Apple Computer Question

[IronMentality]

I originally wanted to purchase an Apple for my laptop I'll be using for school just because I've always liked the OS better and there really is less hassle with it. However, I noticed both the iBook and the PowerBook are still using the G4 Processor.

Now, the G4 Processor was fast verse like the Pentium III 1.5 ghz. When are the G5's going to roll out in the mobile units for Apple's? I am going with either a Dell or Hewlett Packard now (since they offer some nice Education discounts) especially Dell offers a great mail-in rebate for a full 4 year warranty with Accidental Damage Protection.

I've always like Apple's, but are the new Powerbooks or iBook's going to be rolling out anytime soon? I would get one, but a 14" iBook with a old G4 processor I'm not going to buy for $1600...

[kram 2.0]

Actually, the G4 processors for the mobile line, namely the lesser costing iBooks, are pretty new. I think the first iBook G4 was released sometimes at the beggining of this year. Consider this - the dual G5 processors for the desktop, acclaimed as one of the most powerful processing units available, was released not long ago. As far as I hear, although Apple has made attempts, they are not close on a G5 mobility unit yet...they're still workin on it.

But really - I'd say go G4 laptop. I just got one from Apple several days ago and works flawlessly...wish I had, little to be known that it was for my sister . G4 is very powerful IMO, even if it is 1Ghz clockspeed.


Hope that helps,
kram

[IronMentality]

A G4 is more than twice as slow as a Pentium M, and is definitely way slower than a Pentium 4 with HT 3.0 Ghz and up. I can get a Dell with a 15.4" Widescreen with a 1920x1200 resolution with a 4 year warranty as well as 4 year accidental damage coverage for $2100...

An a iBook G4 with 14" with a 1ghz chip is $1600, heh. That's why I was asking about the G5's.

[kram 2.0]

Originally Posted by IronMentality A G4 is more than twice as slow as a Pentium M, and is definitely way slower than a Pentium 4 with HT 3.0 Ghz and up. I can get a Dell with a 15.4" Widescreen with a 1920x1200 resolution with a 4 year warranty as well as 4 year accidental damage coverage for $2100... An a iBook G4 with 14" with a 1ghz chip is $1600, heh. That's why I was asking about the G5's.

Did you see this on a test or are you comparing them by their clockspeed? Let me bring up the AMD Intel analogy. Any given AMD Processor, like lets say the AMD Athlon XP 2600+ Barton, runs at a lower clockspeed than their Intel counterpart...like lets say the Intel P4 2.6B. The AMD processor, though it seems like it's running at about 2600 Mhz (2.6 Ghz), it really is clocked at around 1.9 Ghz, I think. Same can be suggest for Apple to Intel. Apple is pretty clean and efficient when it comes to processing cycles and so therefore perform pretty efficiently for their clockspeed. That in mind, I still picked the Apple iBook over the Dell Inspiron. Just my two cents here

kram

[IronMentality]

The G4 in tests was faster than the P3. Just like the AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.2 ghz was faster than the P3. The P4 2.8 ghz is as fast as a Pentium M 1.6 ghz. And the 2.8 Ghz P4 is a lot faster than a P3, therefore a lot faster than a G4.

[kram 2.0]

Originally Posted by IronMentality The G4 in tests was faster than the P3. Just like the AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.2 ghz was faster than the P3. The P4 2.8 ghz is as fast as a Pentium M 1.6 ghz. And the 2.8 Ghz P4 is a lot faster than a P3, therefore a lot faster than a G4.

To tell you the truth, I really never see the point to these tests, considering they use the Apple system that includes the 256 MB of DDR333 RAM. Simply put it this way - personally, I'm not hesitant to use Apple over Windows even with these tests in mind. Yes, faster maybe, but under what condition?

kram

[IronMentality]

Ok, again... the G4 chip at 1ghz in tests is just as fast as a Pentium 3 1.5 ghz. That's as fast as it goes. Plain and simple. Only a G5, can match the speeds of it's competitors chips -- the AMD and Intels.

So the G4's Apple offers in there Laptops are about as fast as a 1.5 ghz P3 chip. So anything offered from that speed and up is going to be faster than an Apple notebook.

So a Pentium M 1.6 being as fast as a P4 2.8 ghz, that means a P4 2.8 ghz is almost three times as fast as a 1 Ghz G4. However, G5's are different -- and that's why I asked about them being in Apple's mobile computers. But, it doesn't seem like that'll be happening for a while which is unforunate.

[zip86]

Kinda out of the topic but do you think having an apple laptop and a windows desktop is a bad idea? I prob get a cheap apple laptop to do wordproccessing and school work (since I like the apple OS for anything other than media and game) while doing all the other fun stuff (games, video edit, audio edit, etc) on the more powerful windows desktop. Since I might need to transfer files between the apple and the windows, would it be inefficient? Should I just get two of the same?

[kingoftowns]

but as kram said "in what condition" were they faster, the mac os has alot less clutter and crap in it than windows does, this goes the same for most programs and applications so even thought yes the clock is faster in the pc's the apple will perform better than a pc in most situations, were these "tests" you were looking at benchmarks, clockspeed tests, or what because i have a notebook with a centrino 1.6 chip in it and my friends g4 seems to run a little smoother most of the time. speed difference is not noticeable. so what kind of tests are looking at , there are tons of ways to benchmark a computer.

[kram 2.0]

Originally Posted by zip86 Kinda out of the topic but do you think having an apple laptop and a windows desktop is a bad idea? I prob get a cheap apple laptop to do wordproccessing and school work (since I like the apple OS for anything other than media and game) while doing all the other fun stuff (games, video edit, audio edit, etc) on the more powerful windows desktop. Since I might need to transfer files between the apple and the windows, would it be inefficient? Should I just get two of the same?

I use both. Though they seem to be at odds with each other, they actually work together pretty well IMO. The only problem with Apple is their software compatibility - namely the games. Apple, however, is known very highly for their graphics and arts and stuff. I use the Apple Macintosh G4 desktop for Final Cut Pro - can't beat that for movie editing

kram

[IntegraGSR]

Keep in mind that G4s are old technology, dating back at least 3 years. The main problem with the G5 architecture that makes it hard to make mobile is heat (think of the G4 as a Northwood and a G5 as a Prescott in this situation) The G5 Tower, I believe, uses a specialized air current system to minimize noise and heat, but doing that to a laptop would be very difficult.

[ZeratulsAvenger]

Not to argue with the ideas of speed, but I would love to have my hands on a Powerbook/iBook sooner then I would a Dell/HP/Whatever else... What are you going to be doing? I think ya should consider that, since if you are going to be carrying it around and typing and MSN/AIM/YIM then why does it matter then "in tests the G3 performs equal to a P3?" I mean I know an iBook/Powerbook can handle on that just dandy. If you are going to be doing Photoshop and other applications that require a lot of CPU/RAM work, then a Powerbook still works(not an iBook as well from what I know, since RAM is more limited from what I remember). If you are going to be playing UT2K4 and Doom 3, then go with Dell and HP. I don't see any reason to sacrifice getting to use an OS that you prefer just because you want it to be FAST FAST FAST unless you are really going to be using that.

Again, personally I would take the iBook/Powerbook over an HP/Dell... but I also would probably kill to get myself one of dem Laptops

Apple-
• 768MB DDR266 (256MB built-in & 512MB SO-DIMM)
• 60GB Ultra ATA drive
• Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
• AirPort Extreme Card
• Bluetooth Module
• Keyboard/Mac OS X - U.S. English
• 14.1-inch TFT XGA display
• 1.2GHz PowerPC G4
• ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 w/ 32MB DDR video memory
Subtotal $1,749.00

*curses that Dell has some whack spec's page...*
Dell-
1.5GHz Pentium M
128MB DDR ATI's MOBILITY RADEON™ 9600 PROTURBO
512MB RAM
60GB HD
24X CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive
Intel PRO/Wireless 2200 Internal Wireless (802.11 b/g, 54Mbps)
Subtotal-$2,034.00, $1,884 after their "rebates"

Oh ya, and G5's in laptops are not any time soon I dont think, although I am hoping that by my college days they work that out since that would be sweeeeet

[kram 2.0]

Originally Posted by ZeratulsAvenger Not to argue with the ideas of speed, but I would love to have my hands on a Powerbook/iBook sooner then I would a Dell/HP/Whatever else... What are you going to be doing? I think ya should consider that, since if you are going to be carrying it around and typing and MSN/AIM/YIM then why does it matter then "in tests the G3 performs equal to a P3?" I mean I know an iBook/Powerbook can handle on that just dandy. If you are going to be doing Photoshop and other applications that require a lot of CPU/RAM work, then a Powerbook still works(not an iBook as well from what I know, since RAM is more limited from what I remember). If you are going to be playing UT2K4 and Doom 3, then go with Dell and HP. I don't see any reason to sacrifice getting to use an OS that you prefer just because you want it to be FAST FAST FAST unless you are really going to be using that.

Couldn't have said it better myself - good job. Despite claims that Apple is an "amateur"'s computer, I beg to differ myself - I use it all the time and it's a heck of a lot easier and faster than the Toshiba laptop I have here.

"Think Different"

kram

[i486]

I would get the IBOOK. I use 2 MACs daily, and the OS is great, once you get used to it. My current laptop is a 500mhz tadpole SPARCle running solaris 9, of course.

[hobey19]

i bought a ibook g4 for school, and use a desktop with xp pro. i don't care what the benchmarks say, that thing ain't slow. i have worked with many laptops since i have been down here, and i will take my 12" ibook over any of the other ones. not only does it looks sweet, but with everything built in and tiny, you can take it with and weight isn't a big deal. plus, their educational discoutns and support are amazing. consider this another vote for the ibook in a college situation.

benchmarks don't mean anything until you yourself sit down and use one. i was never a mac fan until i started using OSX. it integrates perfectly with my xp desktop

craig

[IronMentality]

This is the thing. I can get either an HP or Dell Laptop for $1800 loaded, and it'll have 4 billion times the thing as an iBook.

For example, either a P4 3.2 ghz w/HT or an Athlon 64+ 3700 processor is going to be over 3 times as fast as a G4 processor which was cutting-edge three years ago.

Secondly, Dell and HP offer Education discounts like Apple. Dell will give 10% off the price plus an $150 mail in rebate if you get a 4 year full premium warranty with accidental damage coverage. HP will discount 10% off the price. While Apple will also do the same, you just get more for your money by going HP or Dell.

The monitor I can get on a Dell or HP for the $1800 price would be a 15.4" Widescreen with 1920x1200 resolution, not 1024x768.

The memory used will at least be 266mhz like the ones in the Apple laptops.

I prefer the Mac OS over Windows anyday, but the Windows OS still is "Ok." I will just be doing word processing and DVD watching mostly on the laptop, but if that's what an iBook costs (no matter what iBook or Powerbook) a PC equivalent in price is 3-4 times more powerful... that's why I started this thread once again about the G5 laptops but it looks like it'll unforunately be awhile.

Apple's look cooler and definitely are less of a hassle to use, and there is no denying that. But for my money, you just get more by going Dell or HP for notebooks.

[hobey19]

alrigth, if thats all you are going to be using it for, the slowest g4 ibook is oging to do everything you need it to, which can be had for 1300 w/ educational discounts. for an extra 69 bucks, you can get a 20gb ipod (after $200 mail in rebate). i would agree that the ones you pointed out are going to be faster, but you just said yourself you don't need it.

you are comparing apples to oranges in your analogy, and your pricing is a bit off on the apple side. not trying to sway you (ok, well, i am), but i just don't get your logic. you say you don't need the extra, and that you like apples better, and yet you are still going in the opposite direction. just a bit contradictory, thats all

craig

[IronMentality]

I am having second thoughts though... It's just that, for the same amount of money, I can get such a better screen, a way better video card, and a 3 times as fast processor... But I like the Mac OS a lot and the way they look a lot better.

[IronMentality]

Originally Posted by hobey19 alrigth, if thats all you are going to be using it for, the slowest g4 ibook is oging to do everything you need it to, which can be had for 1300 w/ educational discounts. for an extra 69 bucks, you can get a 20gb ipod (after $200 mail in rebate). i would agree that the ones you pointed out are going to be faster, but you just said yourself you don't need it. you are comparing apples to oranges in your analogy, and your pricing is a bit off on the apple side. not trying to sway you (ok, well, i am), but i just don't get your logic. you say you don't need the extra, and that you like apples better, and yet you are still going in the opposite direction. just a bit contradictory, thats all craig

Where can I get a iPod for just $69 after rebates? The Slowest iBook for me is a 12 incher and I can get it for $949. However, I'd want the bigger 14 inch screen and with .mac bundle, AppleCare, and 512MB of RAM with bigger hard drive -- I'd end up spending around $1700.

The iPod for $69 is very appealing to me -- where is this deal? It surely isn't directly from Apple.

[hobey19]

but its not the same price, thats what i am trying to say. sure, you can spend 1800 for a mac if you want to, but for what you are going to be doing w/ it, i don't see the need. save 500, get something you like.

craig

[ZeratulsAvenger]

Well if all you were asking is if the G5's are coming before school might start, then no.

And you seem to be more dead set on getting a PC computer, so just do it. You can get Microsoft Word, a free printer, a 15.4" screen with 1920x1200 resolution, and "more."

Case closed I guess...

EDIT:
God... how many times must you bring up that you can get a processor 3 times as fast for the same price? How much faster do you need to open Word? You can open documents 3 times faster with the PC then you will the mac... how fast do you really need to open that document though? Do you want to play that DVD on fast forward? I swear... I am trying to be as kind as I can be, but it's hard with you throwing those numbers around. Go to a Mac store and try out an iBook or Powerbook and then go to a store and try a Dell/HP if you must, but you are not getting a G5 in a laptop all that soon, and you and not gonna get that "3 times" worth of speed you sound like you need.

[kram 2.0]

Originally Posted by IronMentality This is the thing. I can get either an HP or Dell Laptop for $1800 loaded, and it'll have 4 billion times the thing as an iBook. For example, either a P4 3.2 ghz w/HT or an Athlon 64+ 3700 processor is going to be over 3 times as fast as a G4 processor which was cutting-edge three years ago. Secondly, Dell and HP offer Education discounts like Apple. Dell will give 10% off the price plus an $150 mail in rebate if you get a 4 year full premium warranty with accidental damage coverage. HP will discount 10% off the price. While Apple will also do the same, you just get more for your money by going HP or Dell. The monitor I can get on a Dell or HP for the $1800 price would be a 15.4" Widescreen with 1920x1200 resolution, not 1024x768. The memory used will at least be 266mhz like the ones in the Apple laptops. I prefer the Mac OS over Windows anyday, but the Windows OS still is "Ok." I will just be doing word processing and DVD watching mostly on the laptop, but if that's what an iBook costs (no matter what iBook or Powerbook) a PC equivalent in price is 3-4 times more powerful... that's why I started this thread once again about the G5 laptops but it looks like it'll unforunately be awhile. Apple's look cooler and definitely are less of a hassle to use, and there is no denying that. But for my money, you just get more by going Dell or HP for notebooks.

Well, you seem to be saying you like Apple, yet comparing things in favor, drastically so, or Windows OS. First, the academic discounts. The new Cramandjam offers by Apple really do a nice job cutting prices - I think it's a 200 USD rebate along with an iPod. Also, the academic laptops are pretty low in price to start out with - the lowest iBook is 1000 USD.

And the resolution - that's where Macs shine. Macintosh Computers, if you've been to local retail stores Apple section lately, have the large screen which in such case, makes it more useful and versatile. I just grabbed the iBook G4 that I have, inserted Pirates of the Carribean, and the graphics are amazing...bundled with the ATI Mobility Radeon 9200, but really, their screen.

And tell me - how do you define "powerful"? The G4 processors are plenty powerful. As Hobey saw, as I did myself, the iBook runs not far behind the Windows Desktop I have in my sig, no matter what the tests suggest.


kram

[csp]

I was content with my 700 mghs g3 for 2 years as my main computer, and I'm a speed freek.

[Mac Medic]

It seems you want clock speed rather than performance, so I suggest a windows notebook. If you just want a good notebook at a good price look at this one. I don't really see any reason to get the 14" over the 12" as the resolution is identical. But windows is probably the best bet for you.

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/families/powerbook/


12"powerbook w/superdrive. Free Case, Free memory upgrade (after rebates though)


$1,494.00!
12.1-inch TFT Display
1GHz PowerPC G4
$300 Price Drop!
Limited Supply! Place your order now
1024x768 resolution
1GHz PowerPC G4
512K L2 cache
256MB DDR266 SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA/100
DVD-R/CD-RW SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce FX
Go 5200 (32MB DDR)
Full size keyboard
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
2 USB(2.0)
1 FireWire(400)
Built-In Bluetooth
AirPort Extreme Ready
Mini-DVI out
Mac OS X 10.3


edit:

Apple said the G5 will not be in the powerbook this year for sure, and prob not till late next year.

Also check out Apple's special deals section. New 15"PB for less than $1700,

12"(1.33ghz refurb) $1350

Not bad considering what you get.

[roomwithamoose]

Macs and PCs have completely different applications. In moy opinion, they should never even be compared. You get a PC if you're the kind of person who likes to get your hands dirty and mess with a computer. That also includes risks, like stability (although less of an issue with XP). You get a Mac if you're the kind of person who just wants a computer to do what it's supposed to and not run risks of hardware issues or compatibility. I have a PC right now, I will get a Mac to do film editing once I can afford it. Most serious computer people have one of each, because of the different applications. I don't prefer one over the other, I prefer both.

And prices shouldn't be a factor, let alone processor speeds. The reason a Mac gets so expensive is because there is only one manufactuerer, thus no competition in that corner of the market. PC components are cheap because of the millions of makers. They HAVE to drop their prices to sell stuff. People know if the want a Mac, they will pay for a Mac; and get the quality of a Mac.

When it comes to the G5, don't even think about waiting for the iBook version. It'll be way too long. As mentioned by other already, heat is too much of a factor. Putting a G5 processor in a laptop will involve carrying around and air conditioning unit!!

So don't let something like processor speeds determine your purchase. If you have the money for a iBook, and you want something stable, durable, and easy to use, and something you won't have to (or get to) fiddle with, do the Mac. If you don't have the money, or want to play with it or put on games, and maybe upgrade some stuff, get the PC laptop. It's that easy.

[Mac Medic]

Not really more expensive now-a-days either.

http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html

[IronMentality]

After playing around with the Powerbook at Micro Center today, I can't help but say I love it. Firstly, I wasn't aware the monitor was a widescreen, I just thought it was a straight up 15" monitor. The resolution was amazing, it was lightweight, and it really did have lots of ports for connectivity of different external devices. Plus, the operating system is just friendlier and easier to use.

Now, one thing I noticed on apple.com today is that Apple is selling the last of it's Power Mac G4 computers. When I clicked on the link, it also was trying to get rid of the 15.2" Powerbooks as well...

Does this mean the Dual G4 Powerbooks are just a month away? I know they won't be unveiling a G5 laptop, but I've heard they are going to put Dual G4's in there Powerbooks.

I didn't care for the iBook, due to the low resolution... and they also seemed to be made really cheaply compared to the Powerbooks. I however, am definitely going to pick up a Powerbook for school one way or the other (especially with that iPod deal).

[ZeratulsAvenger]

Ya I saw that deal as well, as well as the the Powerbook in that section with the G4... Not sure what that is Have you dropped by MacRumors(I think thats the site)? They would probably have a better idea then most. Didn't even think they were planning on a Dual G4 laptop, that would be awesome Glad you liked the Powerbook

[IronMentality]

Originally Posted by ZeratulsAvenger Ya I saw that deal as well, as well as the the Powerbook in that section with the G4... Not sure what that is Have you dropped by MacRumors(I think thats the site)? They would probably have a better idea then most. Didn't even think they were planning on a Dual G4 laptop, that would be awesome Glad you liked the Powerbook

I also noticed the one they are trying to get rid of is a 1ghz chip, so a earlier revision of the Powerbook. All major stores across the U.S. are now discounting the current Powerbooks... so that means there _has_ to be a new revision coming up shortly.

I am simply blown away by how thin, light, and how easy to use the Powerbook was today.

[Mac Medic]

The Dual G4 powerbook is actually a dual core G4 chip. It has yet to be released but has been announced by motorola. No idea if Apple will use it in the powerbook, but it's probably a safe bet seeing as the G5 has real heat issues to contend with.