AMD XP 2100+ to 3200+ Problems?!?!?!?!?

[mjkovis]

I just replaced my AMD XP 2100+ with a new AMD Barton with the 400 MHz FSB, of course. Anyways, I adjusted my CPU frequency from the default setting to 200 MHz and the multiplier was automatically enabled. Well, the computer boots up fine, it goes to the Win XP login page, I select the name I want to login to XP with and it starts to load the desktop up and then the computer just freezes. I cannot restart without pressing the reset button, and now even trying to boot into safe mode the computer locks up as well.

Motherboard: ASUS A7N8X-Deluxe 1.08 BIOS (should support 400 MHz FSB)
OS: Windows XP Pro upgraded to SP2

What is going on? I can load up with the CPU frequency at 166 MHz and the processor is then recognized as an AMD XP 2500+. Ideas please!

Thanks,

Michael

[Panama Red]

Are you running Kingston PC3200 Value Ram by chance?

[mjkovis]

Originally Posted by Panama Red Are you running Kingston PC3200 Value Ram by chance?

No I am not. I am running Corsair ValueRam 2x512MB PC3200. Still ValueRam though.... Does that make a difference?

[Panama Red]

Don't think so but I did confirm with Kingston that their 2 x 256 kit will not work with that board. I have the same setup with a 400 fsb 3000+ running some OCZ memory. BSOD's with Kingston. You might try it with one stick at a time just to check things out.

[mjkovis]

Hmmm, I have already checked on the compatiblity of this RAM with this system before I even purchased the RAM. It was approved by both ASUS and Corsair...

I am wondering though, could my heatsink not be close enough to the top of the CPU core? The four small pads at each corner of the chip are new and really thick. I am just wondering if the heatsink isnt seating properly over the chip. Could this be an overheating issue?

[Dustmann]

You might check your bios for the automatic shutdown temps. My old nf7s had a 2500/333 barton OCed to a 3200/400, and it ran pretty hot even at stock speeds. I think my default bios settings shut it down at 50*C and i dont remember it idling much lower than that! I eventually stuck a speeze falconrock cooler on it and it lowered the temps around 5-7*, but the barton chips always ran pretty hot from what I have heard and from my own experience.

Edit - I believe the meltdown temp on those chips is 90* C, and i think mine regularly kept in the high 60s to mid 70s when fully loaded (oc'ed with stock cooling). I kept the shutdown temp at either 75 or 80, dont really remember now

[mjkovis]

Idle temps within BIOS are around the lower 40's in Celsius.

PR, I just did a search on Corsairs website about my RAM compatibilty. It looks as if this RAM is no longer recommended or even compatible with the A7N8X boards anymore. Quite weird, because I remember buying this RAM especially because it would work with my board. I guess I will try to take one stick out and see if she loads up. If not I guess I am going to Newegg and look for some new memory...

[Dustmann]

mjkovis - That looks like a reasonable temperature reading. What PCB version is your motherboard, do you know by chance? I checked out the asus website, and the current bios version should be either 1009 for pcb 1.06/1.04 and 1008 for pcb 2.0 and newer.

The PCB (printed circuit board) version is printed on the mobo, and should be beside the mobo name? Do you know what I'm talking about? The bios for the pcb 2.0 and newer is NOT compatable with 1.04 or 1.06, so if you have the wrong bios installed, this may very well be your problem.

This link to the asus website might help you find it, if you don't know it already. http://support.asus.com/repair/repai...Language=en-us

[Dustmann]

Ah, bummer. One thing you might try before you spend any money, this seems to be the case in more than one thread on this forum This is stolen from Kahlil's post, but I wrote it, and I'm quoting myself

Well it may be your ram then if that's the case. Can you adjust timings on your ram from the bios? Try running the fsb at 200, and the ram at 166 and see what happens. Maybe the timings are too tight for that valueram to keep up at 200. If everything works fine at pc2700, you have found your problem, and play with raising the timings to say 3-5-5-10 or something ridiciulously high like that, and gradually bring them back down.

[Panama Red]

Originally Posted by mjkovis Idle temps within BIOS are around the lower 40's in Celsius. PR, I just did a search on Corsairs website about my RAM compatibilty. It looks as if this RAM is no longer recommended or even compatible with the A7N8X boards anymore. Quite weird, because I remember buying this RAM especially because it would work with my board. I guess I will try to take one stick out and see if she loads up. If not I guess I am going to Newegg and look for some new memory...

Not surprising. The issue with the Kingston was only when using a 400fsb cpu. Apparently the chipset doesn't like the value ram at 200 bus speed. The OCZ I'm using is the Enhanced Latency stuff with 2-2-2-5 timings.

[mjkovis]

Originally Posted by Dustmann The PCB (printed circuit board) version is printed on the mobo, and should be beside the mobo name? Do you know what I'm talking about? The bios for the pcb 2.0 and newer is NOT compatable with 1.04 or 1.06, so if you have the wrong bios installed, this may very well be your problem.

Yes, I am already aware of this, but thank you. I actually have one of the first A7N8X Deluxe boards with PCB 1.04. Right now I am running BIOS version 1008 since 1009 is still in its BETA version right now, and I found no difference in my problem by using 1009...
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PR,

I tried your suggestion on using only one stick of RAM, and I believe I have come to the conclusion that the RAM is my problem (Also, my RAM is Value Select, not ValueRAM, whoops...). First off, I tried one stick in DIMM 1 and everything seemed fine and I also reseated my heatsink on the CPU (Reapplying my Arctic Silver as well). Everything seemed to work just fine. Next I tried it both sticks back in Dual Channel to make sure it just wasnt my heatsink and the computer froze or locked up again. I then reverted to still use both sticks of RAM, but out of Dual Channel and the computer locked up, but it did take longer. Lastly, I went back to the one stick in DIMM 1 and it has locked up three times, but it takes a while to do so. Actually, after the third time I switched sticks to see if the one is bad. So far, so good.
__________________________________________________________________

Originally Posted by Panama Red Not surprising. The issue with the Kingston was only when using a 400fsb cpu. Apparently the chipset doesn't like the value ram at 200 bus speed. The OCZ I'm using is the Enhanced Latency stuff with 2-2-2-5 timings.

I am wondering if this is the same problem. As I mentioned before Corsair had this RAM on their compatibility table when I bought it last year, because it worked for my AMD XP and AMD 64 systems. I do know that my timings are a little higher than yours for the Value Select RAM.
__________________________________________________________________

Originally Posted by Dustmann Well it may be your ram then if that's the case. Can you adjust timings on your ram from the bios? Try running the fsb at 200, and the ram at 166 and see what happens. Maybe the timings are too tight for that valueram to keep up at 200. If everything works fine at pc2700, you have found your problem, and play with raising the timings to say 3-5-5-10 or something ridiciulously high like that, and gradually bring them back down.

I can adjust them within BIOS, but lets keep this as a last resort. This type of guess and check method can take a lot of time and I would rather not have to travel that route if I could just go ahead and purchase new RAM, if needed, instead of messing with the timings.
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Michael

[mjkovis]

Ok, well using one stick of RAM (either stick) was just delaying the inevitable. After about 15-20 minutes idle or working the computer still froze or locked up. Even restarting the computer does not help. I watched my task manager and ASUS probe, but did not notice anything within memory usage or temperature wise. I am running low 40's still so I take it I need new RAM. The motherboard just doesnt like the combo I have now.

Recommendations? I am thinking about OCZ or some Patriot PDP.

[Panama Red]

I proved the Kingston compatibility issue by running Memtest86+. Got tons of errors. You can download it by itself or with the Ultimate Boot Disk. The UBD is a great package of tools to have. Patriot PDP is probably cheaper than OCZ and just as good.

[mjkovis]

Originally Posted by Panama Red I proved the Kingston compatibility issue by running Memtest86+. Got tons of errors. You can download it by itself or with the Ultimate Boot Disk. The UBD is a great package of tools to have. Patriot PDP is probably cheaper than OCZ and just as good.

It has been so long since I used Memtest86+ I forget what I need to download and how to install it on a floppy! I may just download the UBCD, but I dont which to download from their either. I can already tell that this is definately a RAM problem, but it wouldnt hurt running Memtest to be sure of it.

I guess I will check PDP and OCZ's website for compatible RAM. I wanted to put Patriot in this system before, and I believe you and I had talked about that PR, dont remember for sure... Anyways, thanks. I'll keep this post up to date. Most likely I am going to have to put the old 2100+ CPU back in to keep this desktop up and running till I get the new RAM.

Thanks,

Michael

[mjkovis]

I just got done looking up my current RAM and found out that NO it does not work with nForce2 chipsets at all and does not support dual channel in some motherboards. I ordered a pair of Corsair XMS 2x512MB RAM from ZipZoomfly and it should be here early next week.

Basically, what I found out is that the RAM I ordered is specifically for nForce2 chipsets and running dual channel. I guess I am set. Currently I just put back the 2100+ chip in the computer to keep it running till I am ready with the new RAM.

Thanks for the help all,

Michael

[MaxRat]

it seem that the UTT-BH-5 is whats not compatable... I dont know if thats the ram you have but, Corsair put out alot of it and it didnt work on NF2's...

[TwoRails]

Originally Posted by mjkovis ... Motherboard: ASUS A7N8X-Deluxe 1.08 BIOS (should support 400 MHz FSB) ...

I hope I didn't miss this above, but revs 1.x of that mobo were Not sold as 400FSB mobos and don't support it. It takes rev 2.0 or higher.

[mjkovis]

Originally Posted by TwoRails revs 1.x of that mobo were Not sold as 400FSB mobos and don't support it. It takes rev 2.0 or higher.

No they did not, but updating the BIOS will then enable the 400 MHz FSB support.

[TwoRails]

As typical, Asus' site is down at the moment, so I could'nt post from an online manual (meaning newest rev) or BIOS rev, but taken from an rev 1.x manual:

Front Side Bus(FSB) = 333 / 266 / 200MHz

Rev 2.x manuals say FSB - 400...

[mjkovis]

Originally Posted by TwoRails As typical, Asus' site is down at the moment, so I could'nt post from an online manual (meaning newest rev) or BIOS rev, but taken from an rev 1.x manual: Front Side Bus(FSB) = 333 / 266 / 200MHz Rev 2.x manuals say FSB - 400...

Yes, the motherboard does come stock with a FSB of 333 MHz for board rev. below 2.x, but you CAN update the BIOS to enable the 400 MHz FSB. Therefore I have updated my BIOS for 400 MHz FSB support.

Anyways, if you go here you can select the A7N8X-Deluxe from a list of older products by ASUS. Once you select that you will be prompted to download a .ZIP file containing two .PDF files listing the overview and specifications of the A7N8X-Deluxe. In the specifications it tells you PCB Revisions 1.06 or earlier need BIOS update to enable 400 MHz FSB.

Michael

[TwoRails]

Interesting. I did a small handful of builds with the early revs of that mobo (1.0 - 1.02) and it did not have a chipset that supported a 400FSB. My further builds were with rev 2.x, which did have a supporting chipset. I didn't do any builds inbetween those revs. Looking at the BIOS release notes, and the CPU compatibility charts on Asus' site, it seems that 400FSB support started with revs 1.04 and higher. Bartons are not supported until rev 1.04, so hopefully you have at least that rev. Here's a link to the CPU compatibility chart:

http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/c...Language=en-us

I remember all the news flak about nVidia calling the nForce 2 chipset the "400" when it did Not support 400FSB. It was the nForce 2 Ultra 400 that started supporting the 400FSB.

Here's a quote from nVidia's site:

NVIDIA nForce2 Ultra 400 is the only core-logic solution available for AMD Athlon XP processor-based PCs to incorporate support for the AMD advanced 400MHz frontside bus, DDR400 memory modules and a performance-boosting, dual channel memory subsystem.

So it seems Asus started putting the Ultra 400 in there at rev 1.04 and higher, not the 2.0 like I was remembering...

PS: Asus' CPU link doesn't keep the mobo info, so you'll have to plug it in...

[mjkovis]

TR,

I have researched this thoroughly and know that my motherboard will support a 400 MHz FSB, otherwise I would have already ruled out purchasing the AMD XP 3200+ and just gone with a 2800+. My motherboard IS PCB 1.04, so I am sure I am ok.

Thanks TR,

Michael

[MaxRat]

Easiest thing to do is look at the chipset and see which one it is...then you'll know for sure...

[mjkovis]

Ok everyone... I got the new RAM today and placed it in the motherboard and then stuck the 3200+ back in and still the same problem. I guess this is telling me that it is my motherboard and maybe the mobo doesnt support the 400 MHz FSB with the BIOS update. I am going to try and get a hold of ASUS and get a little more information than I can get here.

Any other suggestions? They are more than welcome...

Thanks,

Michael

[mjkovis]

After a lot of research I found out that the motherboard rev of 1.04 (which I have) will not support the full 200/400MHz FSB that the BIOS is supposed to enable. Reason being, I am not sure, but it is possible because of the chipset since it isnt the nForce2 Ultra. Anyways, everything is working quite nicely and stable at 187MHz. The CPU is recognized as a 3200+ and I am happy with that. I still want to run a few benchmarks to make sure though.

Thanks for all the help,

Michael

[TwoRails]

Haven't been around much lately... Are you still having problems, mjkovis? I don't have much new to add except: have you reset the BIOS to factory defaults and let the mobo redectect everything? Also, if I remember right, everything, except for the FSB, is set in the BIOS, so have you also tried jumpering it back to 333? I don't have a clue to if running 400FSB on that mobo should be jumpered 333 or 200 since it originally didn't support 400...

[mjkovis]

Originally Posted by TwoRails Also, if I remember right, everything, except for the FSB, is set in the BIOS, so have you also tried jumpering it back to 333?

TR,

I completely forgot about that. I had everything running fine with the jumper set to 200 and my BIOS had the CPU frequency at 187MHz. I just switched it over to 333/266 (which is default) and it is totally fine still, so I guess it doesnt matter and maybe the BIOS updates eliminated that? Anyways, like I mentioned, totally forgot about the jumper. I may try to step up the FSB just a little more in BIOS to see what happens.

The whole deal is the rev 1.04 board has the older nForce chipset which DOES NOT fully support the 400MHz FSB, but you can get it up sometimes to 185MHz or higher in BIOS... The link below is to nForcersHQ Forum and my thread about this topic.

http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/a7n8...--vt65821.html

They shed a lot of light on this subject and I found out quite a bit here since they specialize in nForce based motherboards.

Thanks,

Michael