Anyone recommend an Apple laptop?

[tomster2300]

Hey,

I'm starting college in two weeks and would like to know which laptop you guys recommend getting. My parents agree I'll need one eventually, but I won't be making the purchase until I pay my first couple of car payments. They won't help me financially until then. But while I wait I'd like to look at some options so I can have a clear idea of what to get when the time comes.

What do you think about an Apple laptop? They're called I-Books, correct? I've heard good things about them from my Apple friends, but I've never owned any kind of Apple computer myself.

My friend recently purchased an entry level Dell I9300 notebook off dell.com which includes all the basic parts except he chose a 6800 Go over the standard integrated graphics. After purchase he also bought an extra gig bringing his memory up to 1280 mb. He paid $1,000 for the laptop (excluding the gig); he used an online Dell coupon which knocked off $600 (I didn't know these things were out there). Do you guys think this was a good buy?

I'm going to be living at home and already have a decent gaming desktop, so my notebook doesn't particularly have to be gaming savy (though if I can find one fairly cheaply then I won't argue ). I also need a wifi card -- which I think is standard these days, isn't it -- since the majority of the campus is wireless. Besides that I'd just like a quality laptop which will last throughout college and beyond.

Why do I need a laptop if I'm living at home? I'm going to be on campus from 8 - 4 and will have an hour between each class. Plus there's 32,000 students on campus and I think it'll just be easier to pull out my own laptop rather than fight somebody else for a school computer. Also I will be living in a dorm next year so this will definately be for the future as well.

Thanks to all in advance.

Tom

[Iniamyen]

The apple laptops are awesome -- very sexy, reliable, and powerful if you get the top of the line ones. I only have two problems with them: They are too expensive, and I can't stand using any mac OS for more than about 2 seconds. If you don't mind macs in general, and can afford one, They are very cool. Personally, however, I would never buy one.

Let me just add, I have been forced to use *nice* macs for about a year's worth of on-the-job tasks, I have given them fair time and tried to get used to them, but I CANNOT STAND THEM STILL. So, I am not just a PC-fanboy saying this. I have real experience using macs.

[tomster2300]

Well I just thought about something. The school uses Word on their computers, so if I were to type something on an Apple laptop and wanted to open it at school, or vice versa, it wouldn't work would it? Is Apple's word processing program compatible with Word?

What do you think about the Dells? I probably would have a budget of under $1,000; most likely less than more.

[freakitchen]

In my experience, you're right not to use campus computers. Where I am, the computer rooms are always full, not to mention buggy and slow!

i-books are great machines, powerful, and sleek-looking with a thin profile making them easy to carry around. I believe they all have wi-fi inbuilt (my friend's certainly does)

Downsides, you might find it annoying if you run a windows desktop for file compatibility if you're transferring between the two often. Also with their 'look at me' looks, it's always going to attract more attention from potential thieves than a bog standard laptop.

I'm not that knowlegable when it comes to Dell laptops, I believe GLC here is very clued up Dell-wise and should be able to help you on that score.

Oh yeah, and talking of RAM upgrades, my friend upgraded his i-book RAM to a Gig, just as easy done as in a Dell.

Freakitchen

[Prew]

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder- I personally think the plastic I-Books look toyish and cheap.

Also, keep in mind that if you buy an Apple you'll need to buy all new software and probably peripherals.

The Apple MS Word is compatible with PC MS Word.

[David M]

All the scientists I work with who are Mac fans, also have to own PC's because 90% of the rest of world also uses PC's. Regardless of what the Apple claims, there are always sofware, file and other incompatibilities which necessitates the owning of a PC for them. Why own 2 computers in order to be compatible with the rest of the world when all you have to do is go buy a Windows machine.

Also, compare software prices. The Mac software is more expensive for the same thing. Don't forget to compare peripheral prices as well.

I don't see the point in owning a Macintosh unless appearing fashionable and outside the mainstream is important to you.

[tomster2300]

Alright, well it looks like the Apple is out of the picture then. I just thought it might be a worthy machine that I had never considered before, but now that we've all thought about it it seems like it's not worth the hassle. Let's focus on Dell -- what do you guys think about Dell laptops, and what do you think about the deal my friend got with his? Do you recommend another brand?

Let's forget about Apple since it's obviously not worth the time and money to make it compatible with the mainstream.

Thanks for all the help so far.

[Mac Medic]

Originally Posted by tomster2300 Let's forget about Apple since it's obviously not worth the time and money to make it compatible with the mainstream. Thanks for all the help so far.

You can believe this if you want to but just because someone say it's so doesn't mean it is. I switched to Mac's completely to get away from the very incompatibilities and software problems David is talking about, not to mention the security nightmares. If there is something that can be done on a PC that cannot be done on a Mac I have yet to find it, unless David has a specific example in mind, I doubt it though as he seems to feel the same way about any non windows OS. My mac's live very happily in a windows world and connect to windows networks/domains easier, quicker and with less problems than most windows machines I have used recently. As far a documents go you shouldn't have any problems. The text edit app built into OS X reads and writes .doc, as does Apple Works that comes on the consumer Macs (ibook, imac), then there is M$ Office 2004 for Mac not to mention open office. File compatibility these days is not an issue, no thanks to M$ though. On the other hand Dell make some fine "cheap" machines, cheap being the key factor. We still live in a you get what you pay for world.

As for software being more expensive, well you can research that yourself, but I doubt you'd need much more than comes on the ibook already, and if you do you'll find free versions of most types of software, either native cocoa apps or X-11 unix apps.

And fashionable and outside the mainstream shouldn't be the deciding factor. Useability, security and whether the thing does what you want it to do should be, it just so happens that Macs look good doing it.

I'm not saying you should go out and buy a Mac, you'll probably be happier with windows if thats what you're used to, but I would say go to the Apple store and try one, they'll show you how to use it, let you plug in hardware, cameras etc.. to test the built in software and they'll do it all for free, only cost you a couple of hours of your time.

[tomster2300]

Originally Posted by Mac Medic You can believe this if you want to but just because someone say it's so doesn't mean it is. I switched to Mac's completely to get away from the very incompatibilities and software problems David is talking about, not to mention the security nightmares. If there is something that can be done on a PC that cannot be done on a Mac I have yet to find it, unless David has a specific example in mind, I doubt it though as he seems to feel the same way about any non windows OS. My mac's live very happily in a windows world and connect to windows networks/domains easier, quicker and with less problems than most windows machines I have used recently. As far a documents go you shouldn't have any problems. The text edit app built into OS X reads and writes .doc, as does Apple Works that comes on the consumer Macs (ibook, imac), then there is M$ Office 2004 for Mac not to mention open office. File compatibility these days is not an issue, no thanks to M$ though. On the other hand Dell make some fine "cheap" machines, cheap being the key factor. We still live in a you get what you pay for world. As for software being more expensive, well you can research that yourself, but I doubt you'd need much more than comes on the ibook already, and if you do you'll find free versions of most types of software, either native cocoa apps or X-11 unix apps.

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping somebody who owned an Apple would reply so I can ask specific questions. Is the current high end ibook as powerful as today's competitive laptops? I've always had the idea that Apple was big on video editing and production - they're much better work horses than the average Windows based pc. If this is so, would they not be meant for gaming? If it's a better laptop yet just isn't strong in the graphical hardware department, then the ibook would still very much be a consideration to me. I actually like their streamlined design - I don't know, I've just never heard a specific problem with one besides the incompatibility of software and the general dislike of them from non Apple users. I'm a Windows user myself, but I'm willing to give Apple a shot if it's what I'm looking for. If you could indulge on the specifics of the new ibook and how it compares to a Windows based platform it would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[Mac Medic]

The $999 ibook has a 1.33ghz G4 processor, by all accounts it's comparable to a 2-2.5ghz Intel Pentium M, but cross-platform benchmarks can be shady. My personal laptop is a 1gz G4 and it does everything I throw at it, there are certainly faster PC notebooks available but not for $999 with comparable hardware. The ibook has an ATI radeon 9500 video card with only 32mb of vram but thats plenty for anything other than gaming. Having said that non-active X games work well on the Mac, you can actually install the PC versions of some games on the mac and they'll run fine. Not great on an ibook but useable. I use a PC version of wolfenstein and it runs ok on my 1ghz powerbook.

They all have 802.11g and bluetooth built in, the $999 12"ibook has a cdrw/DVD drive.

Software and file compatibility just isn't and issue anymore. There are apps for Mac that will do anything you want. Tell me a task you need to perform and i'll show you the software. People say you'll have to buy all new software, well technically you'll have to do that on a PC anyway unless you're planning on taking all the software off of your old PC. For photo editing and movie editing you cannot touch the platform, not necessarily the hardware but the software. Built in you'll get iphoto and imovie, both very capable programs, the ibook also comes with graphic converter built in, a very good photoshop replacement, then if you get into graphics seriously you could get final cut express, motion and photoshop and turn out pro work quickly and easily with minimal lock-ups and data loss. And anyone that want's to argue that point should show me their feature film that got trashed twice on a Wintel/Premier setup and still wanted to stick with Windows!

Your best bet is to go and try one, not just clicking around but performing specific tasks for you, they'll let you make a movie at the Apple store, show you how to edit and burn it in imovie and send you home with a nice DVD all within an hour.

So to try and answer you question about power, well, there will always be a faster unit around the corner but in my opinion power is about more than pure speed, it's about a fast machine that does what you want rather than what it wants, is simple and fast to use and be productive, comes with all the software you need and does it all securely, reliably and intuitively. Thats a Mac.

The Apple stores have free nightly seminars for many topics, including switching to the mac. Go and sit through a couple and you'll see that the compatibility issues raised by people are just fallacies. And you'll get to see it in person rather than taking my word for it.

[David M]

I have seen first hand the incompatibility issues at work. There is LOTS of software that is written for Windows machines that is simply not available for the Macintosh. Just go look at any Comp USA, Fry's, Best Buy or any computer store which sells software and see for yourself just how little software there is for the Mac in comparison to the PC.

If the scientists I work with had no compatibility issues with Macs then they would not need the Windows machines that ALL of them own.

BTW Mac Medic...taking me out of context about other operating systems other than Windows or Apple is plain rude and has no relevance to this thread. I know your a big Mac fan but keeping a little impartiality in this this thread would be helpful to others.

[tomster2300]

Originally Posted by David M I have seen first hand the compatibility issues at work. If the scientists I work with had no compatibility issues with Macs then they would not need PC's...which all of them own.

What kind of compatibility issues have they had? I'm trying to take both sides of this.

Mac Media thank you for the advice and especially the info on the seminars. To be honest though, I've never seen an Apple store -- I don't think they have one near me. I guess I could find out off Apple's website; I'm going to go take a look.

[David M]

Tom,
What will you be studying? Are you going into the arts or the sciences?

If its the sciences, then get the PC. There is LOTS of scientific programs that are written for PC's that are not available for the Mac. Bottom line, computers are built to run software...period. If you have to go out and buy some obscure software program, then you can bet its probably not available for the Mac. Yes, Mac has some sort of emulator than can run some PC programs, but it runs slow and is very buggy. I have been told this by a number of scientists which have tried it with their Mac. They gave up on it and use their PC laptops onboard and in their offices. Don't let someone tell you that a Macintosh can run any software. That simply is not true.

As i said, 90% of the world works on PC's...why have a machine that is not the standard for practically everything?

If your going into the arts, then a Mac i'm sure would work out fine.

[tomster2300]

I'm starting pre-journalism with a minor in political science (that minor will probably change, though the major will probably stay the same). If not an Apple then what would you guys suggest? I need a broad range of options to choose from. Any specific deals from Dell, alienware, toshiba, hp, etc.? I'd rather stay away from toshibas or hp's honestly, but if you guys say they're decent I'll give them a look.

I have an old Toshiba pentium I laptop which dad bought me years ago when his company updated computers - that thing is rock solid, and I even got it to run Win XP Pro (it only has 96 mb of ram too ). I know those old toshibas were nice, but I don't have much faith in the newer ones. I think I need something newer than that thing though, so somebody please help me out. Thanks.

[David M]

I have had two Dell laptops over the years. Both were excellent machines. Looks like a Mac would be fine since your not getting into the hard sciences. I was just expressing my personal experiences in seeing others who owned Macs.

There must be some comparisons and ratings on the internet between different brands of laptops. Perhaps its worth a Google? My gut feeling is that overall, Dell's are best just from I have read in these forums.

[Mac Medic]

Running a particular software application is NOT a compatibility issue! If someone needs software that only runs on a PC then they should get a PC but that has nothing to do with compatibility. It gets back to what I said earlier, does the thing do what you need it to do?. That should be the determining factor whether it's Mac, Unix or windows. And from "personal" experience I run Autocad 2005 (a native Windows App) in virtual PC without any of the buggyness you refer to, it is slow though but i'll live with it to avoid the inherent problems with a daily use Wintel machine.

[tomster2300]

Anyone recommend any specific laptops to get? I'm surprised nobody has mentioned a specific model yet.

[Mac Medic]

Dell 700m is a nice machine but probably more than your budget for a good hardware configuration. The 12" ibook is a nice machine too. Both are small and light, easy to carry etc...

[tomster2300]

Hey Mac, do you use a powerbook or an ibook? If not an ibook, have you ever had one?

[Mac Medic]

I have 2 powerbooks and a G5 powermac currently. I have had 3 ibooks in the past. A 700mhz, 800mhz & 900mhz, all white ibooks. Very good sturdy machines with good warranty and support. I would recommend the extended warranty with any laptop, whether Dell, HP, Apple etc...

[Mac Medic]

As a side note regarding upgradeability, my 12" 1ghz powerbook came with 256mb ram, a 2x DVD burner and a 40gig 4200 rpm HDD. It currently has 1gig ram, 8x Dual Layer DVD burner and an 80gig 5400 rpm HDD. They're a very upgradeable machine for a laptop. Same with the ibook.

[tomster2300]

Is the ibook meant for students and those not willing to pay the price of a powerbook? What're the differences?

[Mac Medic]

On chip cache, FSB speed, Memory speed, better graphics etc... But as Apple ramps the ibook line the gap closes significantly. If I was in the market right now I would get the 12"ibook for $999. It currently spanks my 12"powerbook at a fraction of the price I paid. The only drawback is that the 12"ibook does not have a DVD burner but you can add an 8xDual Layer burner for $200 from many aftermarket sellers and still come in cheaper than the 14"ibook and save the extra weight.

http://www.mcetech.com/ibg4dvdr8dl.html

[tomster2300]

What does anyone think about the entry level Inspiron 9300? I can get one with a Go 6800 for $998. That's a good deal isn't it?

[glc]

The 9300 is a pretty hefty laptop, that's a 17" widescreen. If you want best portability, look at the smaller models like the 600m (14" standard) and 700m (12" widescreen, only 4 lbs).

[neochivers]

we did over look , if u saved summore u could get a Alienware

[tomster2300]

My friend brought over his G3 ibook today and I really liked it. He had the latest OS installed (OS X Tiger, is that correct?) and I was intrigued by all its simple, yet extremely useful options. I really liked the email program which automatically connects to your desired email account and automatically downloads your emails onto your hard drive when they arrive so you can view them later whenever you like. It seems like it includes all the options which Longhorn supposedly promised. I still don't know, the ibook is just extremely small and easy to carry.

Oh one more thing. When he brought it into my room it was asleep. I opened it pretty quickly and it had automatically connected to my room's wifi -- it had never been in my house before. I thought this was extremely cool. I haven't used a portable wifi before, but on entering a new network on a Windows based system, don't you have to click and tell it to scan for a connection, then wait for it to connect? Or does it do it automatically as well? Thanks.

[Mac Medic]

Pretty much any mail program will do all that, the beauty of apple mail is that it's tied to spotlight (like the entire OS) so smart mailboxes with specific criteria are simple to set-up and use. Did you try anything else on Tiger, ie. spotlight, exposé, dashboard?

Yeah, wi-fi on the Mac "just works", none of the zeroconf issues Windows has. It sees a network and connects to it, if it requires a password it'll prompt you for it and even picks the correct type of encryption for you, WEP, WPA etc..

[tomster2300]

Originally Posted by Mac Medic Pretty much any mail program will do all that, the beauty of apple mail is that it's tied to spotlight (like the entire OS) so smart mailboxes with specific criteria are simple to set-up and use. Did you try anything else on Tiger, ie. spotlight, exposé, dashboard?

I used spotlight, forgot to mention that; it was very cool. It's very similar to the search feature in gmail where you can look for anything and your results are nearly instantaneous. I did not try the last two, what are they? I read about them on apple's website, but do not remember enough to be able to talk about them.

[Mac Medic]

Exposé is window management, handy for small screens and Dashboard is like a hidden OpenGL desktop that has small programs (widgets) running to perform different tasks then disappear when you need them to. Then there are the i apps, did u use any of those (imovie, idvd etc)