Wanting To Build AMD 64 System. Help On Choices?

[mjkovis]

I would like to start off by apologizing for starting a new thread on 'New Build' but I could not really determine what my needs are to build this new system without having to start this thread. I am also sorry for the length of the post! I tried to keep it as simple as possible.

I was planning on building a new AMD XP system (about $1,000 US) and had picked out everything I needed from cables to motherboard, but I started to look at the price of getting an AMD 64 processor and motherboard and figured for a couple hundred extra dollars I could build that. I dont know where to start really. I am honestly just looking for a motherboard, processor and possibly RAM, depending on what processor I get. I am just wanting to build a new computer that can last me while I am in school. My current computer is going to my father.

Motherboard:
- nVidia Chipset (bad experiences with VIA chipset)
- (4) or more SATA ports
- Gigabyte or ASUS (prefer either, but other manufacturer suggestions taken)
- Onboard Sound and LAN (must have)
- AGP (prefered, but PCI-E SLI would be nice too)
- Socket 754 or 939 (read somewhere that one would be discontinued?)

Processor:
- Best bang for my buck!
- Heatsink w/fan (prefered, not just heatsink and buy fan extra)
- Of course, right Socket (754 or 939) for motherboard

RAM:
- Listed below, but need whatever would be best for the system. I believe that the PC3200 should be ok.

I have everything else picked out because it was what I would have been purchasing with the AMD XP system. The components are listed below:

- ANTEC 480w TrueBlue PSU
- Plextor DVD-RW 716A or 716SA (beige w/black bezel) (btw, thank you RJ!!! )
- Sony 16x DVD-ROM (black)
- Sony Floppy (black)
- MSI GeForce 6600 GT
- 2x512 MB PC3200 PDP/Patriot RAM
- Zalman Fan Controller
- Windows XP Pro
- WD HD 74 GB Raptor SATA
- WD HD 80 GB 7200RPM SATA

Yes the Sony will stay, and the Plextor, and the video card, and the PSU, and the hard drives. My case is blue so I want the PSU because my current 350w wont be powerful enough and is going with my computer anyways. I would like for my Plextor drive to be a SATA interface as well (hence the fact I want 4 SATA ports). The only question in my components would be if my RAM could stay or not.

Any suggestions for me would surely be appreciated in the utmost way! Links to any products help as well. I have left some guidelines above, if you didnt notice what I am looking for.

Thanks in advance everyone!!!

AK

[spyder003]

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...80717-R-240418

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=321916

Just did the very same three upgrades for myself last night. It's a bit pricey, but this is a great setup IMO.

Have you checked out the features on this board? I think you might like it.

The only thing I got differently was the Winchester core instead of the Newcastle. The 3500+ in the bundle is the Newcastle.

[timbit]

el cheapo setup (socket 754 of course):
Athlon 64 2800+ ($120) with Gigabyte GA-K8NS Pro ($92)
AMD will not be making any more cpu's for socket 754 (except for semprons), so if you want to be able to upgrade, this is not the way to go.
TOTAL: $212

middle of the road (socket 939, agp):
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ ($193) with the Gigabyte GA-K8NS Ultra 939 ($110)
No PCI express.
TOTAL: $303

middle of the road (socket 939, pci-express):
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ ($193) with the Gigabyte K8NF-9 ($116)
No SLI
TOTAL: $309

SLI:
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ ($193) with the Asus K8N-SLI ($175)
TOTAL: $368

I went with the Athlon 64 3200+ for all of the 939 builds because it is the best bang for buck 939 cpu right now (i think, anyway...). the 3500 (next step up) is still around $270~$280. all of the boards listed have 4 SATA and nVidia chipsets. they are also all by Gigabyte or Asus. other mobo companies to consider might be abit, dfi, or chaintech (mid range, enthusiast, budget).

[mjkovis]

Thank you timbit and spyder003. I took a look at all of the setups and I really think I am liking the ASUS A8N-SLI motherboard. It has everything I want and more to play with. A bit pricey, but still probably worth it although I would be saving around $25.00 US getting the 6600 GT PCI-E video card instead of an AGP card.

What heatsink should I get though with the 3200+? Also, I take it that I can still keep the RAM I was planning on getting with the 3200+, correct? And lastly, each board DOES support ATAPI devices with SATA? I want to get the SATA Plextor DVD burner...

Originally Posted by timbit AMD will not be making any more cpu's for socket 754 (except for semprons), so if you want to be able to upgrade, this is not the way to go.

Exactly what I needed to know. I will stick with Socket 939 for sure. I want to be able to upgrade in the future.

AK

[timbit]

i like the zalman hsf combos. pretty easy to install, cool well, very quiet. this one is really good. it has a larger fan than mine, which means that it is quieter because it can spin slower. mine is already unnoticable in silent mode. the all copper version is $10 more.

however, the cpu comes with a good heatsink/fan already. if you aren't planning on overclocking (i wouldn't bother) and you don't mind a little noise, then you can stick with that.

as for the sata supporting atapi, i really have no clue. does it matter? i mean, are there boards with sata that doesn't support atapi?

[mjkovis]

Originally Posted by timbit however, the cpu comes with a good heatsink/fan already. if you aren't planning on overclocking (i wouldn't bother) and you don't mind a little noise, then you can stick with that.

I do not overclock and dont plan on it. I will just stick with the retail heatsink then. Whatever costs I can cut does not phase me one bit!

Originally Posted by timbit as for the sata supporting atapi, i really have no clue. does it matter? i mean, are there boards with sata that doesn't support atapi?

I didnt think so, just making sure really. I wanted to get this Plextor DVD burner, but would rather have it with a Serial ATA interface than using an IDE cable. Purely just my preference though. If I have to I will get the PATA drive rather than the SATA drive.

Also, would it be worth my while to get the A8N Deluxe ASUS board rather than the A8N board? The only real difference is the 4 extra SATA ports and the other LAN port I believe. What do you think?

AK

[spyder003]

Personally, the extra $15 is worth the dual NIC's, but I use them both. Not to mention the extra four SATA connections. If you don't plan on using the extra NIC, I wouldn't bother.

[mjkovis]

Originally Posted by spyder003 Personally, the extra $15 is worth the dual NIC's, but I use them both. Not to mention the extra four SATA connections. If you don't plan on using the extra NIC, I wouldn't bother.

I do not really use my extra LAN port on my A7N8X Deluxe anyways. As a matter of fact, what exactly would you use both for? Could you explain a it to me a little bit? I may just get the Deluxe board anyways. What is a few more dollars when you are already spending a small fortune!

AK

[spyder003]

It's nice if you ever want to setup a small LAN between two computers using ICS. Or it can be used so you can connect to two separate LAN's.

Originally Posted by Acid-Klutch What is a few more dollars when you are already spending a small fortune!

Exactly. If you're spending that much money on a motherboard, I would think you'll be keeping it for a while. You never know when you might need those extra SATA connections. You can't hardly buy a good 4 port controller card for the price difference of the deluxe model.

Edit- Kinda funny... We both upgraded from the A7N8X-DLX to the (possibly) A8N-SLI Deluxe

[mjkovis]

Originally Posted by spyder003 We both upgraded from the A7N8X-DLX to the (possibly) A8N-SLI Deluxe

What kind of RAM did you use with your system? I have been checking around for the past 20 minutes or so and I think I am going with Corsair now. Corsair's website recommends this RAM as the most popular and this RAM for best performance.

Like I mentioned above, I dont plan on overclocking at all. Would rather leave that to the pro's.

AK

[spyder003]

I'm using this . It's the same stuff I had in my A7N8X-DLX, I just transferred it over.

I'd go with the Corsair Value RAM that you're looking at. That's a great price for 1GB. To me, that XMS isn't worth $110 extra just for lower latencies (2 vs 2.5).

Edit - One more thing in case you were wondering... You do NOT need a 24 pin PSU for this board. It can take either a 20 or 24 pin. If you use a 20 pin, it has an extra connection on the board for a 4 pin plug. Kind of a cloudy subject on this board, I wasn't sure until I saw it for myself.

[mjkovis]

Originally Posted by spyder003 I'd go with the Corsair Value RAM that you're looking at. That's a great price for 1GB. To me, that XMS isn't worth $110 extra just for lower latencies (2 vs 2.5).

That is what I figured. I could save the money and use it to save up for that second 6600 GT!!! LOL, yeah right... I will get the Value RAM for sure.

Originally Posted by spyder003 One more thing in case you were wondering... You do NOT need a 24 pin PSU for this board. It can take either a 20 or 24 pin. If you use a 20 pin, it has an extra connection on the board for a 4 pin plug. Kind of a cloudy subject on this board, I wasn't sure until I saw it for myself.

Ok, this just about lost me now... The PSU I have chosen is still fine then right? Doesnt matter what power cable I use and if I use a 20 connector I have an extra 4 pin plug. What could I use the 4 pin plug for though?

AK

[timbit]

no, if you have a 20 pin psu, then you need to use the 4 pin. if you have a 24 pin psu, then you can just plug it in. either way, you are good to go.

EDIT: Linky take a look at the second picture of the mobo. there is the main power connector. it is 24 pins. there is also a 4 pin power connector by the cpu. so, if you have a 20 pin, plug that into the main power connector, and plug the 4 pin into the 4 pin connector. 24 pin power supplies don't have a 4 pin power connector (that's why they are 24 instead of 20), so if you had one of those, you would just not use the extra connector on the board.

[spyder003]

Yeah, your PSU is fine. You use the main 20 pin ATX connector, and then there is an extra connection for this plug (see attachment).

[mjkovis]

Oooh ok, I get it now. Thank you again... That really had me confused until both of you cleared that up. So does it matter what 20-pins I use in the main power connector? Just wondering for future reference. I believe the PSU I am getting has a 24-pin connector anyways and I know it comes with the 4-pin connector as well for sure.

AK

[spyder003]

I don't know, I honestly didn't look at the pin out that closely. Look at the second picture in timbit's link. If you're looking at it from that angle, I used the 20 pins to the right. Not sure if it works both ways. That's probably something I should have read first, lol.

[mjkovis]

Well, it will be something I can look into when I get the motherboard and check the manual about it. I take it your system is working properly so you might have guessed right, or it can work either way.

AK

Edit: Another question... I like MSI's software package they bundle with the card and I like their solid product, but does anyone have any other suggestions on a different manufacturer for a 6600 GT PCI-E video card?

[spyder003]

eVGA

[timbit]

or xfx.... i like that xfx has dual dvi on a lot of their cards -- in my dreams, i have two nice sized lcd's hooked up to something like that. i have not, however, actually used any of their cards, so take with pinch of salt. it's just that one feature is really cool to me.

evga is definitely also good. asus's stuff is probably good quality as well.

[mjkovis]

Took a look at both and will take a look around at more PCI-E 6600 GT cards. I think I a still a bit parcial to the MSI card. That software bundle is too hard to pass up!

AK

[mjkovis]

Originally Posted by timbit however, the cpu comes with a good heatsink/fan already. if you aren't planning on overclocking (i wouldn't bother) and you don't mind a little noise, then you can stick with that.

Are you meaning just the 3200+ processor or all the Socket 939 processors have a good heatsink?? I was doing my orders and may want to step up and get the 3500+ since I have been saving so much money on this build.

Also, if I go ahead and get 2 video cards to run in SLI, 6600 GT's, do they have to be from the same manufacturer. I am thinking so. I want to get them from MSI, but I dont really need both bundles of software. It really isnt that big of a deal. I was also looking at the ASUS , Chaintech and eVGA 6600 GT cards. Opinions are wanted here, but no arguments please...

AK

[timbit]

oem cpu's do not come with a heatsink fan combo, but the retail ones do.
oem cpu
retail cpu
as you can see, the retail one is about $8 more, has the pretty box, and says "retail" in the description. that's how you know.

as for the video card. if i was buying it, i would get them both from the same manufacturer. i think when the whole sli thing started, nvidia was talking about making a certification program that would allow you to buy cards from any "certified" vendor, and they would work together. but i don't know if it actually happened. so, in my opinion, better to be safe than sorry.

[mjkovis]

timbit... I should have stated RETAIL processors when I asked about the heatsinks. I know OEM do not come with heatsinks and the RETAIL processors do. I was just making sure that the 3500+ RETAIL heatsink would be ok, if I bought it. Otherwise I was going to get another heatsink. Probably one from Arctic Cooling that i saw was really nice. Thank you for clearing that up and posting links. I am sure it will help someone down the line.

I figured that both video cards needed to be from the same manufacturer and that wasnt a big deal. Just wondering if there was a small possibility. SLI is almost like dual channel RAM I take it... Also, I took a look at the A8N Deluxe's website and noticed MSI is recommended for running SLI with the 6600 GT.

AK

[TwoRails]

One thing about PIB (Retail) versus OEM is the warrantee. With OEM, you get 30 days, with the PIB, you get a 3 year warrantee. That's why I switched from OEM to PIBs years ago. Also, I figure if they'll warrantee it for that long, the HS/fan combo should be designed pretty good.

[mjkovis]

Originally Posted by TwoRails Also, I figure if they'll warrantee it for that long, the HS/fan combo should be designed pretty good.

That is a good analyzation. I would hope and think so too. I dont want to spend all of this money and have to get another heatsink like I did with my XP system. I dont want to spend anymore than I have to is all.

AK

[colecifer]

i would definently get both of your 6600Gt's from the same manufactuer. I'm not sure if it matters but if you have problems i would see tech suppourt simply saying "Its not our card causing the problem, it must be the other one." Then you are stuck not using SLI.

[timbit]

one thing to think about... the 3500+ comes in two different cores -- winchester and newcastle. the newcastle core 3500+ will run warmer than either a 3200 or 3000 not only because of it's higher clockspeed, but also it is on the older 130nm core...

if you get the retail one i linked to in my previous post, it is a winchester core. but if you take a look at the oem i linked to, you'll notice that it is a newcastle core, 130nm. so just make sure, wherever you are buying from, that you get the winchester core version.

[mjkovis]

Originally Posted by timbit so just make sure, wherever you are buying from, that you get the winchester core version.

I will be choosing the Winnie (as some call it) or the Winchester core if I get a 3500+. I did a little bit of research to find the differences with the 2 different cores and came to find all the information that you pointed out. The Winchester core is 90nm and supposed to run about 5C cooler than the Newcastle. For the OC'ers, the Winchester is also supposed to be very overclockable because it is 'unlocked' multiplier.

AK

[mjkovis]

Ok, figured I would post what I ordered for my new AMD 64 build...

Motherboard:
- ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe nForce 4 Socket 939
Processor:
- AMD 64 3500+ Winchester Socket 939
Heatsink:
- Arctic Cooling Freezer 64
RAM (Memory):
- Corsair PC3200 2x512MB ValueRAM
Video Card(s):
- 2x MSI GeForce 6600 GT PCI-E
Hard Drive(s):
- WD 74GB Raptor
- WD 80GB 7200 SATA
Power Supply:
- Enermax 535w EG565P-VE FMA (SLI Ready)
DVD/Floppy Drives:
- Plextor 716SA DVD Burner (Beige w/black bezel)
- Sony 16x DVD-ROM (Black)
- Sony 3.5" Floppy (Black)
Operating System:
- Windows XP Pro w/SP2

There she is... I am pretty happy with it so far. Took a while to finally pull the trigger. Oh, and please dont worry I didnt forget anything, cause I have the rest of what I need at home!!! Although, I am still deciding whether to use the onboard audio on this motherboard or put my SB Audigy Gamer in this system... Dont know how good the onboard audio is on the A8N motherboard, does anyone have a comparison?

I cant wait for it to get here. It is going to be quite a work in progress.

AK

[TwoRails]

Looks good! Makes me jealous!