Cannot Install XP Pro onto an 80GB HD!!

[spookyPC]

Help!

Hi,

I have a fairly ordinary home made (by someone else!) PC:

2.4Ghz P4
512MB DDR
Nvidia Geforce 4MX
Ethernet card
Phillips DVD/CDRW Combo Drive ATA MAster
Floppy
Plextor CDRW ATA Slave
MSI Mobo
400W PSU

Originally I had a 60GB HD as a master and a 20GB HD as a slave and was running win98se on it. I then upgraded to XP (Fine) but the 60GB HD failed soon after. I then bought a new 80GB HD (Hitachi Deskstar 80GB UATA 133 - HDS728080PLAT20). This is where my troubles started. I set the BIOS to boot from the CD (more about that later!) so that I could install XP (pro SP2). The PC boots fine, runs through the blue setup screen. Lodas the drivers and then asks me what drive to install on. I chose the c: drive (80GB Hitachi) which I have already partitioned and formatted to FAT32 via a win98se floppy (I use FAT32 becuase I connect the PC to my Mac via ethernet and the MACOS can not write to NTFS). The setup then tells me that its checking my drive. After about 2 minutes it comes up with an error saying that Setup finds that my C drive is corrupted and cannot be repaired! My only option is then to restart my PC! I've now I think tried evrything in my limited knowledge!
I have set the PC up to have the 80GB as the only drive, as MASter, as 15 Logical Heads instead of 16. I have also tried setting up the PC with the 80GB as Master and the 20GB as a slave - again same issue.

There were a couple of times when I had the 80GB Master and 20Gb Slave set up where setup got past the drive checkup and looked like it was going to install XP onto the 80GB but then an error message popped up saying that setup could not create the /windows directory and therefore could not continue.

I also tried setting up with the 20GB as Master and the 80GB as Slave. Setup then gets a little further but again tells me that the C: drive (80GB) is corrupted and it can't continue!
If I set up the PC to have just the 20GB as a Master then it installs XP fine! I also put in an old 12GB and then a new 40GB as Masters (Singl drives) and again XP installed fine.
Curiously, if I set up the PC as I want it (80GB Master and 20GB Slave) and try to install win98se it installs fine onto the 80GB.
I know that it sounds like the HD is bad but I have put the 80GB into a Mac and thoroughly tested it - as well as placed it into a pIII 500 and it passed the drive tests - I even managed to install XP onto this drive in the PIII 500!
I am now tearing my hair out as the maachine clearly installed XP and ran it fine for a month on the old 60GB HD. I really don't know what else to do? Can anyone here offer me any help to try and sort this out?

BTW about the optical drive thing that I mentioned earlier:

the Plextor is the Master on this bus and the Phillips is the Slave (Definitely). The BIOS sees both drives but in the Boot sequence options the only optical drive it says I can boot from is the Plextor. here's where it gets weird. If I set the BIOS to boot from the Plextor and put a CD in the plextor and restart - nothing happens - the PC just sits there. However, If I set the BIOS to boot from the Plextor and put a CD in the Phillips and restart then the PC Boots!!

can anyone help me?

[Panama Red]

Some ideas. Only connect the one hard drive you intend to install XP on. Set the jumper to Cable Select (CS) on an 80 wire ide cable and connect it to the black connector at the end of the cable. The blue connector attaches to the mobo. Check that the hdd is correctly identified in the bios and let the bios auto detect it. Don't make any changes to the drive configuration. If XP still won't load, run the drive manufacturer's diagnostics while it's in that pc. You might also try a different 80 wire cable. XP can also be quite picky with memory. You might want to try different memory or remove one stick if you have multiple stiicks installed. Once XP is installed, you can usually reinstall the memory.

The optical problem sounds like a jumpering issue. Make sure the drive that is jumpered to Master is on the end of the cable and the one that is jumpered as Slave is on the middle connector. This is for a 40 wire ide cable. Again, if you're usingn 80 wire cable, you can jumper both to CS and they should be recognized correctly.

Also, is your XP disk a MS original or a copy? That can make a difference too. You'll only see 32Gb of the 80Gb disk when formatted to Fat32 using XP.

[glc]

Why are you setting it to 15 heads?

[spookyPC]

Hi Guys,

thanx for the replies. Now I'll try and reply in as much detail as I can:

Some ideas. Only connect the one hard drive you intend to install XP on.

This I have tried on its own with no success.

Set the jumper to Cable Select (CS) on an 80 wire ide cable and connect it to the black connector at the end of the cable. The blue connector attaches to the mobo.

Its currently connected using an 80 wire cable and connected as you suggest.

Check that the hdd is correctly identified in the bios and let the bios auto detect it. Don't make any changes to the drive configuration.

BIOS sees it fine and detects it correctly - I have made no changes to the drive configuration at all

If XP still won't load, run the drive manufacturer's diagnostics while it's in that pc.

I have run Hitachi's drive fitness software 4 times on that drive and on each occasion nothing is found wrong with the drive at all. The software I used came from here:

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm

Is this the correct software for my drive?

You might also try a different 80 wire cable.

This is my second IDE cable!

XP can also be quite picky with memory. You might want to try different memory or remove one stick if you have multiple stiicks installed. Once XP is installed, you can usually reinstall the memory.

I ran memtest86+ on the ram (just a single stick of PC2100 - I don't have any others at the moment) and after several hourss of tests the stick apparently passed all tests with no errors

The optical problem sounds like a jumpering issue. Make sure the drive that is jumpered to Master is on the end of the cable and the one that is jumpered as Slave is on the middle connector.

This is correct

This is for a 40 wire ide cable. Again, if you're usingn 80 wire cable, you can jumper both to CS and they should be recognized correctly.

I'll try an 80 wire cable on this and let you know what happens (may not be for a couple of days as I aam away till Thursday!)

Also, is your XP disk a MS original or a copy? That can make a difference too.
The disc is a copy of my original. In a fit of desperation I thought tht maybe my disc was scratched or something but when I dug out the orignal and tried with that I got the same problem. However the copy installed XP onto the 80GB HD when I put the drive into another machine and XP saw 78GB (formatted as Fat32)!

You'll only see 32Gb of the 80Gb disk when formatted to Fat32 using XP.

Originally I had XP installed on a 60GB HD in this machine. It was formatted as Fat32 and XP saw the drive as being around 57GB

Why are you setting it to 15 heads?

I have no idea! I was desperate aand it seemed like the only thing I hadn't tried yet! Its now back to 16 heads!

I'm afraid I'm still desperate!!!

[tempus]

I'd say the problem may be the motherboard. If the drive works in another machine then that leaves only the motherboard.

[spookyPC]

Hi tempus,

I thought it might be the motherboard but I have successfully installed XP on a 20GB, a 12GB and a 40GB HD in this machine. On each occasion the drive in question was freshly formatted and installed as a single drive.
I'm going to try Ghosting the 20GB currently installed in this PC onto the troublesome 80GB HD and see if it then boots from there.
failing that I am gonna take an 80GB from out of my Mac and try that one - everyone I spoke to about this says the same thing:

"It may just be one of those situations where for some inexplicable reason a single component causes problems for your PC that cannot be explained and often cannot be replicated even with a different but identical component!"

[tempus]

Originally Posted by spookyPC "It may just be one of those situations where for some inexplicable reason a single component causes problems for your PC that cannot be explained and often cannot be replicated even with a different but identical component!"

I would support that theory so have you checked the pins on the ide connector? One may have gotten bent. Also is it possible your MB needs a BIOS update to work with the larger drive? What is the board and the revision level. I may be way off base though. Have you tried to load XP using NTFS?

[spookyPC]

Hi tempus

"I would support that theory so have you checked the pins on the ide connector? One may have gotten bent. Also is it possible your MB needs a BIOS update to work with the larger drive? What is the board and the revision level. I may be way off base though. Have you tried to load XP using NTFS?"

I've checked the pins and they all seem ok (I've even looked through a magnifying glass! and but for a bt of dust it all looks ok)

The motherboard is an MSI 845E MAX and the bios is dated as 7/4/02 which is version 5.3. I have hunted around and it seems as though there are bios updates going up as far as version 6.1 (please see here: http://www.msi.com.tw/program/suppor...UID=313&kind=1)

However I am a bit confused. On a Mac if your firmware (BIOS) version is say, 5.3 and the latest is 6.1 then you just install 6.1 as it also contains all the updates from 5.3 to 6.1. Is this the same for PCS? or do i have to install 5.4, then 5.5 then 5.6 all the way up to 6.1?

Finally with regards to your last question the 20GB HD currently in the PC which has XP successfully loaded is already NTFS (as was the 12GB)

I'll post back later if I get the chance to do the BIOs updates after work. I would appreciate it if someone could just answer my bios update question in the meantime

thanx

[glc]

No need to install the intermediate bios updates.

Examine the motherboard carefully for bulging and leaky capacitors.

[tempus]

Do you have the MSI update feature for the BIOS? I looked at what the updates do and did not see anything to do with hard drives. You said you are using auto detect in the BIOS for the drive? Does it see the correct size? when you ran the fitness test did you run it in DOS atached to the MSI MB?

[spookyPC]

Hi Guys,

I must confess that I am getting more and more freaked out! A Quick recap:

After attempting lots of things I now have my PC with a single 20GB HD (NTFS) with Windows XP Installed.

What I have now done is firstly to update the BIOS (only becuase I can't think of what else to do) so I have the latest BIOS update for my PC.

Secondly I installed the 80GB (FAT32) as a slave drive and restarted the machine. The BIOS sees both drives correctly (exact size etc) in answer to one of your questions Tempus.

If I boot into windows off the 20GB then in XP the 20Gb shows up as C:, my Optical drives as D: and E: and the 80GB as F: Windows works with both drives perfectly well and everything seesm to run fine! Although I don't see why the 80GB doesn't appear as the D: drive instead of F:.

However. . .

I then booted off a win98se floppy disk (to run Ghost). Again the BIOS sees both drives correctly. However when I get to the commaand line if I type in C: it takes me to the 80GB Slave!!! The optical drives become E: and F: with the Ram Disk as D:. The 20GB doesn't appear to have a drive letter at all! I ran thru the alphabet and canot access the 20GB via the command line at all! yet they both appear correctly in the BIOS.
If I run Ghost off the C: (80GB) then it can see both hard drives. I also booted from a Maxtor Powwermax floppy and again I could not access the 20GB from the command line but the PowerMax software could see both drives.

The MOBO seems to be in good condition with no leaky or bulging bits.

As far as testing is concerned I tested the 80Gb with Hitachis drive fitness software after booting from a floppy disk. I also tested the drive i a Mac with Norton and the MacOSX built in drive tools.

I musst confess to being at a total loss! Does any of this ring a bell with anyone?

[tempus]

Can you possibly get your hands on an identical drive to rty in your system? I have run out of ideas. Is it possible the Hitachi drive is not properly formatted? Could it have some preinstalled software on it causing problems? What if you do a complete low level format from the Hitachi diagnostic software?

[spookyPC]

Hi tempus,

I don't have an exactly identical drive - i do have another Hitachi 80GB but its a different model. I couls always try and swap the 2. failing that I'll just have to buy another identical drive to test out with.

I've just fdisked and reformatted both drives and the 20GB now shows up as C: (Master) and the 80GB shows up as D: (Slave) when booted from a floppy to the command line.

Windows setup (Via the cd) still tells me that drive Dthe 80GB) is corrupted and setup cannot continue but once again I have successfully installed XP onto the 20GB (Master). Now that I can see both drives in the command line I am going to try to ghost the 20GB onto the 80GB.

will let u know what happens!

[tempus]

Originally Posted by spookyPC Hi tempus, I don't have an exactly identical drive - i do have another Hitachi 80GB but its a different model. I couls always try and swap the 2. failing that I'll just have to buy another identical drive to test out with. I've just fdisked and reformatted both drives and the 20GB now shows up as C: (Master) and the 80GB shows up as D: (Slave) when booted from a floppy to the command line. Windows setup (Via the cd) still tells me that drive Dthe 80GB) is corrupted and setup cannot continue but once again I have successfully installed XP onto the 20GB (Master). Now that I can see both drives in the command line I am going to try to ghost the 20GB onto the 80GB. will let u know what happens!

I would recommend the low level format on the drive. Use the Hitachi software to do this. What the low level format does is perform a write to each bit on the drive. Then try to install xp.

I got the following from another website.....
"A high-level format is commonly done if a user wishes to erase the hard disk drive and reinstall the operating system back onto the hard disk drive. If errors are present on the hard disk drive, or a high-level format is unable to be completed, a low-level format may need to be done first."

[spookyPC]

Hi tempus,

here is the latest.

I succesfully high level formatted both drives and installed XP onto the 20GB Master

I then booted off a floppy, ran Ghost and set it up to Ghost the 20GB onto the 80GB Slave

Ghost managed this fine and claimed no errors

I then set up the BIOS to boot from the newly cloned 80GB Drive and Restarted the machine

Windows XP begins to boot up to the black screen with Windows XP and the small progress bar in the middle of the screen and then the machine suddenly restarts. This continues endlessly.

I don't know if it helps but I looked in the system tools (after setting the bios to boot up from the 20GB again) and the System Log has a host of entries Labelled Disk Warning. They all say something like:

"An error was detected on device DEVICE\HardDisk1\D during a paging operation"

I don't know what this means or even if it is related.

Anyway, I will try a low level format tomorrow evening and will report back

thanx

[Panama Red]

I'm beginning to think your IDE 1 is messed on that mobo. Just had another thought. What if you switch the hard drive(s) to IDE 2? Are they recognized correctly and can you load XP with a CD drive on IDE 1?

[tempus]

i'm beginning to think your Hitachi drive is a dud and should be RMA'd back to the company.

[Cody_T7K]

I bought Hitachi deskstar T7k250 164.7 GB .. and i have the same problem like spookypc .. plus i can't partition the drive . i use partition magic and windows disk manager and both of them tell me (the format did not complete successfuly) some tools accept to partition like (paragon DM) but when i try to setup windows XP . it didn't complete and say (drive C is corrupted and cannot be repaired)

i do check the drive by DFT and WD tool without errors

I notice partition magic see the capacity as 157 GB .. and windows disk manager as 153 GB !!!

My PC
P4 2.4 GHZ 533 mhz
786 MB ram
M.B. MSI 845E MAX (the bios updated to latest version 9/2004)
VGA MSI geforce mx440
80 GB seagate drive

somehow i belive the problem related to the drive physical geometery

please >> help me

[Panama Red]

Cody, first off, you should start your own thread rather than hijack this one. Second, stick to using Hitachi's test programs rather than ones from WD. I'd suggest at this point to use Hitachi diagnostics and installation software to zero fill and start over. Do all the partitioning with the XP disk during the XP installation process. You can format the extra partition(s) after XP is installed using Disk Management. It appears their are two sizes of drives with that same number; 250Gb and 160Gb. If yours is a 160, the 157Gb is the correct size. After the zero fill, run the diagnostics.

[spookyPC]

Hi Cody - I feel your pain!

here is the latest!

I booted from a system disk containing Hitachi drive fitness tools. I ran ALL the tests 4 times on the drive and the drive passed each time.

I then low level formatted the drive 4 times - it did this fine each time with no errors.

I also ra the IDE Controllers tests - again NO errors!

I then tried to install XP again on this drive (remember that I have XP installed on a 20GB Master and that THIS drive is an 80GB Slave). XP this time got round to checking the drive and Passed! but then told me that setup couldn't create directory /windows and therefore could not continue.

I tried again and came up with the same error. I then ran setup and asked it to fomat the drive to NTFS before trying to install XP. It took about 20 minutes to do the format and when it finally got to 100% it suddenly came up with a Drive cannot be formatted - it may be damaged error.

Panama - I have switched IDE channels and this seems to make no difference - everything behaves as before.

Yet once again, if I boot into XP from the 20GB XP reads and writes to the 80Gb fine and the machine behaves with no problems!

If I get time tomorrow I'm going to try a different model of Hitachi 80GB

[glc]

I'd try a different brand of drive if I were you. Put that Hitachi in use somewhere where it works, maybe use it in an external housing.

[Cody_T7K]

Thank God .. I solve the problem .. it was because the harddrive work at transfer rate (UATA 133) or (UDMA 6) and ofcourse the mainboard doesn't support this mode, only UATA 100.

I use the software (Feature Tool v2.01) from hitachiGST website to Switch the Ultra DMA mode from 6 to 5 .. and after doing that every thing was fine .. i partition the drive without any problem and install XP

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm

but i think the drive should auto switch UDMA mode according to the ATA controller

spookyPC I think you have the same problem becasuse of your drive is UATA 133 .. hope you get rid of your problems soon

thanks every one

[tempus]

Originally Posted by Cody_T7K Thank God .. I solve the problem .. it was because the harddrive work at transfer rate (UATA 133) or (UDMA 6) and ofcourse the mainboard doesn't support this mode, only UATA 100. I use the software (Feature Tool v2.01) from hitachiGST website to Switch the Ultra DMA mode from 6 to 5 .. and after doing that every thing was fine .. i partition the drive without any problem and install XP http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm but i think the drive should auto switch UDMA mode according to the ATA controller spookyPC I think you have the same problem becasuse of your drive is UATA 133 .. hope you get rid of your problems soon thanks every one

i always thought that UATA 133 was/is backwards compatible to uata 100.

[glc]

Proves there's an exception to every rule.

[ITlover]

Originally Posted by spookyPC Hi tempus, I thought it might be the motherboard but I have successfully installed XP on a 20GB, a 12GB and a 40GB HD in this machine. On each occasion the drive in question was freshly formatted and installed as a single drive. I'm going to try Ghosting the 20GB currently installed in this PC onto the troublesome 80GB HD and see if it then boots from there. failing that I am gonna take an 80GB from out of my Mac and try that one - everyone I spoke to about this says the same thing: "It may just be one of those situations where for some inexplicable reason a single component causes problems for your PC that cannot be explained and often cannot be replicated even with a different but identical component!"

Hey guys,

I just read your discussions thoroughly and a question struck my mind that I want to post here.

Is it true that Hard Drives from different Companies are not supported by all motherboards?
I mean to say that for example Segate which is the most commonly used Hard Drive , can all motherboards support it ?

[glc]

Not true. You may just have to change a configuration as described. This also happens sometimes with SATA - trying to use a SATA II drive on certain SATA I controllers. You may have to use software or a jumper to set the drive to SATA I.

[spookyPC]

Cody you are a GENIUS!

I followed your advice and set my Hitachi to operate at UDMA 5 instead of 6 (even tho the BIOS saw it as UDMA6 originally and therefore I assumed that nothing was wrong!)

Then as if by magic I managed to install XP on this drive and everything is working just fine!

What made you think of this as the possible problem? It would never have occured to me! I have to admit that in the past I have always mixed ATA100 and ATA133 drives at will with no problmes and like Tempus always belived that they were backwards compatible. (For example, in my Mac I currently have ATA66, ATA100 and ATA133 drives on ATA66 and ATA100 buses with no problems).

Anyway all things work fine now (although my main 80GB drive is now drive D instead of C - Duh!)

Thanx to everyone for their help

Although it would still be nice to find out exactly why this is a problem . . .