UPS VA Rating? UPS & VA Techs come one come all... (Power Protection)

[Prudent]

UPS:

I've tried the APC power calculator guide in order to determine my VA requirements.

(I came up with something like a 500VA-800VA. (I don't know witch "VA", look to next two paragraphs for why.)

But I'm apprehensive to trust this answer.

In the calculator they did not preference certain factors such as Video Card, AMD 64 3400+, PSU, and so on.
This makes me wonder of how accurate the APC power UPS calculator was.

I'm not experienced with UPSs so I wouldn’t know. I've never used one either.

The reason I keep going on about it is because I have to choose between a roughly 59$ 500VA UPS or a 115$ 1100VA.
And I want to get the right one. No less and no more then I need. And I can't figure my brain about VA requirement.

I realize that the lower the VA rating the less amount of time the system will stay on. But here is what I'm worried about.
No one would put a 20VA UPS on to a modern computer I'm sure because wouldn’t that then be dangerous or create no power protection?
In other words how sure do we have to be of not going lower then is our computers VA requirement?

Because one the one hand we have a 500VA UPS at a nice cheap price (But I wont buy if VA accuracy is very important) one their other that expensive one.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...101-128&depa=0
Or
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...107-113&depa=0

or even this
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...107-109&depa=0

Not that I wont get the expensive one if I need to but if not needed and VA accuracy is not too important then... etc.
In other other words what could go wrong if my UPS had less VA power in it? Is that an Unknown scenario?

Or if you know a lot about UPS VA ratings and stuff, check out these specs and let us know what kind of VA ratting you estimate.

Here are my specs, scroll to the second system specs posted:
http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.p...703#post867703

And don't hesitate to ask anything extra or input anything extra

I so hope I was discriptive enough, becuse I know its hard to visualize what I'm talking about.

[HAL9000]

You're not lessening your protection with a lower VA rating. I have a 300VA on my P4 system... I get about 5-7 minutes run time.... more then enough time to shut down. I think a 500VA would be plenty.

[bailey]

it all boils down to how long you will want your system to run without comerical power.
if you want to be able to shut it down as soon as the power is gone, then the smaller one will be fine.
if you want it to run longer so you can finish what your doing, or to make sure your able to save everything in a longer time period, or if you want the system to keep running longer incase it is just a short time period of power loss, then you will want a larger one.

personaly I would recommend the 1100va because that is the one I am useing,
but then I have 5 ups supplies in my shop so that everything will stay running.
Ialso have one with just my cable modem, router and network switches on it all by its self so that the network will not go off and I will still be able to use my laptop on the internet.

eather one will work just fine for you, its just that the bigger one will give you more time.
the more va you have - the more time you have.

[Prudent]

But what about wattage?

Is it ok to have this...
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...101-124&depa=0
[100Watt to 200Watts.]

And still run it with a 480Watt PSU computer. The PSU will still get as much power as it needs to suck through?

[Cricket]

The purpose of a UPS is to keep your computer running long enough during a power outage so you can save your work and shut the computer down properly. The battery power doesn't kick in until the power goes out, so the system will be drawing power directly from the outlet when there is no power outage.

Cricket

[bailey]

Originally Posted by Prudent But what about wattage? Is it ok to have this... http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...101-124&depa=0 [100Watt to 200Watts.] And still run it with a 480Watt PSU computer. The PSU will still get as much power as it needs to suck through?

one that small will give you about 1 1/2 minutes to shut you system down.
if you use the software that comes with it , it will automaticly save everything and shut down you system safly.
but personally I like a bit more time as you can also have what is called a brown-out, which is low voltage and may only last for a few min, instead of shutting down, you could still keep working till the the battery gets to a point of safe shutdown, say about 15 to 30 min.

but in answere to your question that one would work ok, but would be the bare minum.

I like to look at it this way
your running a laptop with the ac adapter and the power goes off, you can keep working till the battery in the laptop runs down, an hour or two.
I like that much better than 1 1/2 minutes.

also with the better ups's your system is running on the battery all the time, it is isolated from the power line completely and the power line is constantly charging the battery, there is no switching over.
that method gives you the best protection from power line iregularties

[Prudent]

I think I'm seeing it better now.

But how can I tell if a UPSs is advanced enough to filter the power through the system?

Is it dependant on model or VA ratting, or something entirely different?

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by Prudent I think I'm seeing it better now. But how can I tell if a UPSs is advanced enough to filter the power through the system? Is it dependant on model or VA ratting, or something entirely different?

Actually, the power is "filtered" through the power supply. Good quality power supply will filter the power so that it is fed smoothly to the system. Poor quality power supplies don't do as good a job of this and you end up with "dirty" power or power with lots of ripple (high/low spikes and dips).

Some of the more expensive UPS will "condition" the power going to the power supply. I haven't been keeping up with UPS's lately so I'm not up to date with the latest features and stuff.

Have you been to the APC web site? I think they have lots of UPS information there.

Cricket

[Prudent]

Yes I have researched the site.

And I found this article... I belive it says that you should have a UPSs with at least 80% extra capacity?
http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en...cGFnZT0x&p_li=

What does derated mean? Did I missunderstand that one?

---

Hey are UPSs really all that important?

I'm planing to use a Antec NeoPower - Great PSU and company.

So is it really all that important to grab a UPS?

---

What about this surge protector? Is it good enough?
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...106-201&depa=0
Its APC and its a surge protector.

[Cricket]

If you live in an area that suffers lots of brown-outs, rolling blackouts, frequent power outages or just plain unsteady power then a UPS is essential.

But if you happen to live in an area that has very reliable power, you could get by without one.

On my own computers I have one on a surge suppressor, one on a line conditioner and one on a UPS. The one on the UPS is my wife's computer and she does her school work on it so we figured it's better to be safe than sorry. The other two computers aren't used for work or school as much so I didn't put a UPS on those.

You gotta evaluate your own situation and decide if it warrants a UPS or not.

Cricket

[Prudent]

(Hypotheticaly) Then it would be just fine to pick up a 30$ UPS with a 25VA ratting?

This leaves (A lot ) less time for settling down every thing.

---

What I've gotten confused about is this...
if the ups turns its own battery on only when needed then wouldn't that mean it wouldn't protect the compter in the case of hazards such as lighting or brown outs?

---

I triied to find an UPS for sale that says it can "condition" the line, but I still can't find those...

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by Prudent (Hypotheticaly) Then it would be just fine to pick up a 30$ UPS with a 25VA ratting?

I guess so.

Originally Posted by Prudent This leaves (A lot ) less time for settling down every thing.

Yup.

Originally Posted by Prudent What I've gotten confused about is this... if the ups turns its own battery on only when needed then wouldn't that mean it wouldn't protect the compter in the case of hazards such as lighting or brown outs?

My information about UPS's is probably dated since I haven't done any research on them lately. I read up about them when I first started building computers in 1997 and really haven't kept up with them since. I think what bailey said is probably more accurate...the UPS is running your computer off the battery (or through the battery). This would make it more effective against brown-outs and black-outs.

Originally Posted by Prudent I triied to find an UPS for sale that says it can "condition" the line, but I still can't find those...

I think if the computer is being fed power from or through the battery, the power is probably being "conditioned" since that would make the battery act like a capacitor and that would help keep the power "clean" or steady. But I'm just guessing at this point.

Cricket

[bailey]

pretty good guess there, thats excatly whats going on.
as a general rule, the comerical power lines are whats refered to as being very dirty, it does have voltage spikes as high as 12,000 volts for a period of just a few nanoseconds, which cannot be read with a standard volt meter.
because of this fact, any electronic equipment should be run with some type of power conditioner or isolation.

I good quality ups will do just that, the output of the ups is derived fully from the batteries and is completely isolated from the power lines and all its distructive properties.
the cheap ups has a relay in it that will switch from power line to the battery.
that way the output is from the power lines, it does usally have the spike suppresors in it but that is no differant that useing a power strip.

the best ones have a power line conditioner built into the that will do this, but it is for the charging of the batteries only, and all the outputs will be run off the batteries.

I would suggest that you consider the $120.00 APC 1100 watt UPS,
if for no other reason than it is a very cheap price to pay for insurance to protect your computer, and at the same time protect your data when you do lose the comerical power.

[rjfvillarosa]

Originally Posted by bailey I would suggest that you consider the $120.00 APC 1100 watt UPS, if for no other reason than it is a very cheap price to pay for insurance to protect your computer, and at the same time protect your data when you do lose the comerical power.

This has been an interesting thread, because living here in PR the electricity supply is very dirty. I have surge protectors but not a UPS yet.
Bailey... quick question, aside from the length of time the battery will last after the power goes out, what is your considered opinion of the service life of a UPS battery in a good unit that is, like the one in the quote above?
thanx
Richard.

[bailey]

the rated battery life of most of the ups batteries is from 3 to 5 years. some have had lasted much longer, some have been much shorter, I have replaced a few so far, they are the gel cell type of battery.

as a experiment I have a 450va apc supply running with a 12v marine deep cycle battery, been working good now for 3 years.

[rjfvillarosa]

I have an old UPS kicking about the workshop floor somewhere with a dead battery in it, its been here a while (2 years maybe). When the customer brought it in I checked on a replacement battery and it was over $100 so the customer just went a bought a new UPS, any ideas where to get a more reasonably priced replacement battery?

[bailey]

I buy all my replacement batteries from here

http://www.batterystation.com/

they have good prices and products, plus I can drive there to get what I need

[rjfvillarosa]

Originally Posted by bailey plus I can drive there to get what I need

Those prices are really good compared to what I saw here in PR, gonna ruin the car and get my feet wet driving from here but what the heck....
Thanx for the info.

[seagull]

bailey ???? How long does your 12v deep cycle setup last ?

I live in a bad power area and have been thinking along the same lines as you.

I ment if you have a power out.

[bailey]

I have not tested it for that yet, but I have never had it run down yet.

I also have a back up generator that I fire up if it going to be off for a long time.

[seagull]

bailey
I have a backup gen also. I have it wired into a 12 volt backup deep cycle RV battery that is sitting by my desk. I have the battery set up with 12v lites for the office. I also have a 600w inverter for other things. When we have bad blackouts it usualy takes 4--6 hrs for a repair. Thats why I was wondering if I could also wire in the UPS to the backup battery.

Thanks
doug

[bailey]

I would continue to use the ups back-up off the generator in your case. as long as the battery in the ups is good, but eather way it should work fine.

be sure that you ups is the type that does run of the battery full time first.
the cheaper ones only use the battery when power is off.

[seagull]

"be sure that you ups is the type that does run of the battery full time first.
the cheaper ones only use the battery when power is off"


How do I find that out??

[bailey]

the instruction manual that came with it will tell you.
what is the make and model of it

[seagull]

Manual does not say. It is a Tripp Lite 525.

[Prudent]

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merch...tegory_Code=SP

I think I found your UPS.

But I still don't know what we are looking for, in order to determine if it "conditions" the power line or if its one of those cheap "only turns on in black outs"?

[bailey]

looked it up and that model does run off the power line till it sences a power loss , then it switches to the battery in 3 to 4 milliseconds,
so it does not run off the battery full time.

[seagull]

From what I can see. It only trips on bat when AC is lost..

I can use this one at another location. What is a good one to buy ?

Need one with phone protection (dial up. live in the boonies)

My neighbor lost his computer through the phone line.

[bailey]

I would recommend the same as I am useing.
APC 1100 pro
it covers everything and it is on sale at sams club for $120
I plan on getting a couple more of them

[seagull]

Thanks for all your help !!!! I will check out the APC 1100 pro.