Thermaltake Watercooling?

[AnotherMuggle]

Does anyone have experience of this water cooling kit? I want to put a watercooler on my PC purely for noise reduction.

This is what my local shop has offered me but I dont know a lot about it.

Do all watercoolers still have a fan? Will this be quieter than my stock X2 heatsink and fan?


http://www.thermaltake.com/product/L...6/cl-w0076.asp

Thanks

[Dannyw]

I was once going to buy this kit, but after i asked about it was told that it wasn't worth it and isn't one of the best out there. Can't tell you from first hand experience though.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Stay as far away as possible from that Thermaltake kit. The only way to do water right is to do it yourself. And thermaltake has one of the worst, poorest quality, watercoolin kits on the market.

Kits=bad
Thermaltake kits=worse.

[Dannyw]

Yeah the advice i got went something like that.

[AnotherMuggle]

Thank God I asked in here before going out and spending my money lol.

Can anyone suggest a decent alternative thats under the £150 mark. I'm aiming to reduce noise more than cool but certainly don't want temps to get any higher either.

I've got a case that has 2x 80mm fans in the back too which is a shame because I know this can contribute to noise over a single 120mm one but that's not something I want to replace at the moment.

Any recommendations would be greatly received, as always

[Dannyw]

Well from what i've heard you've got to get the bits (radiator, water blocks, tubing etc) all seperately if you want a descent cooling system.

[AnotherMuggle]

From what's been said in this post it appears that's the way forward...but still...which bits? lol

[Mr.Ferrari]

Silence is the reason why most do go watercooling. As have I. Great great temps with little to no noise. Heres a small summary of what each part does. The so called "little bits":
=============================
CPU block- This is where the heat is transferred from your cpu. The cpu block acts like a Median through which the heat is moved and later dissapated.

Many many blocks are available. But the two classes of blocks are impingent and non impingent. Impingent have are more restrictive to flow. Commonly using jets, pins, little tunnels and the such. Reason is. The heat is transfered to the copper area and the idea is to get as much heat out of that area as possibe, made more effective by making obstacles so more heat is carried out with the water.

When you present obstacles in the flow of water that water has to push and rub more to get going, this "Friction" pulls away more heat from the same surface size.

These blocks severely restrict the flow of water coming in. But offer better cooling capacity. If paired up with a weak pump, will give you negative effects. But once paired up with the right pump, these truely shine.

The others being non impingent. Usually have little to no restriction with the water coming in. Maybye a straight smooth tunnel or two. Or some big wide pins. These are great for loops with low pump pressure. But offer less performance.

Main manufacturers are Dangerden, Swiftech, Aquaxtreme, Silverprop. And also some more exotic ones such as Little River (also reffered to from the owners name, Cathar) and Ek, also known as EK Waterblocks.


Gpu blocks- Usually a little smaller and more compact then the cpu blocks. There are 3 main manufacturers of these, Eddy_Ek, Dangerden, Swiftech, Aquaxtreme.
And there are 2 main types of blocks.
Full cover
And just gpu.
Full cover are made to cover the whole card. These arent any better with temps then the normal blocks, and cooling of the memory doesnt reallyhelp with overclocks, but are very popular for aesthetics.
Otherwise in the normal gpu area all three of the main blocks are neck to neck with each other. Its usually best policy to go with the one that will Give the least amount of pressure drop (or restriction). And that is best fulfilled by a GPU specific block and copper ramsinks.
Videocards are no where as heat sensitive as cpus are. Key area here is to get something that will present as less of a blockade to the flow of water and keep the flowrate high.

The two most favorite ones in this area are Dangerden Maze4 and Swiftech MCW60.


Radiator- The radiator is the heart of your watercooling system. This is where all that heat that has been removed by your waterblocks is dissapated. It works by moving the hot water through tubes in the radiator, and having the copper fins next to the tubes absorb the heat. The heat is then extracted away from the fins through the Fans on the radiator. Hereby cooling the water and pushing it back out to the blocks. You must be careful which radiator you choose here. Some radiators are very dense and dont reak performance gains on anythign lower then 100CFM of air, which is LOUD. A well designed silent radiator will destroy it with 1/4 of the same fannage.

There are 4 main manufacturers of these. HW Labs, Swiftech, Cooltek, and Thermochill.
In order from lowest performing cheapest to highest performing most expensive.
Now three main types of radiator:
Single or 120mm: A small 120mm radiator. Designed for small loops of just the cpu. Fits 1 120mm fan.
Double or 240mm: These are the most recommended, usually used for cpu and gpu loops. Fit 2 120mm fans.
Triple or 360mm: Fit a total of 3 120mm fans. Best of the best, if you can fit on in your case go for it. Fit 3 120mm fans.

Ok now the only limiting factor is how big of one you can put in your case. Sometimes ppl have to drill holes to get theres to fit. Internal mounting one of these can be hard. And I really cant make a final suggestion untilyou either show me a pic of your case or give me a link.
But if you cant fit on inside your case and want a simple solution, I suggest this:
Swiftech's Rad Box
Heres how it works:
http://swiftnets.com/products/MCB-120.asp
And the radiator I suggest is:
the Swiftech MCR320 series. There is truely nothing better for the price. The only one better is the ThermoChill radiators which are more expensive. BUT!! These are made in the UK. Check out thermochill.com. If you live in the UK I bet you can get these radiators for the same price as the lower performaing Swiftechs. www.thermochill.com for more info.
These ThermoChill radiators are the KING of watercooling and silence. These only need the tinyiest bit of air to compeletly obliterate all the other radiators in the market.


Pumps- Pretty obvious. Without one, your parts would be useless. This is what makes the water flow. The more efficent your pump is at moving said water, the more efficient your loop will be. Too many brands to name. 2 most important things you should look for is head and flow. The key to the perfect pump is low heat dump and High HEAD. *How far it can push water vertically*.
Pump that I would suggest is:
Swiftech MCP 655
$74.99 Great little pump for the price, excellent head and flowrate. OR
Dangerden DDC Ultra. Currently the BEST DC pump on the market. Great low heatdump and super high flowrate. But requires a modified top to be bought.

I suggest the swiftech MCP655 for beginners.

Reservoir/T-line- Basically where your water gets filled up from and where its stored. Resevoir is exactly what its name applies. A little tank filled with water. Alot of resevoirs are designed to go in your 5 1/4'' drive bay or just stand somewhere in you case.
T-line is just a t- fitting with a few inch tube hanging from it. For ease of use I suggest you stick with the resevoir. Try to keep your resevoir placed somewhere near the top of the waterloop. And the one I suggest is this:
Swiftech mcres micro


Tubing- Well this is where your water will travel through. Two of the most popular manufacturers are McMaster and Tygon. Tygon is actually 4x more expensive. Due to its slightly tighter kink radius. But to many, mcmaster is the way to go. @ .49 a foot its a steal compared to tygon, and is just as good.
McMaster 1/2id 3/4od
I suggest you atleast get 10FT or more.
Also another alternitive is Mcmaster's 7/16'' ID tubing. It fits the 1/2'' barbs through which everything in your loop is attached through. The advantage of this slightly smaller tubing is that it looks better and is easier to route. But it takes some brute strength and/or boiling water to loosen it up and fit it over the barbs on your water components.


***Btw I forgot to mention this but there are two main barb sizes used with watercooling (barbs=the things in which water enters through in your rad, waterblocks, pump, res) For best performance always choose 1/2'' inner dimension (id) and 3/4' od(outerdimension) of Tygon or mcmaster.

Clamps- You need to make sure those tubes dont fall off.
I suggest breeze hose clamps for one. Just put them around the hose and tighten. Dont overtighten. Just until you feel the hose slightly bulging around the clamp. Do not overtighten is KEY. Also sometimes refered to as Jubillee Clamps. Or Worm Drive Hose clamps.

Fans- Your radiator is geared toward silence. The fans I suggest are:
Best quiet fans out there- Yate Loon D12SL. http://www.petrastechshop.com/12yalod1cafa.html . This are the premier pick for watercooling. See fan needs are totally jumbled up when you start putting fans on a radiator.
Ya sure a fan might push 50cfm of air. But how well will it push that same air when a blockade is introduced??? Thats where static pressure and fan design come in. And overall yate's have always come out on top. That, and the fact they are dirt cheap.


Last but not least. Coolant and Additives.
The only coolant you should ever use or ever need is Distilled water. And ONLY distilled water.
Additives- Additives serve to purpose of anti corrosion and anti algae. Corrosion is especially a issue when mixing metals. But I have comprised a all copper loop so you shouldnt be in too much a need of that. If you want a clear setup I would suggest plain distilled water plus a few drops of iodine to kill the nasties.
Otherwise some other popular additives are antifreeze such as Zerex. Add 5 to 10 percent per loop. Around 1 or 2 capfuls.
If you want a nice blue color I suggest Pentosin . Use 5 to 10 percent concentration with distilled water.
I would also be safe and add 2 to 4 drops of iodine above that if your going that route.
Another popular one is Swiftech's Hydrx Gives a nice green color. If you go this route dont add any iodine. And dont use this whole bottle for 1 litre of distilled water like swiftech says. It will destroy and clog your blocks. I would use half or 1/3 the suggested amount.

Guides:

For a indepth guide I would look at this by maxxxracer:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=54331
Skip to part 2 and 3 for installtion of your system. **note: That guide I linked, is well, a bit "xtreme", and very very very full proof, so dont worry about the indepth cleaning and stuff such as putting a filter in your loop. Just use common sense and youll be alll good.


Watercooled Case gallery:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=34877
So you can get a idea as to where to place everything and mount everything.
(Skip to the end and go back, so you can see the latest stuff )
*cracks fingers*
If you have any further questions feel free to ask. Good luck if you decide to go on with this.
===============================================
*******
Now on your setup. Before I suggest parts I would like to ask, What exactly do you want to watercool? Just cpu? or CPU and GPU?

BUYING IN UK.

I know that OCuK keeps some watercooling stuff.
www.overclockers.co.uk

I also know that alot of people in the UK had to buy some parts from US. Now the Only reputable place I suggest is www.petrastechshop.com
Two great guys run the shop. Alex and Quoc. Quoc takes care of overseas shipping stuff and just contact him through email. He will try his best to get you the best price he can on shipping. He is a reallly cool guy to do business with.

Petrastechshop also does a great great watercooling kit line. Basically he just bundles together the same parts I or any other expreianced watercooler would suggest. BUT he includes a great guide that will help wonders with your watercooling. It also makes it much easier for newbies. So it might be something you would want to look into.

Hopefully that helps

[Chris_Rootes_Wizard]

"Can anyone suggest a decent alternative thats under the £150 mark. I'm aiming to reduce noise more than cool but certainly don't want temps to get any higher either."


If you do go for the video card too, why not a passive heat sink? (like a copper-finned heat sink or aluminum) like metal that gets rid of heat, as long as you'v got resonable air flow.

Or for CPU use a Zalman "Flower Cooler" And a fan to supply with air will work good. (found in my trusty computer book ) Or something silimar? (spelling, soz ) lol

EDIT: heres a part ouuta meh book:

"However, there are some useful counter measures available and here the DIY system builder can customize a computer to suit. For one, consider a passive heatsink for the processor, i.e. one with out a powerd fan. There are plenty of bizzar-looking but highly-effective heatsinks around that can keep the processor well within acceptiable temperture limitations (under 75 celcius for a pentium 4)

Even chipset fans tend to be irritatingly intrusive, so you might care to remove the northbridge heatsink and replace it with a silen fan less alternative.

Most recent video card also use fan-assisted heatsinks to cool the GPU. Here again t often possibe to replace the origional with a silent version. Be carefull, thought: some of the lates video chips run so hot that a passive heatsink alone is not sufficiant unless there is a fan earby to supply cool air.

Theres little to do about a noisy PSU other than replace it with a quiet one- or, of corse, to buy a quite PSU in the first place. Check the specs and look fo an acoustic noise level of about 30dB when the unit is running at 75% capasity.

Going further, you can even encase the hard disk in an acoustic enclousure and clad the interiour of the case with spound muffling pannels.

Cooling Caveats
Just a couple:

1. Im smaller cases, the PSU is often located drectly above the processor socket. This generally rules out a passive heatsink because there simpilly isnt the neccay clearance over the processor. And even if you can squeeze one in the avaible space, dont for get that...

2. Even an elaborate super-efficiant passive heat sink needs some indepant cooling. This is generally provided by a larg, variable- speed ultra quiet fan positioned directly above the heatsink and held in place with an angled bracket attached to the case. Again this is not possibe in most mid- tower cases."

There

[Mr.Ferrari]

No such thing as a passive heatsink for a card unless its a very low power one. And the zalman CNPS7700 is not that quiet. There are better choices for quiet for the same or less amount of money.

[Chris_Rootes_Wizard]

Thats what the book showed. I dont know.

[AnotherMuggle]

"Thats what the book showed. I dont know." - if you dont know then shhh

[Chris_Rootes_Wizard]

Thanks, not!

The book is writen by a freelance writer and journalist, he contributes technology and internet features to magazines and the U.K national press with a storng focus on debunking jargon, explaining how things work in plain english, and help making everyday computing accessable to all.

Sounds like he knows a bit. (Oh btw thats the second edition)

Sorry

[AnotherMuggle]

Chris...how old are you? Purely out of curiosity

[Dannyw]

14 according to the profile

[AnotherMuggle]

Nice work Dannyw...I didn't think to look in there

[Chris_Rootes_Wizard]

Yeah, 14, kinda young, yes, why, problem?!

[AnotherMuggle]

No problem as such...just I'm not liking your attitude too much that's all!

[Chris_Rootes_Wizard]

Humm, im getting off one the wrong foot to this forum, im gunna calm down a bit, its just, i cant seem to get it in to my big head, this is a helping forum, rarther than a public chat - about - pcs forum.

"just I'm not liking your attitude too much that's all!" Can you tell me how to improve (well, what im saying/doing wrong), i dont like being unpopular like this.

[Cricket]

I think this thread better get back on subject or it'll get closed soon.

Cricket

[Alaron]

__Moderator Note__

My thoughts exactly Cricket. Guys, this is not a chatroom. Tomkear and CRW, keep to the topic at hand.

[gherkin]

Great guide that Mr Ferrari, although not into Watercooling myself (well not yet as I seem to constantly have no money) that was a very helpful guide, I never really knew that sort of stuff exsited I would have just purchased a kit and made do.

Thank very much for enlightening me that there is more stuff out there.

Can it be made a sticky topic or am I being cheeky

[Chris_Rootes_Wizard]

"Great guide that Mr Ferrari, although not into Watercooling myself (well not yet as I seem to constantly have no money) that was a very helpful guide, I never really knew that sort of stuff exsited I would have just purchased a kit and made do.

Thank very much for enlightening me that there is more stuff out there.

Can it be made a sticky topic or am I being cheeky"

Same, here, i would of bought one with out a second thought to that, i learnt alot from that guide, maybe you could edit out the rest and leave the giude it self (and the origional post) as a sticky, it wold help alot of people.

[Brad the best]

I agree , there are only 2 stickys for cooling anyway and most people don't know anything about water cooling , or even worse they think they do . It would make a great sticky

[Mr.Ferrari]

Thats a pretty slimmed down version. Maybe in the future I'll type up a full guide.

But for now..lets let go of this old thread lol.