That P4P800 Deluxe

[Vigo]

Posted a little while ago about a blown motherboard. Couldnt get any "advice" but it appears (after several more tests) that it is the socket (thought it was the agp slot at first)...

Cpu 1 (mine) worked in another board.
Cpu 2 (a friends) wouldnt work in the p4p800.

I already sent the thing out... asus didnt give me a problem, even if it took a while over the phone to get to them.

I left out that I installed an aftermarket sink/fan on the socket. Its the thermaltake POLO735 and the thing does way a ton. However, its rated for P4 processors and I could not find anything from asus on heatsink restrictions. I heard someone mention AMD socket limitations but nothing about Intel.

The sink worked fine on the chip when I first installed it... but I moved the computer shortly after... I assume it was a combo of the movement combined with the heatsink weight that caused the problem (all the other components checked out fine- it is indeed the motherboard).

Is there any such information on intel sockets for weight limits on the sink?

[Yuanji]

i believe it is 450G for the weight limit on a socket 478 MoBo.

[bailey]

the stock heatsink and fan will perform great with that cpu, even when over clocked.

[Vigo]

Originally Posted by bailey the stock heatsink and fan will perform great with that cpu, even when over clocked.

No, it did not. The stock heat sink isn't enough cooling. Ambient room temps are high and there's poor air circulation in the room.

[lil Jimmie]

Originally Posted by bailey the stock heatsink and fan will perform great with that cpu, even when over clocked.

I agree and if not you got other problems besides room temps, make sure the heatsink is properly seated.

[Vigo]

I'm sorry; perhaps you've never actually pushed a 2.6 northwood, or more precisely, my 2.6 northwood.

The heatsink was seated fine for almost a year. I bought the POLO735 to lower temperatures as it was hitting 65 load at 3 gigahertz and running unstable at load beyond that. At 3.12 it would occasionally reboot due to overheating at full load.

The heatsink was seated fine several times. Cleaned, but not lapped (Didnt want to remove the pad). I did lap the thermaltake. I'm sorry you'd like to disagree and believe the stock heatsink/fan is fine for overclocking- if thats your experience, so be it. There are better heatsink/fan combos that do a better job and the stock was not enough for me.

[bailey]

Originally Posted by Vigo I'm sorry; perhaps you've never actually pushed a 2.6 northwood, or more precisely, my 2.6 northwood. The heatsink was seated fine for almost a year. I bought the POLO735 to lower temperatures as it was hitting 65 load at 3 gigahertz and running unstable at load beyond that. At 3.12 it would occasionally reboot due to overheating at full load. The heatsink was seated fine several times. Cleaned, but not lapped (Didnt want to remove the pad). I did lap the thermaltake. I'm sorry you'd like to disagree and believe the stock heatsink/fan is fine for overclocking- if thats your experience, so be it. There are better heatsink/fan combos that do a better job and the stock was not enough for me.

I disagree with you totally. a p4-northwood cpu will NOT cause a reboot because of heat.
it just can't happen because if the cpu gets too warm, it will just throttel down to a safe speed till the temp gets back into the normal range, and it will not shut down,
also the 2.6 should hit 3.0 gig easly without any rise in temp.
the problem is more likely poor quality ram that does not support the over clock without crashing
you might look into the heat problem some more and consider some faster and better quality ram if you want to over clock better.

also you probly increased the core voltage too much to get your overclock, you do not do that with a northwood, its not necessary at all.
look at my sig and the temps I am running at is in the mid 30's C

[Vigo]

You can disagree.

And there may be contributing factors to the lack of a stable OC to boot, but poor ram isn't causing my cpu to overheat.

At 2.99 gigahertz bios sees the cpu at mid 40's (on idle, yes). Asus Probe, and MBM5 follow it up to just below or just above 70 degrees depending on room temperature. Thats load with 2 instance of F@h running. The thermal lead from my case shows cooler temps, but even that reaches 60 celcius. The lead is off to the side of the cpu though so I dont rely upon it; the apps may not be on target but theyre high even if theyre off by a little.

Core Voltage isn't upped, upping it doesnt even cause much of a rise in temps. Thats with the AI Overclock of 10%.

Manual I can set the Vcore as low as 1.55, below that I cant get the rig to boot. Theres little temperature increase from 1.55 to 1.65, greater when I hit 1.75. The ram is whats probably preventing me from booting with a lower Vcore than 1.55 at the BUS I have it set at. Yes, there are other factors that prevent me from OCing higher- but they aren't causing my cpu to overheat (aside the room temperaturs-thus case temperature as I already stated). I can't see how the ram is causing my cpu to overheat.

And you are wrong when you claim a northwood can't reboot to overheating. If you boot without the heatsink attached but the fan plugged in, the machine reboots rather quickly, OC or not.

I'm happy that you can get your 2.4 pushing 3 with stock cooling. But don't presume that my chip with its stepping can push that type of an OC with stock cooling because you can with your chip and conditions.

[bailey]

please don't misunderstand what I said

I feel that you have two seperate problems

1, the overheating

2. the instibility of overclocking with poor ram

maybe I should have put them seperatly instead of on one line.

there are too many people running this same board, and you seam to be the only one with this problem and I am just pointing out the areas that might need some looking into, look for more ideas on here.

are you positive that you don't have the prescott core cpu ?
as they do run hotter than the northwood.

[Yuanji]

just wondering, what RAM (exact Model) are you using and at what FSB do you see instabilities?

[lil Jimmie]

Originally Posted by Vigo I'm sorry; perhaps you've never actually pushed a 2.6 northwood, or more precisely, my 2.6 northwood.

No, but I have pushed many 2.4C to over 3.2 on that board as well as a couple of 2.6C to over 3.2, a few 2.8C to over 3.4 all with stock heatsinks and one case fan, I've also had a 2.8E cranked up to 3.7. Temps were never and issue cept for the Prescott and it would still roll at 75C-80C

I only have 4 build on that same board, all are overclocked, all have stock heatsinks except for the Prescott, all are running @ 100% load 24/7 for months at a time with no problems.


I assume you have a quaility PSU

[Vigo]

Originally Posted by bailey please don't misunderstand what I said I feel that you have two seperate problems 1, the overheating 2. the instibility of overclocking with poor ram

Maybe I didn't catch that. So now, as I've been trying to press; the heatsink/fan isn't adequate cooling for my cpu. Thats all I said up top. So going back to it; the cpu core does run hot at an overclock upwards of 220 FSB, and at 3 gigs, the heat issue become such that the computer will occasionally reboot if the room temperature is particular.

There are a variety of other reasons that contribute to the temperatres, room temp being one of the most problematic. This much I've stated; and so the PIV stock unit does not cool my cpu for a decent OC. Thus I bought the thermaltake.

That was all I said.

Originally Posted by vigo No, it did not. The stock heat sink isn't enough cooling. Ambient room temps are high and there's poor air circulation in the room.

The heatsink was replaced because of CPU temps. So yes, I do agree number 2 is a separate issue. Sorry if this topic got off track to the OC ability of my package. Its simply an issue on CPU temps.

Yes. It is a Northwood 2.6.

Originally Posted by yuanji just wondering, what RAM (exact Model) are you using and at what FSB do you see instabilities?

Its the Value Ram 2100. Oc's to 3200 easily though which is more than I can ask since both chips were free after rebate (office max had them at 30 bucks with 30 dollars worth of rebates last black friday).

Thought about spending the 200 bucks for some Corsair XMS or Geil Ultra, 1 gig 3200. But I'm waiting till after christmas to decide (Hyper X has suprisingly poor timings at 3200 and is a little more pricey).

Again though, I already stated the ram was horrible for the OC. The OC ability is not my concern. Its the cpu temperature when I OC. Because I can run the computer stable at 3.12 gigahertz, if its kept cool (which during the winter, with a window open- it does keep cool). Heat blowing in this tiny room (central air) and I can't even keep it at 3 gigahertz (240 bus?) and completely stable.

I spent the 35 bucks to solve the cpu heat issue. Not to OC the core further. The ram won't let me go past 3.12 because it'll fail at boot.

I guess I'll lap and try the heatsink again since it wasnt until I moved the machine (car ride) that the motherboard went... and be more careful around it. I didn't realize they made heatsinks with a weight exedence so far beyond suggested manufacturer specs from intel (or amd). Since people buy them I'm sure they're fine so long as you're careful. Just have to be a little more careful.

[bailey]

ok, thats all fine a dandy, I feel that the heat problem can be solved, but maybe the cpu you got is a bad steping, i really don't know, is it that much differant than the 2.6C, my cpu have always had the c at the end of it.
still feel something is not right about it though. and thats why you got the problem you have now, probly if you had not moved it , it wouls still be working.
anyway good luck on your quest and anything I can do to help, just post it here.

[Yuanji]

from what i've gathered, 2.6 northwoods are bad overclockers. the good overclockers are the 2.4C M0, 2.8C M0, or the 3.0C D1 SLW6K since all of those are 30 cap northwoods. your instabilities may be a result of a chip which can't OC well. i haven't heard of anybody having too much heat problems with a northwood, just SNDS or GNDS. value ram definately does not overclock well to 3200 if you have 2100 RAM. for good ram, you just gotta do some research. HyperX low latency and XMS XL, while both having TCCD chips in them, don't overclock as well as the OCZ PLatinum Rev2, Gskill RAM, PDP Patriot XBL, or the PQI Turbo. the last 2 being cheaper then the first 2 so i'm counting mhz to dollars.

[Vigo]

I asked about the patriot from PDP. All Ive heard was on the negative spectrum. I assume PQI is close to it.

The kingston has really high latency for the price, so I'll probably go with corsair, geil or crucial.

OCZ also had pretty high latency in its price tier at ddr400 speeds. Personally I think its all marketing like the Hyper X. Crucial is my first choice and probably what I'll go with.

Till then (if then) I'll be happy with the value ram. It does reach 3.12 stable. If... IF I can solve the heat issue.

I'll do a follow up with the POLO heatsink and other small upgrades when I get the motherboard back, incase anyones still interested.

Thanks for the input (everyone).

[Yuanji]

oh all of the ones i have told you about use TCCD chips. they are all 2-2-2-5 timing ram. you have to search for those timings. those are the ones which are best for OCing.
i think OCZ and Gskill are using EL TCCD chips which can respond better to voltages then the early TCCD chips. i know OCZ and PQI are using brainpower PCBs so they should OC better.

[bailey]

the last time I looked, OCZ was doing the best, but they had a bad run, so some of the bad ones may still be floating around, they have sence corrected the problem

[carlmccut]

With all the hastle of heat why not invest in a faster cpu ?????

[Yuanji]

Originally Posted by carlmccut With all the hastle of heat why not invest in a faster cpu ?????

overclocking will offer performance increases rather then buying stock. Example: 3.6 Ghz 800 FSB is running on a very high 18x multiplier. now, lets say you take a 3ghz and overclock it to 3.6. the 3 ghz has a 15x multiplier so each mhz in FSB doesn't increase the CPU as much. now, the 3ghz will run 3.6 at 960FSB. While the 2 clock speeds are the same, the 3.0 overclocked will outperform the 3.6 stock because of the higher FSB.

[bailey]

althought that may be true, you will not see that much improvement in performance to be worth all the trouble, you will not even see it in normal computer operations.
a few numbers increase is about all you will see in benchmarks.
even going to a faster cpu, you won't see much increase.

once you get to 3 gig, theres really no point in going any faster as the programs will still be wating for your input.

[Redfallon]

Originally Posted by carlmccut With all the hastle of heat why not invest in a faster cpu ?????

That method, too us, is not nearly as enjoyable. OCing may not be for some, but for others it is

[carlmccut]

No disrespect intended. I have a rig that I dabble with OC'ing.

[Yuanji]

Originally Posted by bailey althought that may be true, you will not see that much improvement in performance to be worth all the trouble, you will not even see it in normal computer operations. a few numbers increase is about all you will see in benchmarks. even going to a faster cpu, you won't see much increase. once you get to 3 gig, theres really no point in going any faster as the programs will still be wating for your input.

it depends. some of the very CPU intensive games such as Far Cry and Half Life 2, get a slight boost. oh that and the fact that intel doesn't make a 4ghz Proc