Gaming 19" LCD ??

[TJohn]

Anyone have experience with this brand or this monitor? http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...179-014&DEPA=1
Seems pretty quick??

TJ

[David M]

Did you read the dead pixel warning from Newegg? Seems like it may be a problem if its listed that prominently.

[Marke522]

It's got 5 starts after 96 votes, everyone seems to really enjoy it. That response time of 8ms seems to be even lower than Viewsonic.

There was a Samsung that had a $100 dollars off somewhere, saw it a few days ago, I don't know it's still on sale though.

[TJohn]

Seems like newegg has that dead pixel policy for all LCD's??

[netnamakan]

Most etailers have a 8 pixel policy. However if you really want to avoid getting any dead pixels ncix.com has a new dead pixel protection system, so you dont have to worry about it.

About that monitor, I recall seeing a review on it recently, and it did very well. I'll post the link if I can dig it up

namakan

[Neuropathe]

who wouldn't want a new monitor for 8 dead pixels...

[RJ]

The Hyundai L90D+ is an excellent performer when it comes to gaming. An 8ms TN panel is the fastest so far, you won't get any faster TFT right now.
It also has an excellent contrast. It's unusually high for a TN, you won't find much TNs with 700:1 @ 300 cd/m².
The viewing angle of 150/135 is what I consider to be minimum. There are better ones out there, but 150/135 is pretty good already, and should be sufficient for most people (my TFT has 150/120, and IMHO it's a good viewing angle. However, as tastes are different, you should see for yourself if it's ok for you).
And it has the DVI port, which is the appropriate TFT connection.

Only weakness of that panel, as with all TN's, is the 16.2 million colors, but unless you are a professional graphics worker or have the desire for color accuracy of one, it's nothing you have to worry about.

RJ

[Marke522]

Only 16.2 million colors? Man, looks like I'll be picking out a different monitor. Seriously, how many colors can the human eye recognize? Would anyone really notice the difference? It's like with the hertz, the eye can only see 60, but monitors are made to have like 150.

[TJohn]

I think hertz is a bigger issue than the amount of colors especially when your up in the 16.2 mil area. Most people can notice the flicker of a lower hertz than the difference in colors. IMO and from what I've read.

TJ

[RJ]

Seriously, how many colors can the human eye recognize? Would anyone really notice the difference?

Professional graphic workers say they can notice the difference, so I guess there are people out there that need the 16.7 million colors. But all others out there won't see the difference. You might notice the dithering, though.

I think hertz is a bigger issue than the amount of colors especially when your up in the 16.2 mil area. Most people can notice the flicker of a lower hertz than the difference in colors. IMO and from what I've read.

Nope. It's not an issue at all. TFTs don't flicker at all regardless of refresh rate. And btw, all TFTs have similar refresh rates, from 60 Hz up to something in the 70 Hz range.

RJ

[TJohn]

That's very interesting, and the reason I love this place! Learning new stuff

So what about a CRT @ 60 hz displaying someting higher than 1024x768? This is weird but sometimes when I'm eating will doing computer work and I'm chewing something crunchy, every time I crunch the screen goes wacko for that instant. Maybe it's just in my head, or maybe I'm just a mental case LOL

Are there any other 19 LCD's out there that compare to the one above? My main concerns are response time (for gaming) and price (for wallet)

[TJohn]

In reply to my own post about "crunch flicker"... I'm on my laptop now and eating some granola while looking at the screen... NO wacky flickering! Guess that answers my question

TJ

[David M]

I certainly see flickering from a CRT at 60 Hz but never from a LCD at 60Hz.

[Neuropathe]

well have anyone seen a picture or video when someone plays on a lcd and crt. the difference is that when video'd the video records black bar lines always flashing downwards in crt monitors, your eye doesn't see this. however the lcd never does this it is very good on the eyes and the more and more time goes by the lcd will replace crt.

[Jaggannath]

The reason you don't see flicker on an LCD and you do on a CRT, as I understand it, is because of the different way the screen produces the image. I have a mate who can see screen flicker on a CRT that I can't, he keeps walking into my room and changing the setting, I don't think he's realised I keep changing it back for a laugh to see him frown and try resist the urge to change my settings before he gives in

[RJ]

So what about a CRT @ 60 hz displaying someting higher than 1024x768?

Well, then you will see the flickering. Therefore, when getting a CRT, you should look for one with a good refresh rate for the resolution you desire.

The reason you don't see flicker on an LCD and you do on a CRT, as I understand it, is because of the different way the screen produces the image.

Yep, that's right. On a CRT, the electron beam hits the screen surface (phosphor layer), illuminating a pixel. The phosphor has a persistence, so the pixel will slowly fade out after the beam has moved on, so its remain visible for a few milliseconds (about 2 to 4ms). After that, it's gone, so the picture is never completely visibly on the screen.
However, our eyes aren't that fast, so we see a whole picture, but we notice the fade-outs and illuminating process as flickering.

On the TFT, the pixel consists of an LC that lets light pass or not (or something in between). And that LC keeps its state until changed. Therefore, you always have the entire screen visible, with the same brightness all the time. No flicker.

To be exact, even a TFT can flicker. The reason is the AC driven background light (actually it flickers all the time, just so fast that we don't notice it at all). When you see a TFT flicker, it's a sign of the background light going south, and it's time to replace it.

I have a mate who can see screen flicker on a CRT that I can't, he keeps walking into my room and changing the setting, I don't think he's realised I keep changing it back for a laugh to see him frown and try resist the urge to change my settings before he gives in

I guess he is used to TFTs already. That's when you can really notice flickering, as you are not used to it anymore.
It reminds me with the DVI/VGA picture. Whenever I am before a VGA only screen I just have to play with the settings. The blurriness drives me to that. . . even though I know it can't get better I can't resist trying. . .

RJ

[Marke522]

This is weird but sometimes when I'm eating will doing computer work and I'm chewing something crunchy, every time I crunch the screen goes wacko for that instant.

I've noticed that myself, and it happens all over the place, not just infront of CRT's. Look at the time on the microwave next time you are chewing Doritos' or maybe the VCR clock. Any alarm clock would do it also. I've seen it happen on the television, but it's not as noticable. I have to choose my snacks at times when watching certain shows, or just wait for the commercials becuase it can get real annoying watching Alias or Star Trek with the waves after every crunch.

If you have a vibrating chair or massager, put in on your neck while you're at the computer or watching television. Everything will wiggle. Kinda funny, but it makes you sick after a few minutes.

[netnamakan]

Here
is the review tomshardware did

namakan

[TJohn]

Originally Posted by netnamakan Here is the review tomshardware did namakan

Thanks! Good read. But I got one bad vibe from that. They said for 19" LCD's at least that you must play games in the native resolution of the monitor. If I had to play Doom3 @ 1280x1024 I'd be in serious trouble Or am I reading to much into that?

TJ

[TJohn]

Originally Posted by Marke522 I've noticed that myself, and it happens all over the place, not just infront of CRT's. Look at the time on the microwave next time you are chewing Doritos' or maybe the VCR clock. Any alarm clock would do it also. I've seen it happen on the television, but it's not as noticable. I have to choose my snacks at times when watching certain shows, or just wait for the commercials becuase it can get real annoying watching Alias or Star Trek with the waves after every crunch. If you have a vibrating chair or massager, put in on your neck while you're at the computer or watching television. Everything will wiggle. Kinda funny, but it makes you sick after a few minutes.

I think maybe we have some strange of jaw / eye coordination deficit syndrome LOL... there must be a prescription drug for that

TJ

[netnamakan]

The dithering diffinatly takes away from the picture, however I dont think its that big of a deal. What CPU/GFX are you running?

namakan

[TJohn]

P4 3.06 / 6600gt 128 Mb

[netnamakan]

Really? I have a p4 2.8ghz 1024mb pc3200 and a 6600gt as well, and I run the game high/medium settings at 1280x1024.

Maybe someone who has really seen the dithering in action can enlighten us

namakan

[Jaggannath]

Originally Posted by RJ I guess he is used to TFTs already. That's when you can really notice flickering, as you are not used to it anymore. It reminds me with the DVI/VGA picture. Whenever I am before a VGA only screen I just have to play with the settings. The blurriness drives me to that. . . even though I know it can't get better I can't resist trying. . .

Nah, he's never had a TFT (he can't afford it )... he's just always been able to see flicker at certain frequencies that I only notice around about 60Hz

[FLo_oZX^]

i think i have a link to a 17" that is like $209 one sec let me find it

[TJohn]

Originally Posted by netnamakan Really? I have a p4 2.8ghz 1024mb pc3200 and a 6600gt as well, and I run the game high/medium settings at 1280x1024. Maybe someone who has really seen the dithering in action can enlighten us namakan

Sorry, actually I just bought the 6600GT I played Doom3 on my old TI4200 128 MB. I had to play it @ 1024x768 and med settings. 1280x1024 is rather high though for the 6600GT don't you think (for most new games)

[Jaggannath]

Damn you Namakan, now I want to get the L90D+... I really should be saving though, just bought a new laptop.
And $209 Australian or US dollars though Flo?? And I can assure you, he can't even afford that. He just bought a new car.

[FLo_oZX^]

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...001-171&DEPA=0

there i found the link

[TJohn]

WOW! That's cheap, and a worthy display indeed. I so what a 19" though. Is there any real world difference in performance between 8ms and 12ms displays???????

[RJ]

They said for 19" LCD's at least that you must play games in the native resolution of the monitor. If I had to play Doom3 @ 1280x1024 I'd be in serious trouble Or am I reading to much into that?

Well, only at native resolution you get the sharpest picture on a TFT. Therefore you should run everything at native res. That is also your max. res, so you can't go higher.
That applies to any TFT, not only the 19" models.

The dithering diffinatly takes away from the picture, however I dont think its that big of a deal.

Maybe someone who has really seen the dithering in action can enlighten us

You're right, it's not a big deal. In games, you won't even notice it. If you wanna see it, open paint and fill it with a color that is created using dithering and watch it full screen. You will notice some noise, which is the dithering. I found it to be easiest visible with dark grey colors. So, usually you won't see it.

Is there any real world difference in performance between 8ms and 12ms displays???????

No. But the lack of the DVI: yes. If you go from CRT to TFT, you won't notice it, as TFT with VGA is sharper than CRT, anyway, but only when you use DVI, you can get the best picture out of it.
If you're used to a TFT with DVI, the VGA picture will appear blurry to you. I know a friend with a Samsung TFT with VGA only, and the difference is noticeable.
I would not drop the DVI unless good ones with DVI are really out of your budget.

RJ