kind to avoid any issues.

edit: if you have enough moolah, i would go with 512 ram and pick up the 9800 pro i recommended way back.... but you don't want to go over budget, and it might be a good idea to go with the 9600xt now, and pick up an x800 or a geforce 6800 down the road (christmas present maybe??? should have fallen in price by then... just make sure to tell whoever you need it to be an agp vid card.)

[kram 2.0]

Originally Posted by Amirsan kram, you got good suggestions, but please post links... please...

Yep - the Enlight 360W PSU is what I mentioned above.

kram

[zip86]

Aren't you getting a little tied up? It seems like you are trying to build a fast computer that can be upgraded and costs less than a grand. It's like trying to find the fountain of youth. I think you just need to compromise. You can't have the PCI-E, DDR2, and 939 64bit for less than 1G. Go with the current technology and forget about upgrading unless you are willing to wait till end of this year or start of next cause you can't afford them right now. Even without upgrading you pc, you'll do fine for at least 4yrs.

[Amirsan]

Ok, I like Komodo's build aswell. Though I will listen to Timbit's suggestions, $3 is worth the Sapphire, I have heard much good of this company.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...102-326&depa=1

Also, I dont think I can find a good monitor for $80... can someone tell me what exactly should I look in a monitor before I buy it? My personal preference is that its 17" or more. I hate small views. Other then that, what should I look for and on what ratings? I heard about Refresh Rating, but which rating should I look for? Anyways. I am considering the drop from 1 gig IF I dont find a good monitor.

If I dont find a good monitor for $80 I will drop 1 gig to just one 512 stick below:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...ctCode=80098-6

Then I will have $80 or so, $20-30 will go to a monitor and maybe a 256MB stick? Or a Radeon 9800...

which do you guys suggest.

[Amirsan]

I actually found a 9600XT 256MB for like 15 more. If it fits in the budget...
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...102-344&depa=1

[Amirsan]

Might I post again... the technoweb monitor which it seem,s everyone agrees on... I dont see any details on shipping... how much and how long will it take to ship?

If long and much, I might as well look around locally.

EDIT: Also, about the motherboard, is the sound chip good? Third, is there an ethernet connector or something to plug in my dsl connector to the pc?