Computer power failure...mystery

[Scorehound]

I tried to find a tech problem thread but I guess I am blind...

In September I bought a new AMD Athlon 64 system. It always worked good, but last week it was acting funny and then refused to start. I unplugged it and let it cool for a few hours and tried to fire it up again and I heard a pop and saw a spark come from the bottom of the system. Nothing would run, move or beep.

I figured it was the power supply so I bought a new one (450 watt) and turned on the system and all that happens is the fans spin. No activity from the motherboard except intermediate spinning from the heat sink fan. Everything worked fine before the first power failure, so I am thinking my motherboard may have gone south. It is weird how the fans and the LED lights come on but the rest of the system lies there dead...

I will recheck my connections, but I have no idea what the problem could be.


Any thoughts?

[glc]

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=12753

[Cricket]

It popped and you saw a spark come out of it? Did you open up the case so you could see which part got fried? Pops and sparks are not good.

Cricket

[sdkfz]

You bought this from where in September?

Sounds to me like you should be reviewing your warranty time/conditions, you are still in 90 days if that is all you got as a warranty..

[Scorehound]

When I saw the spark coming from the bottom part of the system, I immediately unplugged it and pulled the case cover off. I could not see any burn marks or fried wires/componants on the motherboard, but I did smell an odor from the power supply. That is why I figured it was the power supply.

After posting last night I went back in and rechecked my wires. I started removing componants to see what would happen. When I took out the sound card the system started...sort of. My fans spun, the system began to start, but that was it. The monitor did not display anything and I could not turn the system off with the power button. The reset button does not work. I had to switch the power off on the back of the power supply. I put the sound card back in, and nothing. Just the fans spun.

I am afraid that if I screw around with it some more something else will pop. The computer is beginning to behave in the same way it was when the first sparks were seen. I am wondering if a motherboard error caused it to short out or cause a power overload of some sort within the board.

Today I am going to take everything out and put it all back together again...I don't want to have to fight with Tiger Direct for a refund or exchange on the mobo, so I hope it is something simple but I fear something catastrophic.


I bought all of my parts from Tiger Direct in Canada.

[Cricket]

From what you're describing (power and reset switches) it does sound as if the motherboard got cooked a bit.

What brand was the original power supply and what do you have in there now?

[glc]

You need to take everything out and use the procedure in my link - not just put it back together.

[Scorehound]

Originally Posted by Cricket From what you're describing (power and reset switches) it does sound as if the motherboard got cooked a bit. What brand was the original power supply and what do you have in there now?

The power supply was the original case supply. I (stupid) should have realized that most case supplies are crap and I should have bought one and substituted it for the one in the case.

I checked the power connections on the motherboard and they are secured so I am thinking the motherboard is fried... I will order a new one and phone Tiger Direct to discuss the mobo I currently have.

Until then I will do what glc suggests.

If it turns out I need a new mobo, what would be the best one for an Athlon 64? I am a big gamer and use grpahics software so I do need power.

[Scorehound]

1. Taking previous advice, I took everything out of my system and connected the motherboard, RAM and the video card. The result was the same as before. The fan on the power supply turns on, the CPU heatsink fan turns on and that is it.

2. I then took out the battery for 10 minutes and put it back in. The CPU then initialized and the system looked like it was back to normal, but no video would display on the monitor.

3. I put everything back in the case and hooked everything back up. Nothing. The fans spin, the CPU seems to initialize and the DVD-ROM drive lights up. However the drive continues to attempt to read the drive even though there is no disc in the drive. In addition, I get no video at all. The monitor light just sits there and blinks and none of my drives makes any sound at all to indicate that it is working. I DID replace the video card with another I had, but there were NO changes at all. Same response.

4. The power supply used to automatically turn on when I flipped the switch on the back, but now it does not. Now I actually can push the power button to turn on the system, where before it would not work. But I have to hold down the power button for the system to turn off.

So what I find weird is:

- The fans, power supply and the LED lights all turn on.
- The CPU seems to initialize.
- The DVD-ROM drive clicks and acts as if it is reading the drive but there is no disc in it and the light will not shut off
- System powers up by the power button but I need to hold the power button down to turn it off.
- No video from the monitor at all. Monitor just blinks.

PLUS, there is the issue of the spark I saw to end my computer's life last week before I got the new power supply. The spark was seen near the bottom of the case on the inside, which is mysterious. I could find no burn marks on the Motherboard, and none of my cards looks frayed or burnt at all.


P.S: Responding to Cricket's post, my original power supply came with my case (which came from Diablotek). It does not have a brand name on it. The NEW power supply I bought is an MGE XG Vigor 450.

[glc]

Why did you put everything back in the case when it wouldn't work on the bench? That proved you have a bad core component - motherboard, processor, ram, video card, or power supply. Putting things back in is wasted work, if it's not working on the bench, it's not going to work in the case either and you risk further component damage.

[Cricket]

Please post your complete system specs. List the parts by brand and model.

Since you replaced the power supply (although MGE isn't a very good brand) you may be looking at a bad motherboard.

When you had parts out of the case, did you leave the drives disconnected or did you connect them to the motherboard?

Cricket

[Scorehound]

I have:

AMD Athlon 64 3400
160 Gig Maxtor IDE HD
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 sound card
Sapphire Radeon 9550 256 Meg AGP 8X video card
Soyo Dragon ATX Motherboard
HP DVD R/RW Drive
And the beforementioned MGE power pupply.

My biggest concern might be my RAM. When I bought the system I was on a budget (bad idea I guess) so I kind of cheaped out on the RAM. I bought a 1024 Meg stick of PC3200 DDR-400 RAM, but it was not a brand name like Kingston, it was from some Hong Kong company.

I was looking for people with similar issues as mine, and I found someone with similar issues and he said it was a bad contact on his RAM stick...could that be the issue, and if so, how would I fix it?

Oh, and when I had everything out of the case I had nothing connected to the mobo except the video card and my RAM - everything that I was told to hook up.

[Cricket]

Oh...you got a SOYO Dragon motherboard...try this, take the motherboard out of the case and hook up just the CPU, heatsink and power supply (no video or RAM) and then try to power it up. Make sure the PC case speaker is connected if the motherboard doesn't have a built-on piezo speaker on it. Without the RAM or video you should get BIOS beeps indicating something is wrong. If you don't get a response, the motherboard might have died.

Cricket

[Scorehound]

Originally Posted by Cricket Oh...you got a SOYO Dragon motherboard...try this, take the motherboard out of the case and hook up just the CPU, heatsink and power supply (no video or RAM) and then try to power it up. Make sure the PC case speaker is connected if the motherboard doesn't have a built-on piezo speaker on it. Without the RAM or video you should get BIOS beeps indicating something is wrong. If you don't get a response, the motherboard might have died. Cricket

I did what you asked, and all that happened was the heatsink fan spun, the power supply fan spun and a little green LED on the motherboard lit up. That is it. No beeps or anything. I think it is the motherboard, because everything I've tried does nothing, and I've switched out components that have not made any change the system.

I think it could either be the Mobo or the RAM. I should replace them both.

[glc]

Use a bit of logic - you have no proof that the ram is bad - but you do have reasonable proof that the motherboard is bad. Inspect the ram carefully for burn spots, if it's clean it's probably fine.

[Scorehound]

There are no burnt spots or any physical evidence that the RAM is bad... I think I will need a new motherboard.

IN THAT CASE:

Can you recommend a system setup that will be stable, affordable and powerful?

[glc]

I would just get a new motherboard for your existing processor that's a quality brand and has an AGP slot.

[Scorehound]

Well, I already have my new Mobo picked out...

I do have one concern about my processor. It is stuck to my heatsink... Do I pry it off, because the processor is held in place by the locking pin on the motherboard. I could pull it off, but would it damage the processor in the process? yeah, I'm pathetic I know.

[blue60007]

Did you remove the heatsink with the processor attatched to it?

[Scorehound]

All is well. I was so nervous to break something but it did not take much effort to seperate the two. I had to order some more thermal compound so when I get my new motherboard I can attach it.

Any tips, please let me know.

[Scorehound]

I have been doing some research into it, and I have found a lot of cases have really crappy power supplies in them, and many people have complained of the included PSU blowing their motherboards.

I sent a letter to Tiger Direct, although I do not know what they will say. I do not think it is right for case makers to put useless, faulty PSUs in their cases, even with all the complaints about fried systems because of them.

I am fairly sure a power supply fault caused my computer woes, in fact I'm willing to bet within a reasonable doubt that is exactly what happened. At this point my only concern is the stability of my hard drive. I have a lot of sensitive material on it, and if it was knocked for a loop I'm screwed.

[glc]

Tiger Direct doesn't manufacture the cases or the power supplies. They sell what people want to buy, and people want to buy cheap cases. The time to do research is before you buy, not after. Quality costs money.

It just so happens that Soyo is no longer in the motherboard business either - I'm betting you got a really good deal on the motherboard? There's a reason.............

[Scorehound]

Originally Posted by glc Tiger Direct doesn't manufacture the cases or the power supplies. They sell what people want to buy, and people want to buy cheap cases. The time to do research is before you buy, not after. Quality costs money. It just so happens that Soyo is no longer in the motherboard business either - I'm betting you got a really good deal on the motherboard? There's a reason.............

When I bought this system, I was on a tight budget. I had just moved into a new house and needless to say I didn't have an overflowing bank account from which to buy the system. When I went searching for motherboards, I was looking at Epox and Gigabyte boards, because I had both before and they were good. But I stumbled across a motherboard/processor bundle with the Soyo board and the Athlon 64 and it would have saved me almost $100 so I decided on that deal. I had never heard of Soyo before, but when reviews from users say positive things, you tend to believe them. In any case, I think the major screwup was with the power supply that came with the case.

As for cases, Tiger Dirct has many cases ranging from $40 all the way up to and above $300. All of my previous cases I have owned were cheap cases and they worked just fine for what I needed them for. However, my previous systems did not include cheap power supplies. I know I should have bought a seperate power supply when I bought the system. But I guess you have to learn from your mistakes.

[Scorehound]

Well, the mystery has been solved.

Last night I was taking a look at my mobo very carefully and noticed some very fine white powder on the top of the mobo. Thinking at first that it might be dust I passed it off, but it was a mystery since there was no other place on the board that had this powder. Upon closer examination I noticed the bottom part of one of the resistors blown out.

So, what must have happened is either

a) The power supply shorted out and sent a power surge through my board which shorted it out causing the failure,

b) The motherboard overheated due to lack of cooling and shorted out;

Either way, it was my motherboard.

[blue60007]

I bet the el cheapo power supply killed the motherboard.

[Scorehound]

I took another closer look and could find no direct blown resistor, just a blast pattern that centred around 2 areas on my motherboard. The biggest concentration was right next to my ATX connector where my PSU plugs in, the second is a smaller blast pattern centered to the south and left of my heatsink. There is no physical damage to my processor, but time will tell when I put it on a new motherboard.

Curiously, I took the crappy PSU apart to find the source of the explosion, and saw a piece blown off and right behind the main fan a huge scorch mark. It also looks like the fuse may have blown in it as well, as it looks like it exploded inside the glass which holds it.

So, all I can gather is that the PSU shorted out and went BOOM and sent a power surge through to my ATX connector on my motherboard, which blew out a componant or two.

The mystery is the thick white powder. If that powder came from the PSU there would have been evidence inside the supply when I took it apart. But there was little powder inside the PSU and none of those resistors looked like they exploded either. Maybe some of the poweder got sucked into the PSU from the board just before the whole thing went CAPUT.

Comments?

[Scorehound]

I've spent most of the night trying to find out where the breakage is on this board, but the more I look at the powder and the pattern the more I think it might be just caked on dust from the CPU fan... The reason I think that way is because the two places where this powder resides are the only two places where any dust would collect. Every other space around the CPU is open.

Well, I did see a blue spark and hear a pop and I know my power supply went dead, so i will buy a new mobo and see what happens.

I've had PC problems before, but not like this...

[Cricket]

Hope the replacement power supply fixes your problem...if you're lucky the power supply will be the only thing that died...if you're not lucky a few other components were probably fried.

Let us know how it goes.

Cricket