Pulling my hair out

[mazz72]

Hi all. I've seen similar problems addressed, but there were some questions I had that I haven't seen asked/answered (or I just missed them).

I've finished building my first system using the following:
Zalman 400w ps
Intel P4, 2.40A
Kingston 512MB DDR400, PC3200
ASRock P4V88 m/b
GE force FX 5200 Plus

Here's the problem, in a nutshell...nothing happens!

Everything is hooked up properly as far as I can tell. I've double, triple, and quadruple-checked all connections. I'm pretty sure jumpers are al in the right spot. I power up, though, and nothing happens.

There is one thing, though. On the front of the case, there is a display which shows time and temperature, and when I push the button to reset the display, the numbers pop up for about 3 secs, and then fade out again. If I keep the button pressed, they stay up until I release it. This tells me there is some power getting to the system, but perhaps just not enough to power anything else up. Disc drives won't open or anything, either. So I'm guessing it's a problem with the power supply?

(maybe? anyone? beuller?)

I see Zalman is listed in the stickied thread in this forum as a "good" supply, so maybe I just got a shotty one. Now, I have a couple other power supplies I can switch it with to see if that's the problem, but I have a question. The two extras I have are no-namers. One I had in an old comp with a PIII (It's a Delta, and is labeled as 124w, I didn't even know they made them that small!), and the other came with my new case, and is an Okia 500w (I've never heard of Okia or Delta supplies). I've read that the weight of a supply can give an idea of the quality, and the Okia one, though it's 500w, feels like it woudn't even make a decent paperweight.

My question is this...Would it even be worth it to switch my Zalman with one of these seemingly crappy supplies to see what happens? or could they do more harm than good with a P4 system? Or is my problem something other than the power supply? Would it be better for me to get a power supply tester and see if the Zalman is working properly? At least I could then rule that out as the problem. I don't think it's the m/b, because it's brand new and I know it's installed properly (stand-offs keeping it from touching the case, etc), and I'm praying it's not the processor, because I really don't want to have to buy a new one (assuming that if it's faulty, and it's because of something I did, I won't be able to exchange it).

Sorry for the novel. Helluva first post, though, eh?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot, folks.

Matt

[Techdec42]

Well on LCDs built into the case they have batteries just for the display the battery looks like a watch battery.

I hope this helps some

[kram 2.0]

Welcome to PC Mech forums

Seems like either a faulty component or that despite your best attempts, you have missed a connection. Be sure that you are getting adequate power from the wall power socket and that you have the orange switch on the power supply set accordingly (115 in North America). But as a first measure of troubleshooting, try HAL's Troubleshooting Guide where it will require you will remove everything including the motherboard to work.

By the way, thank you for looking around the forums prior to posting...especially on the power supply. That is a very critical part of a build.

kram

[mazz72]

Originally Posted by kram8806 Be sure that you are getting adequate power from the wall power socket and that you have the orange switch on the power supply set accordingly (115 in North America).

You know, I thought this was strange. This power supply doesn't have that switch on it. I've seen it on others, but not this one. The only things on the back are the main switch, the plug socket, the fan, and a sticker that says "FULL RANGE".

Any idea why that would be?

And I will try the "outside the case" hookup, but I was understanding that as a way to make sure the motherboard was attached to the case properly (not touching the case anywhere) which I don't think is the problem. I will try it anyway, though. I'll try anything at this point.

Thanks for the response, and the welcome.

[kram 2.0]

X-Bit labs have seemed to have done a review on your PSU which shows that the PSU itself is little to blame as it itself is made from a high quality manufacturer that is branded Zalman. Although I am not entirely sure, you should be fine with the PSU without having to set the orange switch that is otherwise present in a PSU. Give HAL's guide a try and see what you come up with.

kram

[mazz72]

Cool, thanks. I'll give HAL's guide a try...tomorrow. heh. Eyes getting heavy.

I'll try that out tomorrow after work, and check back in here with an update.

Thanks again for the help.

[Sysopo]

Matt, (how about my first post?

Congrats on finding a good setup. .. once it works...
I use 3, P4v88 Systems currently. Prescott - 3.0gh 1MB L2/800Fsb...
I am planning on a few more 3.0's using the p4v88 in near future also.
Awesome Board For $47.00 @ Newegg.
3.0's run cool enough, 3.2 over heats.

I only use Nvidia... 'coming from a programmer'
I use the very stable FX5500 , 256mb, Agp8x of course.
"Never needed to overclock them yet" Everything runs Tip Top, Blazing Fast Graphics. No Crashes & No Conflicts with SQL or server software or Linux even. Nor any game has problems with FX5500 256mb. or XP PRO...Sp2.
Highest Settings A+++++ on 3.0gh anyways.
FX5500 for 70 bucks is pretty good deal also.
So , To The Drawing Board.

Did you buy your p4v88 Brand New?
(Did it come with Red Sata Cables & IDE Cables in Box already?
& a Metal pc case backing plate?? ALSO CD & Manual?

*** How much did you pay? And from where did you buy it?
That will tell me 2 things .
1. Is it Used.
2. Is It Retail.
2a. I thought only Newegg and EB sold them.

This problem sounds like you have a bad setting either on the board or in your bios. "The mainboard should have came preset if retail.
So shouldn't be Mainboard jumpers.

Your wires for the power button and reset button could cause problems if they are wrong.

The RESET Wire you dont and shouldnt use nor need ( Tie it back )(Tuck it)
(Pressing RESET button Could TOAST your Processor or Mainboard)
So Leave RESET Unhooked ..

You should only need 2 wires Plugged In.

Power Switch - "Power SW"
&
Hard Drive Activity LED - "HDD LED"

(( IMPORTANT ))
The words on the black plastic ends Need to be facing outwards.

Check in your P4v88 Manual For Placements.
But if you can follow my chart below here you go.
(There are 4 pins on top row & 5 Pins on bottom row.)

Here is chart of the pins . (Asterik = Open pins)
( Top xx = Power SW " Words Face Ram )
(Bottom xx = HDD LED " Words Face Away From Ram)

**xx
xx***

So, If they are both OK, and you removed or have RESET Removed.
And only have HDD LED & Power Switch Hooked Up. A++++ !!!
It could be the problem, Worth Checking ....


*** POWER SUPPLY ***
Do Not Use Any Old PS.. (tisk tisk) ZAP!
Use a P4 Approved 350+ Watt. ATX 20 Pin Power Supply.
Which should also have a 12 Volt additional 4 Pin Wire.

Did you insert both power wires into mainboard?
12 Volt insert is near RAM Corner.
ATXPS 20 pin is next to Audio.

Both are needed. Maybe could cause this problem if one loose..
"Assuming this isnt the problem i will continue."

*** VIDEO CARD ***

As long as you can see the boot up, your video card should be seated properly. But go ahead and check to make sure its not crooked in AGP Slot.

Your bios might say VGA as primary Video.
thats ok. But you can and should make it say AGP, then save and exit bios, only making that 1 change.

Your video card is plug N play... No drivers needed at first.
Windows XP will install basic drivers.
Then you goto Nvidia.com and download most recent. of course.
As long as Bios says AGP, or you can see the VIDEO on screen.
It's not the card , if seated properly.


*** BIOS ***
Your p4v88 should have came with 1.6 bios.
You will not need the 1.7 bios until you upgrade CPU to 3.2 or higher.
So, DO NOT FLASH TO 1.7 !
It's only a pain in the tail for nothing unless you need it for a 3.2+ that has stepping -code- problems.

Everything in your bios should be set already..
plug-n-play and tweaked after XP is installed if you desire.

Just make sure Video is on AGP..
Dont change other settings in BIOS.
Specially if your not sure what they do.
You can DEFAULT Them back to normal anytime then REBOOT so it auto finds them again. .. If needed too..

BIOS is good place to check CPU temp, but you should be ok with your processor on temp.. "Its deff. Not a temp issue''
If in doubt, Just leave the side of PC case off or give it more air..
But 45 celcius to 55° celcius is way ok. ...

*** RAM ***
Your Ram is good, I use the same Kingston, 512mb Chips of Pc3200/400
I use DUAL '''blue ram slots'''
1 gig in each machine, 512mb in each blue slot... 2 per machine of course.
Dual has to be same Brand-type& size. & its best to use Dual...

Make sure your ram lists during bios post boot. "should see it say how much"
If it passes the check, you know its not the ram.
BUT... You could check the bios and make sure the LAT/CAS is on AUTO.
pc3200/400 might show as 333mh , in bios....
That's ok And is simply saying that its underclocked currently because nothing is running. When XP runs, it will be @ 400.
The Clocking for that ram is probably 3-3-3 , but select 'Auto'..
and dont let, 333mh and 3-3-3 cas time throw u off. hehe.
CAS of 3-3-3 would be WIDE OPEN... And AUTO usually is best for voltage.
Just leave it on AUTO.. or check your ram Model number for CAS time , but AUTO is perfect. "saves from damaging it" lol.

MAKE SURE RAM IS SEATED ALL THE WAY.. Should be if passes Post Check.

*** Hard Drive ***

I only use 80 gig, WD800JB .. 8mb Cache. 'all machines'

p4v88 WILL take a brand new drive,
As Master, With NO JUMPER on hard drive = Master.

Making sure you are using a Updated 80wire. 'pc133 IDE Cable''
Make sure its plugged into Master IDE#1 Slot on Mainboard.

Once hard drive is hooked up,
You should have the RED Power wire Closest to The RED single wire on IDE Cable.. They should both be closest to eachother.
But. You should see a Notch on the harddrive and should be able to plug the IDE Cable in one way only & power. So these should be ok.

Make sure you have NO Jumper on harddrive pins.
If requires jumper for master. Make sure its correct with manual...
but try without a jumper and see if PC will stay on thru install and forever.

My p4v88's will take a new HDD set as master with jumper, or without.
If only 1 harddrive on system, Leave the jumper off....

*** Front Panel Temp or Fan or both LED ***

You have a LED Front Panel Temp or Fan Indicator. .
I would need more detail on how it's hooked up in your case.

But.. UNHOOK IT, if you can. And see if thats the problem.
The P4v88 Does however love these types of accesories.
But not until you have XP & Updates.
(WMI Controllers and Other Performance Monitor built into XP will take over the drivers.. Depending how yours is.... It could be Battery or onboard or jumper set or bridged or fan controlled, or Driver or just simple bios lol.
Either or, It should wait until XP is installed and updated before adding extras or case mods.

*** CD ROM ***
CD Rom or Burner.
Should be set as MASTER.
With it's very own Pc133 ,80 wire cable going to IDE 2, on mainboard.
2nd CD ROM or burner, should be set as Slave. and slaved off this same CD IDE#2. Ide Cable.

DO NOT run cd rom slaved off Hard Drive master Cable.
CD Rom belongs to IDE2 on p4v88.. IDE1 could be CDROM's also.
If you ran Sata harddrive(s).
But , While Ide1 = HDD IDE2 must = Cdrom.

It's best to run your best Burner as Master on Ide2.
Then just Slave normal dvd player or cd rom or 2nd cheaper burner from same Ide2, of course, Makes sense¿ heh..

But always remember.

The p4v88 is a 800FSB mainboard.
It like's 800mh front side bus processors.
That just might be the problem here.

BUT!

I seen p4v88 take little as Generic 1.3 celeron's you can find for 10 bucks. LMAO.. Talk about an overclock test.. lol. P4v88 bios you can amp up the voltage on things. And make the Celeron 1100mh processor clock out @ 2.2 gh.. lol. @ 78 celcius and melting that chip thats next to CPU. GETS HOT as heck omg.. lol. touch and burn finger in 1 nano second lol.

Just dont mess with the bios voltage. For no worries.

Bios AUTO is best.
Dont touch anything with power on. Ground self to case, touch other metal first to discharge before touching case to discharge.

power off with power cable out. 5 minutes. then power it back on.
And see if will take WIN XP CD .

Go into bios and Set CD ROM as primary boot. then save , exit bios. PC will reboot, and hopefully read CD rom, ( may not be problem at all here)

Once XP begins to install. It should cure the problems after first Pre XP install Boot. So try to get that baby thru XP install.

---------------------
MAIN QUESTIONS:

Where did you get the board from? how much $?
State or prov?

Also.

Is hard drive brand new? Which model #?
Is ram brand new? Which model #? 2 same model # sticks ran as Dual BLUE Slots. rite?

Is video card brand new? Which model #?

Is Power supply brand new? how many Watt? Do you have both power wires plugged into mainboard? (should or no power at all ....i think)

Which version of windows XP? Home or Pro? Does the CD say Sp1 or sp2?
and again. In your own words without reading your main post to this forum.

Please explain to me 1 more time what happens when you turn on PC, step by step. "with WIN XP cd in CD Drive"
With No jumper on master hard drive.
With CD Rom Drive on IDE2 as master.
With No Extras Connected.

For first New Install of a System.
Only needed:

1 CD Rom
1 Hard Drive
1 Floppy
2 Sticks - Same Model # & Size Ram - Ran in Blue Dual Slots.

And of course the basics.
Just no extras of course, Not even sound card until XP updated.
But you wont be in need of a sound card because p4v88 has awesome audio. ..So Far..

Also, Can you run the Motherboard CD ? It might parition the drive first, I cant remember. But make sure to run Motherboard CD & See which drivers it will fetch. (if any for pre XP install)

Hope this helps anyone in need. Specially Matt. Good Luck!

The Fine Print
SORRY FOR ANY TYPOS OR RAMBLING ON LIKE A NOVEL POST WHORE SYSOPO IS. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CONTACT SYSOPO @ PROGRAMMERSYSOPO@YAHOO.COM FOR ALL YOUR PROGRAMMING NEEDS! TY .

[mazz72]

Now, that right there is a LOT of information at once. :lol

Unfortunately (or fortunately), a good portion of it doesn't apply to me yet, because I can't even get the damn thing to turn on. I haven't gotten as far as trying to install XP or anything. I can't even open the DVD drive.

Anyway, to answer your questions:
* The mainboard was $47 from newegg, retail (ide cables, disc, manual, etc)
* I only have one stick of RAM in right now. Was going to get another soon to utilize the dual channel, but I didn't think that was necessary at first. The system should still work with one RAM stick, right?
* The video card is used, but that wouldn't cause the system to not start up at all, would it?
* Power Supply is brand new 400W (Zalman), and yes, both connectors are plugged in.
* I haven't even tried putting in XP yet. The system doesn't even start up at all. No power whatsoever. I'm doing it with just m/b, CPU, psu, one stick of RAM.
* Power switch and HDD LED are connected properly (just double-checked)

I'm thinking it's the power supply, but we'll see. I'm going to connect everything outside of the case like HAL suggested.

Here's a stupid question (or maybe it's not stupid)...When screwing in the motherboard to the case, is it bad to use a screwdriver with a magnetic tip?? I've been very careful not to let the screwdriver tip actually touch the motherboard, but could just having the magnetic tip so close to the board cause problems???

[cuog]

This may help and only take a few minutes but first get a volt meter, if you don't have one then stop reading now,

disconect the powersupply from all computer components and turn it on so that the fan inside it turns(if it must be connected to the motherboard to turn on then do that) now put the ends of the vold meter in the black and yellow wires going to the plugs for something like a HD or optical drive.

you should get 12V from that.

also with you setup the way it is you may want to make sure that the fan in the psu does turn on and spin if it doesn't it may be time to call up your manufacturer for a new PSU since im assuming its still under warranty

With magnetic screwdrivers i am 99% sure that they are only problems with HDs and i use them all the time to take my computer appart weekly to clean it

[mazz72]

how do i know if the supply has to be connected to the m/b or not? should i keep it connected to the board just in case?

so if i just plug the supply into the wall socket, connected to nothing else but the motherboard, and flip the switch on the back, the fan should start up, correct?

[mazz72]

OK. I just plugged my power supply in, connected only to the motherboard.
No fan.
I then tried 2 other power supplies, one of which I know for a fact works, connected to the motherboard.
No fans. At this point I think it must be the motherboard.
I then tried my new power supply again, only not connected to anything. Just the supply itself. Plugged it in, switched it on.
No fans.

So now what?

[mazz72]

holy **** holy **** holy ****!!!

ok. i just did HAL's suggestion and hooked everything up outside of the case...and it worked! cpu fan started spinning up a storm, and all kinds of nifty things came up on the monitor.

this is my first build, and i have to say, there is no feeling like putting together your first system, and actually getting it to work. as soon as i touched the power button pins with the screwdriver, and i heard the cpu fan start whirring...i swear i stopped breathing for a few seconds. what an amazing feeling.

then of course, the next feeling to strike me. it's still outside of the case! i can't for the life of me figure out how i had the m/b attached to the case incorrectly to make it not work. i had standoff's in all the right places, with the paper washers between each screw and the board. what was i doing wrong?

also, one question. although everything else seemed to be working, it didn't look or sound like the fan on the power supply was spinning. i think i remember reading somewhere, that sometimes the fan on the ps won't spin for a while after starting up. something to do with the kind of supply? is this true, or should i be worried?

maybe i'll let it run a little longer to see what happens. is there a certain amount of time that i shouldn't run the system for without it being in a case. i dont want to burn out the cpu now after coming this far.

thanks for all the help guys!

edit: nevermind, guys. i just checked again and the ps fan is spinning. it's just so quiet. wow. thanks again for all the help guys. now to figure out how to remount it properly.

[kram 2.0]

HAL's guide is tried, tested, and proven - congrats on your success .

kram

[sataraid0]

I gotta say this is the best question and answer posting i have ever seen on here.

From the last post i do not believe u need the paper washers, think they junk and would not use them.

Hope this helps and only my humble opinion.....Sterling

[mazz72]

Thanks so much everyone.

My final verdict...

Front power switch. After everything is installed back in the case, the screwdriver still starts it up, but that's all that starts it up. I tried plugging in the power switch in every different direction and configuration and nothing.

I'll deal with that problem tomorrow. I'm just glad to know that that's all it is!

Thanks again everyone. This place rocks and I have a feeling I'll definitely be spending more time here.

[spyder003]

Originally Posted by mazz72 Thanks so much everyone. My final verdict... Front power switch. After everything is installed back in the case, the screwdriver still starts it up, but that's all that starts it up. I tried plugging in the power switch in every different direction and configuration and nothing. I'll deal with that problem tomorrow. I'm just glad to know that that's all it is! Thanks again everyone. This place rocks and I have a feeling I'll definitely be spending more time here.

Could just be a bad power switch. I saw GLC talk about using the reset switch a while back. So try using the reset switch in place of the power switch as a temp. If it works, you've found your prob.

[cuog]

Glad to here that your problems have been fixed and that you will be a continued member of this very helpful community(yes I do need a life)

[mazz72]

Originally Posted by spyder003 Could just be a bad power switch. I saw GLC talk about using the reset switch a while back. So try using the reset switch in place of the power switch as a temp. If it works, you've found your prob.

Yeah, I tried plugging the reset switch into the power switch connector, and that didn't do anything. I'm going to have to replace the power switch. Any ideas on where I would get something like that? And has anyone here had to replace one before? It's definitely not something I've had any experience with, and I'm nervous about it. It'll be a learning experience, of course, but part of me wants to just go buy a new case. lol

[cuog]

how old is the case? if its new that should be covered under warranty

[mazz72]

Originally Posted by cuog how old is the case? if its new that should be covered under warranty

used. mistake on my part, i know.

[WalterK]

Glad you got it running....

Personally, I do at least a partial build outside of the case every single time. I like to know that the basic components all work before I add the additional potential problem of a short somewhere.

I built a system a coupla weeks ago, and it was running fine. However, due to a problematical fit inside of the case, I re-mounted the motherboard. Although the computer wasn't giving me any problems at the time, I was shocked to find a screw floating around in there!

[mazz72]

I'm just going to buy a new switch. I found one for just a few bucks.

I'm also going to pull out the LED display. I don't really like the way it looks anyway, and I can't figure out for the life of me how to hook it up. I'll probably just get one of those LED fan controllers with extra USB ports that fits in a drive bay. Are those things really any good, or do they just look good?

[Sysopo]

Matt,

I didn't use paper spacers. They should be ok to use, but they arent needed if your using the correct mounting holes.

First Screw in Brass Fittings to case. Where mother board Mount Solder rings are. Then carefully place mainboard into case and verify correct Brass fitting line up with correct soldered holes in MB. Then just screw in the screws loose untill all screws seated, then quarter turn or hand tight them, ( just like you would with a car engine valve cover.

As long as its tightend to mount holes, you wont need paper ,but it should work the same either way i would imagin.. None of my machines have Paper spacers. BUT all my machines are using the correct mounting holes.

I would go buy a brand new PC case instead of replacing a plastic mounted power button that might break off during replacment.

U could have a duct taped switch lol.

I got all my boards from newegg. Never had a problem..

You could simply take your motherboard and power supply and video card into a local PC shop.
They can test to make sure your video card is 1.5 volt, and not 3 volt which will ruin the mother board.
Also, they can see if your motherboard is messed up, So you can hurry and send it to ASROCK for replacement.

And also they can test power supply to see if it has short..

Im thinking your PC case is old, or your video card is 3 volts, throwing some errors.

I didnt check voltage on yer video card.. But i believe you said its a 5200 or something, Which would be 1.5 volts.. So it shouldnt be your video card.

Its the power button, as you said..
Then get a new pc case for 40 bucks that comes with a 350 watt PS or higher. Then just put the zalman 400Watt into the case and save 350 watt for rainy day. or get a pc case for 30 bucks that doesnt have PS in it. that is a P4 Ready case.

Good luck some more.
Sysopo.

p.S One stick of ram should be ran from DDR2 black slot.
But with this board, you should be able to run it from DDR1 blue slot also.

And also. You must use same Brand,Size,Chiptype, Model Number Ram.
And you can run 4 sticks total . (i might have said 3 in last post)
4 sticks of the same exact ram, filling all 4 slots Would enable DUAL channel. Because this board supports 4 sticks ran DUAL if all 4 same sticks.

If 2 sticks, use blue. if 3, wont be dual at all. always start with DDR1, it says in tiny letters next to ram slots . If pc causes problems with ram in blue slot, Try to swap it to black DDR2 slot.. It should find it either or i think.

Magnetic screwdrivers are bad if you accidently bump something, But only the screws are ok.

Keep screw driver away from hard drive or chips.

((I would have pc shop test mainboard and case and power supply , bring it in with parts in it, Should only cost like 10 bucks for bench test.
( i never waste my own time on testing things i cant get to work, I bring to shop and tap foot)


Good luck x2, Sysopo