Adding A new Second Hard Drive Questions, Please

[BOBRR]

Hello:

Sure wish I knew about this Form previously. Looks great.
I'm a real novice at this, so please bear with me.

I can't believe it, but I have come close to filling up my 13 GB HD.
So, I guess it's time to add another new, second, HD also.
I'm scared stiff about lousing up my PC, as it works really well, but am willing to try. Also quite concerned about accidentally re-formatting my present C drive by mistake.
I have A Dell Dimension XPS R400 Mini-Tower style PC purchased in '98, and running W98.

a. I have learned a lot about HD installation from reading thru this forum this morning, but if someone has some spare time, and can lead me thru the installation for an additional Second HD, in "Excrutiating Detail", I would be MOST grateful.
I also have a few specific questions which I'll list below:

b. I'm confused about whether my original drive is now set to "Master" as shipped to me by Dell, or "Cable Select" which I've never heard of, but someone mentioned (see below) that it could very well be. I naively thought all I'd have to do is set the new drive to "Slave". How do I check this? Which do I want?

"Did you set the jumpers to cable select? Your original Dell drive should be set to cable select unless you changed it to master. You can use slave on the second drive, but you would need to change the original to master. CS/CS is easier"

This seems to imply that the second HD, or the first?, should be set to Cable Select rather than as the Slave.

I haven't seen this before. I thought you always had to set the second to Slave when you installed it, and the First HD that came with the system was automatically set by Dell to Master as shipped.

Can someone please explain this Cable Select for me.
What, if anything, would have to do the existing HD when I add the new one. (via jumpers on both?)

c. By the way, are fDisk and Format the same? Could someone please explain
these terms for me?
What do you do first: fdisk or format? How?
--Is it really specific, so one doesn't run the risk of messing up the
present C drive?

d. Very confused regarding Partitions. Do I Have to partition the new drive? How?

e. Is where you place the cable connector to the new drive
foolproof as regards which pins to which pins, etc. ?

f. Does one use that icon I noticed in the W98 Control Panel that has "Add New Hardware" for anything when installing a second HD? I think, but am not sure, that it's mainly for plug-and-play devices? Are there plug-and-play add on HD's?

g. Any brand HD's to avoid?
Which come with the Best instruction manual for a novice like me?

h. How do I get the BIOS to recognize the new drive; is it automatic?

i. What questions should I be asking, but have not thought of?

Much thanks; really appreciate all your time and help.

Bob rgsrose@tiac.net

[southrk]

ok, i have some answers, but not all of them.
question C : no fdisk and format are not the same, Fdisk creates partitions and Format Wipes out your HD.

question E : yes it is fool proof, there is only one way the connector connects.

Question G : Maxtors are good drives, they come with good instructions and a disk that will format and partition for you. I do not like IBM drives, i have had several problems with them, my advice to you is go with a maxtor or western digital.

[babylon5guy]

Hi Bob,

I use and like IBM drives as do a lot of other people on this board. Quantum and Maxtor I've also had good luck with. I don't like Seagate or Western Digital. Your current drive should be set to master unless it is ATA66 or 100 do you know? Being as old as it is, it is probably ATA33 and set to master. If you open the case what color is connector from the hard drive on the mobo(motherboard)I'm looking for the color of the connector on the mobo. This info should also be in your manual. This must be determined before you do anything cable select and master, slave are not interchangeable! What other drives do you have, CDROM, DVD, Burner ect? I realize you don't have another hard drive. Fdisk and format are not the same. Fdisk sets your disk up (to be formated and partitioned) then you format. Yes you have to partion your drive, to one drive or several. Nothing is foolproof but cabling the drive is pretty straight forward. Again we need to know if you are ATA33, 66, or 100. Yes the bios will automatically detect your drive. Get back to us with the ATA info and we can walk you throught the installation.
HTH

[Smoke24]

I use IBM drives for my own use but my second choice is Maxtor. I have used lots of them too with no problems. If Maxtor, don't buy the value line drives. To get the instructions and the utility disk you'll need to buy the retail boxed version of Maxtor but you can buy OEM and make you a copy of the utility disk and get the instructions at the Maxtor or IBM websites depending on which you choose, I am sure the other brands are the same. The cable select setting allows the drives position on the cable to determine whether it is master or slave, master is at the end and slave in the middle. To prevent screwing up the present drive, disconnect it while setting up the new one. that way you won't accidentally fdisk or reformat it. Fdisk allows you to set and activate partitions on the drive and you can have it any way you want it but they must be made active even if you choose to have only one big one, format sets up the sectors to allow them to be written to and makes sure that the partition is clean to begin with. You may need to make sure to get a new cable with the new drive and I recommend you get an ATA 66/100 80 wire cable, retail box usually comes with it. I would also suggest you get a 7200 RPM ATA 100 drive and it will probably be faster than the original one. Don't forget to activate DMA in the system properties for the new drive. Hope this helps and Good luck.

[BOBRR]

Hi All:

just want to say a real quick thanks for everyone's answers and help.

For babylon5guy / Greg; Will provide answers as soon as I open case
up, and get into it (literally). Probably won't be able to for about two weeks.
Really getting anxious to try as soon as possible.

Much thanks-really appreciate it.

Bob

[mike breck]

Hi BOBRR,

Have a look at this section here at PC Mechanic

http://www.pcmech.com/byopc/step/25/

Also look at this guide which is a good walkthro for installation, partitioning, and formatting, with diagrams.

http://www.tech-review.com/review.pl?id=75&page=2

Also, keep in mind, when get round to doing it, if you wish to keep the drive letter assignment on your first drive (Old drive: C,D,etc. New drive: E, F,etc) then make the new drive an "Extended Dos Partition" and create "Logical Drives" within that Extended Dos partition.
You will be presented with these options when you partition using FDISK.
In saying this, I am assuming that you will be keeping Windows on the old drive and using the new drive for more programs and data back-up.

HTH

Mike

[BOBRR]

Hi again:

Just looked in the Dell manual, and I have a ATA 33 HD.

Does this mean I can't use an ATA 66 for my new additional one?
Not sure if the original controller is on the HD, or my PC motherboard.

Guess I'm asking if I should stick to purchasing an ATA 33 only?

Bob

[Carl Price]

Bobrr, you can't buy ATA33 anymore. All modern harddrive are at least ATA66 and most are ATA 100. If you do find an ATA 33 it is old stock. Avoid Seagate and Western Digital drives like the plague. Everyone to his own preference I guess, but Southrk is the only person in my memory to denigrate IBM drives in one of these forums. I have installed thousands of drives in my lifetime and I have never replaced one Fujitsu under warranty and only one IBM. These along with Maxtor are the only drives I will use. At one time I had a 65% failure rate on WD. Most were less than six months old.

The cable postion is determined by the red stripe on one side of the cable. This strip goes next to the power connector on modern drives and next to designated pin one on the motherboard. Your drive jumper settings will be determined by your IDE cable. If it is the old style ATA-33 (40 conductor) cable you will need to use Master/Slave. If it is the new ATA 66/100 cable set both drives to cs and put the motherboard on the blue connector, your master on the other end of the cable(black connector?), the slave in the middle of the cable (gray connector?)

Next boot to a dos prompt and run Fdisk /actok (the /actok switch turns off verifying partition integrity and therefore cuts off about 20 minutes of the fdisk process. You don't need it as the integrity of the drive will be verified during formatting) and chose large drive support when prompted. It is then very important to choose #5 from the Menu (change harddrive) and then choose #2 (the second harddrive). If you don't do this you will fdisk the old harddrive and lose your data. Next choose #1 (create primary partition) or #2 (create extended partition)from the menu. Easy rule of thumb: If your main hd is partitioned into more than one harddrive choose #2 as this will leave the drive designations on the main harddrive alone. If your main harddrive is partitioned as one drive choose #1. If you choose #1 you will be thru and you can esc out of the program when it returns you to the menu. If you choose #2 you will have to designate drive letter(s) for the new harddrive.

When you exit fdisk reboot the machine into Windows. From the desktop double click on my computer. Choose the new drive (probably d) and right click on it. It is very important that you choose the correct drive because if you format the old drive you will lose all your data and programs. Choose format in the dropdown box that appears, and then choose full format. This will be a Windows format and will be fast. The operating system will then give you the opportunity to run scandisk on the new drive. Take this opportunity, as it will be the only test the drive has undergone during the entire install procedure.

[BOBRR]

Hi,

Much thanks for such a detailed writeup; really appreciate all the time you must have taken in writing it. Was just what I was seeking.

Let me show some more of my ignorance:

How do I: "boot to a dos prompt" ?

Thanks again,
Bob

[Smoke24]

Hold down F8 during bootup and select boot to command prompt from the menu.

[mike breck]

Hey Carl,

Nice tip about the FDISK /actok!

I've never come across that before.

[JUNG2]

Thanks for that tip regarding fdisk /actok

[glc]

Your Dell will have a standard-appearing 40 wire IDE cable. It may or may not be a "cable select" type cable.

This is easy. LOOK at the jumpering on your existing hard drive. If it's jumpered to "Cable Select" it is a cable select type cable, and your new drive should also be set that way. If it's set to Master or Single, the new drive should be jumpered to "slave" and the original drive set to Master.

I would recommend that you use a hard drive no larger than 33.4 gb to avoid a possible BIOS issue with large drives.

Everyone's opinion is different, but here are drives that I will and will not use -

I use Western Digital, IBM, and Fujitsu.
I will not use Maxtor, Quantum, Samsung, or Seagate.

You can use setup software to install the drive - for novices this can be the easiest way. Retail boxed drives come with the software and a small installation manual, OEM "bare" bagged drives do not, but the software can be downloaded from the drive manufacturer. The software is pretty foolproof and user friendly, and you will have no problem as long as you do not do anything to the existing drive with it. For example, WD's has the "EZ-Install" option, which will walk you through the installation by checking your system, asking you questions, and providing you options.

[wrelax]

how do you fdisk on win2k, use a boot disk? and if so how u make one for win 2k