Old problem, lookin for some answers..

[andrewy3k]

I came to this forum this past summer about a random freezing problem.. basically problem summed up is "***SOMETIMES***" when inserting a CD/DVD or w/e into my DVD-RW drive my computer will freeze randomly and will require a restart.. weird thing about it is that animations from the cursor like the time glass or the MIRC logo in my tray are still showing movement animation even when the system is completely locked up.. and when this happens I always have to reboot.. when i say sometimes i mean this will happen once every 5 times i insert a peice of media into my drive.. Now i already have spent 2 months trying to fix this problem in several forums and tons of money but just coming back for some more answers if possible since i have narrowed the problem down a bit more.. its not that big of a deal for me but just want some idea if possible what is causing this and I am a person who always wants answers..

Now heres background info.. this has been happening since i built this system.. since then I have changed many parts and these parts are not the cause of this problem "FOR SURE"...

.. Motherboard - switched from a ASRock to an ASUS -
.. RAM - switched from 2 sticks of DDR 133 to ddr 400 1 stick -
.. HD - removed both of my original HD's and put 2 new ones -
.. Formatted 3 times after that - still nothing
.. PSU - I already ran through some help from a person checking all the voltage stuff to make sure it was alright.. i didnt replace it though...
.. CD BURNER/DVD-ROM - removed BOTH of them as i thought it was the cause of the problem.. replaced with a NEC dvd burner 16x


The only thing that ever popped in my head it could be is my video card since that was the only major part i didnt replace from the start... I also come to this conclusion becasue **before** i changed all these parts i also had a problem with games "RANDOMLY FREEZING" in the same way it would with my cd/dvd drives.. but then after the mobo and ram upgrade that problem stopped but the other one still remains..

_____________________________________________
:: current system specs ::
Intel 3.2 Ghz HT
1 GIG ddr 400 - generic ram with thermaltake heatspreader
GECube Ati radeon 9600 pro 256 MB
NEC Dual layer DVD burner 16x
6 fans
couple of PCI cards - ide controller - extra usb ports
some cheap floppy drive
2x HD's - western digital - 200 GB - maxtor 60 GB
______________________________________________

If i missed any important info or anythign just ask.. any responses will be appreciated..

[Panama Red]

Looking at your specs, I see 2 hard drives, a video card and 6 fans in addition to the 2 optical drives. Those devices are going to demand quite a bit of power and could be overtaxing your power supply. How do you have the power connections configured? Are the fans or opticals on the same branch as the hard drives? What brand/wattage is your psu? I would think you should be using nothing less than a 350 watt, quality power supply (regardless of the checks your friend made). I never connect anything to the hard drive power branch coming from the psu. And I would put the fans on their own branch with none but the cpu fan connected to the motherboard header.

[andrewy3k]

I have a 550W, its not a really good one but its decent i think.. not sure if its the brand name or what but it says "Lead Power" .. i think its the company name.. dunno.. it has 2 branches coming from the PSU.. each branch has 3 connectors to make a total of 6 connectors and 2 floppy connectors.. but i also have y splitters in some areas and also some fans n stuff which have double sided connectors so u can plug another device into it... to save explanations I made a diagram in MS Paint to show the layout of the power cables and everything.. What i said in the original post though, what i checked was the voltage for each line.. the 12v/5v ect.. thats what i meant by checking the PSU.. it was someone from toms hardware forums i think who helped me check that..

anyways here..

[Panama Red]

Nice art work, andrew. Easy to understand. Here's just an idea to see if it is power related. Disconnect everything but the hard drive and the DVD drive that is involved from that branch. That means disconnect the floppy, hdd cooler and the other optical drive. Now try to duplicate the problem. If you can't reproduce the fault, add one of the other items to the branch and try again to reproduce the fault. Continue adding items until you can make it fail.

Ideally, it would be nice if the 2 hdd's were on their own branch with the floppy. Then the opticals and fans would be on the other branch. This is just a guess. Hope it helps.

[andrewy3k]

k thanks ill test that out now.. ill try to get back ASAP with a response.. if I dont maybe it worked

[glc]

That's a pretty small number of connectors for an alleged 550w power supply - I'd be leery of that PSU. My 300W Nspire has more connectors than that.

Install Asus Probe, monitor the voltages for both tolerance and stability - what do they look like?

[andrewy3k]

Thats what I did with some person at toms hardware like I mentioned .. I monitored each voltage over a 2 minute span and measured the highes and lows.. yea its quite possible its lower then 550w but it should still be able to handle what I got .. I bought 550 to be able to handle 4 optical drives 3 HD's and 6 fans so having less should be fine.. if you want i can re check the voltages for each line and give you the read ous for highes and lows oer 2 minutes.. but actually now I didnt get any freezing so let me finish my testing..

[andrewy3k]

here i made a small video for you both in windows media encoder to better give you an idea .. its like 4 minutes long but during the 4 minutes i insert 3 CD's to show if there were any spikes in the 12v line and nothing... so just see for yourself.. for now im gunna keep testing without my floppy an HD cooler see if the freezing stops permanetly.. even if it is less then 550w have less things connected could do the trick.. and if I notice that having less connected does the trick Ill just go buy an awsome PSU .. anyways check out the video..

http://ca.geocities.com/ggenov0571@rogers.com/aaa2.wmv

[glc]

Well - I do see some drops in the 12 volt rail - from 11.9 to 11.7 - this should not be too significant, but exactly what are those drops coincidental with? However, I'm a bit curious why the Vcore is bouncing back and forth between 1.44 and 1.36. If I'm not mistaken, the voltage regulator for the Vcore is on the motherboard. The general rule of thumb is a +/- 10% tolerance, but I won't use a PSU that can't keep it within +/- 5% or one where any rail wanders around a lot, this is indicative of a substandard regulation circuit.

You do know that you can read the voltages over time on a line graph with Asus Probe - I'd be interested in seeing a shot of that.

The total advertised power of a PSU is almost meaningless - it's the amount each rail can handle and its stability that makes or breaks it. I build similar systems with 340 watt Enlight power supplies and haven't had a power-induced issue yet. I even built a couple servers with eight hard drives in each one and used 420 watt Enlights, no issues. I'm not saying your power supply is causing your problem, but to me, a no name unit is always suspect.

I think I posted an attachment in a thread in here somewhere a shot of the line graphs of my voltages when I had an Asus board. If I find it, I'll come back and post a link. I'd make a new one but I retired the board last month and have an Intel board now - Intel Active Monitor doesn't have a graphing facility, just digital readouts and a speedometer type display - and it doesn't monitor the 12 volt rail.

[rcvalencia9]

I would also recommend if you run out of ideas. Buy a new PSU if its not really a money issue.

[andrewy3k]

Originally Posted by glc but exactly what are those drops coincidental with?

Im not 100% sure but that might have been when I was inserting DVD's/CD's into my drive while i was recording..

Originally Posted by glc You do know that you can read the voltages over time on a line graph with Asus Probe - I'd be interested in seeing a shot of that.

I will get you a shot of that ASAP ..

I havent exp any freezing since I removed the floppy and HD cooler.. until any freezing happens I wont buy a PSU but if freezing occurs I might look into a really good quality PSU.. but like I said this is not really a big problem a couple of freezes once and a while I dont mind but hey if its easy to fix sure why not..

anyone know some quality PSU's for good prices for future knowlege?.. Thanks..

[Panama Red]

One of the best "bangs for the buck":

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817153006

[andrewy3k]

http://ca.geocities.com/ggenov0571@rogers.com/aaa3.wmv

heres approx 2 min video of the graph in ASUS probe.. hope it helps..

[andrewy3k]

thanks panama.. too bad I cant buy from newegg living in Canada and all.. :/

[andrewy3k]

well first freeze since the floppy drive and hd cooler removal .. i can say it didnt happen for quite some time .. 1/10 times i would say before i started thios thread and now 1/20 times it freezes but w/e.. looks like im gunna have to start looking at some good PSU's huh?

[Panama Red]

Yup, looks like. You've pretty well eliminated everything else. Time for a quality upgrade in the psu dept.

[andrewy3k]

I hope i can find that same thermaltake PSU or one like it somewhere else or on ebay since newegg dosent like us canadians.. we shouldnt be considered international shipping.. atleast I shouldn't I am right at the border .. newegg would probably get a huge amount of sales from canada if they started shipping here... :S

[glc]

That graph doesn't really look THAT bad.

For you Canadians:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...re=THERMALTAKE

[andrewy3k]

thanks..

question is 420 enough for what I have?

reminder..

6 fans
2 Hd's
1 optical drive (soon 2)
floppy

is it enough for this plus maybe couple other items maybe another optical drive soon and maybe a third HD .. I have a IDE controller

[glc]

I built 2 servers for a guy - they each have EIGHT hard drives and 4 case fans, and I used 420 watt Enlights, no issues. For what you have, even a quality 350 watt is sufficient - note the emphasis on "quality". Fans don't draw as much power as you may think. Why so many fans? It's high end video cards that guzzle power.

[andrewy3k]

I have so many fans because cooling your system make it last longer.. as well eventually I will overclock some stuff..