What should be my next upgrade?

[Soriasis]

Hello there. I believe only after 4 months of building my own computer. I've decided to upgrade a computer part, one by one. I have a few questions about upgrading.

What should my next upgrade be? I have a limited budget (around 200-300 dollars CAN). I only plan to upgrade either: my RAM, my GFX card, or my Processor.

My motherboard, which is an A8N SLi Deluxe can support dual graphics cards or SLi.

My processor is an AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice Core.

And I currently am holding 1 GB of DDR Ram bought at Future shop (not such a great brand, its called AzenRAM).

Anyway. Here is what my options are.

If I were to upgrade my GFX card over all of them. Should I go with another GFX card that is SLi or just stay single? I am currently using a GeForce 6800 GS SLi 512MB which can run new high end games at a normal pace.

If I were to upgrade my processor, it would most likely be another AMD chip because my mobo is only supportable for AMD processors.

If I were to upgrade my RAM, i would most definately bring it up to 2GB of RAM.

here are some side-questions for my options.

For SLi capabilities, all I have to do is just get another SLi video card and place it on my motherboard right? I dont' have to do any extra BIOS or CMOS stuff right? As for the drivers, that is a must. Im just really new to this "SLi" technology, even though I have read up on some of its information.

Does it HAVE to be the same graphics card in order to succesfully use SLi?

Thank you.

[freakitchen]

I don't think SLI would give you much performance increase for your money. It would have to be the same card that was added, and it would really only give you a slight increase in gaming performance. Conversely, swapping out the video card with a single higher powered card, like the 7900GT, would give you better results in games.

Another thing to consider - you would need an SLI Certified Power Supply to run SLI (speaking of which, what is the brand/model/wattage of your current unit?)

You'd also see a gaming benefit by going to 2GB of RAM, and an increase in system performance (particularly multitasking) by going for a Dual Core Processor.

Here's what I would do. You say you intend to upgrade one of the components, but I'd be tempted to dig deep and upgrade all three. Socket 939 is being phased out now - the availability of Dual Core processors is dropping off, and DDR Ram prices are increasing by the day - now that DDR2 is the standard for both AMD and Intel's current sockets.

If that's not financially do-able, then I'd upgrade your processor and RAM now. Changing your video card would give you the best in-game performance increase, but you'll be able to get hold of PCI-Express video cards for a long time - the same cannot be said for 939 Processors and RAM.

All that said - your upgrade potential is goverened by your power supply, so let us know the specs on that.

FK

[pam123]

I agree.
What are the going prices for dual core socket 939 processors in Canada ?
I would get the most powerful one I could find.
Your next purchase should be another stick of 1gb memory.
I'd get a new graphics card when DX 10 games came out for Vista.

[Soriasis]

thank you for the fast replies.

my power supply is a 450 watt Xion. Its probably a no-name brand to you guys. Only because it came along with my case preinstalled.

I don't understand what you mean by 939 phasing out. Does that mean its bad for me or good for me? Or are you saying the days of 939 are falling and they are not so great to buy. I recently noticed there are new sockets for the AMD products releasing, but I don't think my Motherboard could support it. Which is why I plan to stick with 939 for some time until my money towards computers increase.

As for the graphics card. I'm playing games like Elder Scrolls Oblivion, and my PCI-E card could run it at high, just the framerate can drop to about 10-15 sometimes. As for games like Counter Strike Source and Battle field 2, it can maintain a very high framerate. So I guess I should stick with my 6800 GS for the time being.

For the processor. If I were to buy a new processor. It would be...
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ / 1MB Cache / 2000MHz FSB / Socket 939 / Dual-Core / Processor with Fan
which costs 249.99.
That would be around $199.99 US or something?
It is a Dual-Core and socket 939. So I might be investing into that one.

As for the ram part. I have 2 512MB DDR AzenRAM chips. Is it alright to get another 2 or 1 GB Ultra RAM chips? Can you mix and match "BRANDS" even though your specs are the same (PC3200, etc.).

[freakitchen]

What we mean about phasing out, is that AMD is no longer manufacturing socket 939 processors - which means shortly, new ones will not be available. The same goes for standard DDR - both Intel and AMD are now using DDR2, which means DDR will get continually mroe expensive.

Nothing wrong with staying with socket 939 - just buy your upgrades now. I'd put the video card on hold to allow yourself to upgrade the Processor and RAM in the short term.

The 4200+ is a good processor. If you can find the 4400+, though, it's worth the extra, as it has double the L2 Cache on each core.

Regarding the RAM, it's preferable to have identical brands, but getting a different brand should be ok. You should, however, purchase another two 512mb sticks, to enable 'dual channel' operation. I'd recommend Corsair Value Select memory - Ultra isn't the best brand.

All that said, Xion power supplies are poor quality, and I wouldn't trust your existing system to one, let alone a Dual Core based system. I highly suggest you replace that with a quality ATX2 unit, from a manufacturer such as Antec, Enermax or Fortron (to name just a few)

FK

[pam123]

/\ /\ /\......
What he said.

[Soriasis]

thanks for pointing that out to me. Now that I know that AMD is soon not making any more 939 makes me want to buy the upgraded processor first.

But now that you mentioned the power supply. Rings up another upgrade question.

When you said that i should replace my power supply due to Xion's because poor quality. Should that be first priority compared to my processor? Remember how my budget is only around 200-300. And if i spend about $100-150 on a power supply, then my processor upgrade won't be existant anymore.

And when you mentioned I should get an ATX2 power supply. I looked around www.tigerdirect.ca via power supply. And I could only find "ATX" power supplies, there weren't any "ATX2" power supplies.

When you mentioned that there was a possibility that my power supply could not handle my dual core processor. What would that mean? Would that mean it would fry my motherboard, fry the power supply, fry my whole computer, etc.

This is what I'm "assuming" from all your guys' great comments that what my pattern of upgrades I should get.

#1. Processor (Due to the fact that AMD is at the point where they are soon not making anymore).
#2. Power Supply (after what I saw your comment)
#3. RAM (because the fact that my Motherboard cannot support DDR2)
#4. Graphics Card (since im quite a hardcore gamer).

Thanks once again.

[freakitchen]

Yes, the power supply should be your first priorty. Having a quality one is important - not just for your planned components but for your current ones as well.

Take a look at www.ncix.com and www.canadacomputers.com for your parts - tigerdirect is not considered a reputable store, in the US at least.

I found this power supply at Canada computers. Good for a Dual core system with a decent video card.

http://www.canadacomputers.com/index...310&cid=PS.808

Note that it has no more wattage than your Xion unit, but is much higher quality.

Using a poor quality power supply with a high powered system can be catastrophic. It may say 450w on the side, but that's likely to be an overestimate - particularly when running at higher temperatures - when it may put out more like 300w or less. This would cause severe system instability, with frequent crashes and shutdowns. More worryingly, low quality units don't adhere to the required voltages on the specific 'rails'. Quality power supplies stay within 5% of the specified voltage on each rail, but low quality units can vary wildly - which can kill your components. Finally, should a low quality unit give up the ghost, lack of overvoltage protection is sure to result in dead components. This is much less likely to happen with a decent unit.

The order of purchase you listed makes sense. Normally, the video card would be a higher priority...but it's better to get the CPU and RAM now before you miss out, or are forced to pay through the nose.

FK

[pam123]

Yes it does : # Meets ATX Version 2.2, v1.3, and
# ATX 12V Version 2.2 Specifications
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...0&Sku=ULT31851

Scroll down the page and check all the specs (this is just an example, I'm not suggesting you buy this).

[Soriasis]

Alright. I think ive been convinced to buy a power supply first thing. Then a new processor.

as for my places where im going to buy... There is a very reliable cheap computer shop near where I live. I am first going to check out that place for any parts that are identical to ones I see on tigerdirect and canadacomputers. Plus, if something doesn't work i can just return it. As for www.tigerdirect.ca? Well I have ordered all my previous computer parts from that website so I think ill stick with that location.

I have looked at some power supplies recently. And the one that pal123 suggested was looking pretty decent. and this one too. http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...1&Sku=ULT31848
as for the antec one. the description for it was too vague so i couldn't really make out if it was really good or not. However, Id like to keep my shopping towards tigerdirect if you don't mind. If you could suggest a power supply from tigerdirect thatd be great.

I also have a couple of questions about power supplies.

Any power supply that says "ATX" beside its name or anywhere in the description should fit inside an ATX case right?

And if a power supply description says it has "8x Peripherals" power cables. Does that mean they are the 4 pin molex/power cables?

So I think with your information. Ive been convinced to set my priorities to this.
#1. Power Supply (any thing thats better then my Xion D
#2. Processors (Its going to be a 4600 X2)
#3. RAM (DDR PC 3200 any brand of RAM, if my tech store has my same brand then ill probably get 2 DDR for Dual Channel)
#4. Graphics Card (since graphics cards are upgrading at such a high rate, ill leave this one last. And plus, i would rather have my computer go fast then my games.)

Alright, thanks for the help so far. I think ill consult some more people before I make my actual shopping.

BTW, do you have any idea when the 939s will stop selling?

[freakitchen]

Ultra power supplies are bad news. We'd always questioned their ability, then the PC Mech reviewing team were sent a couple of units that couldn't even power an Intel Celeron! The quality is just not there, so avoid them. (Pam wasn't suggesting you get that power supply, just pointing out the 'ATX2' label).

Tigerdirect.ca have VERY few quality power supplies. They focus almost wholly on Ultra, and don't stock brands like Antec or Forton. This is one of the only units i could recommend from them that's not overkill for your system, or too expensive:

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...5893&CatId=106

Any power supply that says ATX will fit in an ATX case. The only exception are 'micro ATX' power supplies, for smaller cases - but they're even harder to find. The Enermax I linked to specifies what connectors it has.

Regarding your priorities. I'd actually get the 4400+ over the 4600+. The former has 2x1mb of Level2 cache, whereas the latter - despite being a 'faster' processor - only has 2x512kb. The 4800+ is the next suitable 'upgrade' from the 4400+.

Don't just get any brand of RAM. Go for the established quality of crucial, or Corsair.

939 Dual Cores have just taken a price tumble, and as a result are starting to get snapped up. It wouldn't surprise me if they were virtually unavailable in a month or two. DDR ram is getting more expensive as time passes.

FK

[pam123]

Get the processor first, there won't be many left shortly.

[Soriasis]

okay ty for your help FK and Pam123.

So I should be looking for brands like Antec or Enermax, or the ones you have suggested. And stay away from ultra brands. I believe I should get the power supply and the processor at the same time if I can.

[freakitchen]

This thread has the top brands highlighted in Blue:

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=131195

For your intended system, allowing for your eventual video card upgrade, look for 450w at least. Maybe 500 to give you some headroom.

Look for ATX2 and Dual 12v Rails - both vital for a PCi-Express based system.

FK

[The_YongGrand]

Originally Posted by Soriasis Hello there. I believe only after 4 months of building my own computer. I've decided to upgrade a computer part, one by one. I have a few questions about upgrading. What should my next upgrade be? I have a limited budget (around 200-300 dollars CAN). I only plan to upgrade either: my RAM, my GFX card, or my Processor. My motherboard, which is an A8N SLi Deluxe can support dual graphics cards or SLi. My processor is an AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice Core. And I currently am holding 1 GB of DDR Ram bought at Future shop (not such a great brand, its called AzenRAM). Anyway. Here is what my options are. If I were to upgrade my GFX card over all of them. Should I go with another GFX card that is SLi or just stay single? I am currently using a GeForce 6800 GS SLi 512MB which can run new high end games at a normal pace. If I were to upgrade my processor, it would most likely be another AMD chip because my mobo is only supportable for AMD processors. If I were to upgrade my RAM, i would most definately bring it up to 2GB of RAM. here are some side-questions for my options. For SLi capabilities, all I have to do is just get another SLi video card and place it on my motherboard right? I dont' have to do any extra BIOS or CMOS stuff right? As for the drivers, that is a must. Im just really new to this "SLi" technology, even though I have read up on some of its information. Does it HAVE to be the same graphics card in order to succesfully use SLi? Thank you.

You start with the graphics card if you are into gaming.

If you are doing heavy work, you can upgrade the processor - but it's very difficult since after one wants to change the processor, the motherboard should be changed too, because of architectural change when the processor improves.

RAM? Ah, you can boost it to 2GB too. It'll run any current programs without a hitch.

edit: I think SLi doesn't help much - maybe it'll increase framerates for wide-screen resolutions, but not the texture quality and the stuff like that. If you want to have high-quality textures and high framerates you better get a good single videocard. Also, in most modern games, they usually follow the rule for upgrades (the GFX is the topmost priority): GFX card > CPU > RAM. Hope that helps.

[freakitchen]

Originally Posted by the_yongGrand You start with the graphics card if you are into gaming.

Normally that would be the case, but as already said in this thread, soon skt 939 Athlon X2s just won't be available, and DDR Ram will be very expensive. PCI-Express graphics cards will be around for a while yet.

FK

[Soriasis]

Originally Posted by The_YongGrand You start with the graphics card if you are into gaming. If you are doing heavy work, you can upgrade the processor - but it's very difficult since after one wants to change the processor, the motherboard should be changed too, because of architectural change when the processor improves. RAM? Ah, you can boost it to 2GB too. It'll run any current programs without a hitch. edit: I think SLi doesn't help much - maybe it'll increase framerates for wide-screen resolutions, but not the texture quality and the stuff like that. If you want to have high-quality textures and high framerates you better get a good single videocard. Also, in most modern games, they usually follow the rule for upgrades (the GFX is the topmost priority): GFX card > CPU > RAM. Hope that helps.

What do you mean by that?

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by Soriasis What do you mean by that?

Architectural changes are when improvements are made to a CPU core and pin layout. It's like going from a AMD Athlon to a Athlon 64 and then to a Athlon X2. On the Intel side it would be like going from a PII to a PIII to a P4 and then to one of the Dual Core processors (800 or 900 series or Core 2 Duo).

Cricket

[The_YongGrand]

Yeah, and honestly speaking, changing a processor on a current motherboard is quite difficult - if one wants to change the processor usually one have to change the motherboard, and also the memory sticks too. Processor upgrade is just too difficult when the architectures keep changing.

So it's just very practical to just get a new rig every 3 years or so if into serious gaming.

[freakitchen]

I agree with you in the sense that socket changes take place frequently enough to warrant a new build if high gaming performance is required.

However, i think the case of Soriasis is quite different. Socket 939 is a very stable platform, and the right processor/RAM/vid card combination can make a high powered computer, despite AMD's move to AM2.

AM2, for instance, shows a case where buying into the latest socket ISN'T always a good idea - in this case due to RAM issues.

I just dropped a dual core and 2GBs of RAM into my main system - with the view of replacing the video card later on, and I think this build will serve my purposes for a good few years. With the prices of AMD Dual cores right now, 'bang for buck' is right up there.

I'd disagree with you that changing a processor is difficult. I updated the BIOS to the latest version, then took the motherboard out of the case, and with care removed the heatsink by twisting and pulling. Then just dropped the new processor into the socket.

FK

[Sam-U-Rai]

I'm already getting my CPU this week (week by week, I get some parts until Nov. cause of my job) and I'm already getting nervous about the new AM2 platform. Hopefully it'll be stable...... Im getting an Asus AM2 mobo so I hope that helps.



Did they fix the problems yet with the Stability?

[The_YongGrand]

Originally Posted by Freakitchen ...I'd disagree with you that changing a processor is difficult. I updated the BIOS to the latest version, then took the motherboard out of the case, and with care removed the heatsink by twisting and pulling. Then just dropped the new processor into the socket.

Eh... I didn't mean that changing/replacing the processor is physically difficult - it's very easy as long as you follow the manual books.

What I mean is uh... when the architectures change, usually the whole combination changes as well, like the RAM and the motherboard. It's a little bit difficult to guarantee a user that the board is future-proof. Look what had happened to my friend who wanted to upgrade his processor (s754) and then after just two years to now, the 754s Athlons are already vanished from the market. Now all the 754s are already not sold anymore.

at least the 939s has some upgrades. If I have a 939, I rather not touch the AM2 first until the next year.