Good Flat panel Monitor???

[jet_rider]

I have not really done any research on tft's and lcd's can some one fill me in on what makes one better than the other. And What brands are worth purchasing. My father wants me find a good one for him. Any help would be appreciated.

[RJ]

Sure, I can explain:

When choosing a TFT (you mentioned TFT and LCD separately. Well, both are LCDs, but today's flatscreens are all TFT, which only means that it's an improved LCD. Each LC is controlled by a Transistor (TFT = Thin Film Transistor)), you've to watch for the following:

1. size

First of all: What size should the monitor have ? The important thing here is that TFTs, unlike CRTs, use their full screen size, e.g. a 15" displays 15", whereas a 15" CRT only displays about 13,8".
Therefore a TFT that has the same (or similar) viewing area as a CRT always has a lower size.
For example:
15"/15,1" TFT = very similar to 17" CRT
17" TFT = about 19" CRT
18" TFT = 19" CRT

I have a 15,1" TFT and it's noticeable larger than a 15" CRT (which I had before), but you don't notice the difference (or notice only a small one) to a 17" CRT.

2. response time

The response time indicates the time in ms that a single pixel needs to change completely from black to white and vise versa. In max. the response time the pixel got its new color. This is very important for games, etc. which need a fast picture refresh.
Mine has a response time of max. 50ms. That means that the pixel can change 20 times in a second from black to white and vise versa. Of course, light color changes are done faster, so you won't get 20fps for all the pixels in all the time. I can play games very well with it, and today's TFT's mostly have a response time of 40 and less (there are some with a response time of 25ms).

3. pixel errors

This happens during the manufacturing process: A pixel becomes defective. Therefore look at the flatscreen of your interest to see how many pixel defects it has.
But one thing I've to say here: Although it claims to be normal that a 15" TFT can have up to 3 or 4 pixel defects, good flatscreens have no more than 1 defective subpixel. Subpixel means, either the red, green or blue one, so the whole pixel can display some colors, but some not.
Don't take a 15" with more than 1 defective subpixel. 2 of my friends also have TFTs and neither of them has more than 1 subpixel.
For 18" I'd say 2 def. subpixel, but actually I only have seen the 15" ones.

4. wieving angle

Without special techniques you'd have to watch directly to the screen to see something. Fortunately all flatscreens today have special techniques which improve wide viewing. My TFT has 160° horizontally and 130° vertically.
Actually in this particular case you have to take a look on the flatscreen of your interest and see if you like it.

5. DVI

CRTs need analogue signals to display the picture. Therefore the graphics card have an analog-digital-converter.
TFTs however need digital data to display the picture. Therefore they also have a converter to convert analog to digital.
Well, of course this makes not much sense. Therefore some (well, many, but not most) TFTs also have the so-called DVI interface. With DVI the digital signal won't be converted and the pic quality will be the best. However, you'll need a graphics card with DVI to use it. But the TFT's I know have both, VGA and DVI, so you can use it with your actual graphics card and later jump on DVI when you want to change the graphics card.
My TFT has both, VGA and DVI.

6. Resolution

My 15" has a max. res. of 1024x768, and the other ones too. There are newer flatscreens that allow a higher res, up to 1400x1050 for a 15". But I only have seen this on laptops, not as separate TFTs yet. Might be interesting for you, depends if you need res. above 1024x768 or not.


You asked for brand names ? Good ones are for example Samsung, Philips, Scott and Belinea. There are other good ones, too, but I don't remember them all.
My TFT is the Philips Brilliance 150P. A very good TFT, I can't complain about it. Two of my friends have NEC MultySync LCD 1525M and Natcomp @screenX15, both 15", and both are content with them.

Okay, if I didn't forget anything, this would be all information you have to know. So look around and you'll find the flatscreen of your dreams

RJ

[jet_rider]

ok some of the units I am seeing are showing .297 mm is this related to dpi? What would be a resonable dpi if so?

[RJ]

Hello,

that means the pixel size (well, actually it means the distance between two pixel's center points, but after all it's equal to the pixel size). 0.297mm is the standard for 15" TFT.
The horizontal size of a 15" TFT is about 30,4cm. So 304mm/0.297mm = 1023.5. Well, that are the 1024 pixels horizontally (with 768 pixels vertically).

17" TFT: 1280x1024. Horizontal size = 338mm, so 338mm/1280 = 0.264mm (std. for 17").
Std. pixel size 18,1": 0.28mm.

You see, this number (plus the size of the TFT) gives you the information about the max. resolution of the TFT (std. 15": 1024x768, std: 17"/18": 1280x1024), and about resolution I told about in point 6.
Actually I would only take a look at the resolution, not the pixel size, because you can imagine more about '17" TFT with a max res of 1280x1024' than about '17" TFT with pixel size 0.264mm'.

The standard resolutions are:
14"/15"/15,1": 1024x768
17"/18"/18,1": 1280x1024

As I mentioned, there are newer ones with higer res, but I only have seen them on laptops yet (and only 15"):
15": 1400x1050

RJ

[jet_rider]

Thanks for the info.

[Frey Grimrod]

Am I correct in assuming that these monitors do not release nearly asmuch radiation as the older more standard monitors do? If so I may have a reason to save up and get one if they only didnt cost double the cost of my system.

[DrZaius]

Frey Grimrod,

Yes, LCDs produce a lot less radiation (or electromagnetic emissions)than regular CRT monitors. I know that some can argue this and claim that it has little to no effect on one's health, but I think the extra investment is worth it in the long run. I have a Samsung 15" TFT LCD and it's great.

[jet_rider]

Which model, if you don't mind my asking.

[DrZaius]

jet_rider,

Not at all, I have theSyncMaster 570v TFT. I was going to get the 570s but the 570v (value) was about $100 cheaper and had basically the same features as the 570s, minus optional casing color and ability to pivot horizontally. I higly recommend it for a good basic LCD monitor. Hope that helps.

[Floppyman]

Thanks Dr. Zauis, I had been looking at the 570s and 570v too and didn't know the difference, plus I couldn't find a picture of the 570v. Thanks for the link.

[DrZaius]

No problem. And by pivot horizontally, I mean you can not do this with the 570v unlike the 570s:



You can tilt it forward and backward, just in case anyone didn't know what I meant.

[jet_rider]

Thanks for all the help everyone. RJ, where can I find information about pixel error rates? No one seems to be advertising that information. Thanks again.

[Frey Grimrod]

Drag Dr.Zaius I mean 100$ extra so you can tilt your head sideways and kill your neck why not pay 4 it! eheheh

[RJ]

In case of pixel errors you have to take a look at that particular panel you want to buy. It happens during the manufacturing process and can differ even among the same version.
I've seen the natcomp screenX14 (14") with 3 defective subpixel, and now there's another natcomp screenX14 with only 1 defective subpixel.

This is not model specific, and on the manufacturer's website all you'll get would be the max. pixel errors possible, which is way too much comparing to what the good ones have (1 def. subpixel).
Actually I never have seen a TFT with more than 3 def. subpixels yet, so normally you'll get a good one, the only thing is that if you take one with some defective pixels the manufacturer will say it's still within the limits, and therefore you should take a look at it.

RJ

[jet_rider]

Darn, I wanted to purchease this off the net for the savings. I guess I may have to buy this locally. Thanks again

[Floppyman]

2. response time The response time indicates the time in ms that a single pixel needs to change completely from black to white and vise versa. In max. the response time the pixel got its new color. This is very important for games, etc. which need a fast picture refresh. Mine has a response time of max. 50ms. That means that the pixel can change 20 times in a second from black to white and vise versa. Of course, light color changes are done faster, so you won't get 20fps for all the pixels in all the time. I can play games very well with it, and today's TFT's mostly have a response time of 40 and less (there are some with a response time of 25ms).

Hi Dr. Zauis,

Can you tell me what the response time of your Samsung 570v is? Was interested in that one, so just wondering. Thanks!

[DrZaius]

Floppyman,

I just checked the manual and it does not say. I'll look through the rest of the documentation to see if it mentions anything.

[Confused]

If you don't mind, I would like to jump in here with another question as it appears that the Dr. and RJ have this thing pretty much covered. I have been interested in a flat panel, mainly for the space they save and heat output. Was at a computer show couple months ago and looked at a flat panel next to a CRT showing same image. CRT was sharper. Person maning the booth said this would always be the case, and then gave some reason that while it sounded plausable, I was left with the distinct impression that he was trying to blow smoke up my a**. Anyway it has slowed down my quest for one. Is this true or did he just have a bad panel. Also these bad pixels you talk about. Almost ever store has a display out, and gives you a boxed one to take home. Is this something to look for when viewing the screen? Should power be off or on?

Chas

[jet_rider]

I would take it that you should either have them unbox it and view it in the store if at all possible. If not make sure you know the return policy of the store you are dealing with and be prepared to return the unit if need be. I think they would set it up and let you view it before you leave the store if you asked. They would me or they would not get my business.

[glc]

There is only one way I have seen where a LCD is actually "sharper" than a CRT - and that is if you have a DVI video card with a digital input on the LCD - and you run it at native resolution. Otherwise, a good CRT will be noticeably sharper.

[RJ]

I have to disagree here.
At native resolution and correct settings the TFT is always sharper than a CRT. Only at the other resolutions a CRT will be sharper.

The thing with the store:
It can be that they connected the TFT wrong or didn't set it up correctly or whatever.
Here in our Saturn store all the TFTs are wrong connected, and they give a poor picture, either too dark, flickering, unsharp, even at the native resolution. This happens because all 20 TFTs are connected via a switch or whatever to a single PC, and this would cause the problem I think.
Anyway when Helper got his TFT it also had a bad picture, dark, unsharp, and he asked if this is always so. Well, the vendor connected the TFT to a single PC and then the TFT showed its real quality, sharper than any CRT and with high-quality picture. Seeing this Helper didn't hesitate anymore and took it immediately.

The experience I've made: Over the past year I have my TFT it outperformed every CRT in sharpness (in 1024x768 of course), and my other friend's TFT (Helper with his NEC MultiSync and Alper with the natcomp) confirmed that.

As for the DVI: In about 2 weeks I'll get my DVI cable and then I'll see.

To Confused: Thay guy that said a CRT would always be sharper than a TFT, what reasons did he give you ? I'm quite interested in what he told you.

And to Floppyman: I also didn't find any information about the response time of the 570V, but the 570P, 570B and 570S have all 50ms.

RJ

[Confused]

RJ I don't remember what he said. As I said in my post, I remember thinking this could be right but I was a bit skeptical. I plan on another PC before end of year and becuse of space may go with flat panel. Exactaly what do I look for concerning this pixel thing, or is it something readily apparent.
Thanks
Chas

[DrZaius]

Confused,

From what I have read, to test for dead pixels you should have a white background on the screen and check for any black or discolored pixels. The best way is to set your Windows background to white and just look closely. Hope that helps.