Trouble Installing Optical Drive

[Daydreamer]

I am trying to instal a new optical drive. I recently added a PCI/SATA card and SATA hard drive. I left my old EIDE drive in place. The system worked fine. This morning I was attempting to install my new ASUS DVD Burner. I decided to eliminate my old hard drive which was connected to the IDE Primary on my ASUS P2B-F motherboard and I removed my old Toshiba CD-ROM. The CD-ROM was set as a slave to the original hard drive.

When I started up the system went through the screens showing that the bios had detected the drive and was showing it as a master. The screen changed and a screen came up with PCI settings. After that, it just sat there. It didn't go any further. I never made it to Windows XP.

I unplugged the ribbon cable and re-booted. The system re-booted and I got into Windows so that I could send this message.

Any ideas about what I need to do ???

[tempus]

you probably need to change the boot order in the bios. Set the dvd burner to master also.

[Daydreamer]

I am booting from the SCSI setting on my bios because I am using a SATA drive instead of the EIDE. The DVD is set to master.

The other thing I just noticed is that when the system freezes with the PCI settings displayed, a message at the bottom of the screens says UPDATE ESCD SUCCESSFULLY.

This is where the system stops.

I went back and installed the old IDE drive and set it to master and the DVD to slave. Went into the BIOS and set the HDD auto detection to AUTO for both the master and slave on the primary IDE.

I made sure that the system was booting to the SATA drive, and re-started the machine. Well ya gotta know the S.O.B. started right up. How do I get the old HDD out and put my Toshiba CD back in? The ASUS manual says that I should be able to have a master and a slave on each IDE channel.

Any ideas????

[tempus]

Is that a scsi card you are using? If yes then you will need to install the driver for it.

[glc]

I'm familiar with his setup, card driver is not the issue. It's not a SCSI card, it's a PCI SATA card for his new hard drive, and those old Award bioses need to be set to boot to SCSI to boot to a SATA card.

If you are using an 80 wire IDE cable, make sure the correct end (usually blue) is on the motherboard, and jumper the drives to CS (cable select). The master goes on the black end and the slave goes on the gray connector in the middle. If it's a 40 wire, you have to use master/slave jumpering.

Leave the old hard drive and CD connected if they both work and try the new burner all by itself on the secondary IDE, observing those cabling/jumpering rules.

[Daydreamer]

A couple of weeks ago I installed a PCI/SATA card and a new Seagate drive. I chasnged my bios to boot from the new drive. I left my old EIDE/HDD hooked up and in the case. It was drive E. In another thread GLC had advised me to remove the HDD. I had ordered a new DVD-Burner from Newegg and received it a couple of days ago. I needed mounting rails for it, but that's another story. I had a Toshiba CDROM installed as a slave to the HDD. I wanted to keep the CDROM and add the new DVD.

I thought this would be simple. Unplug the old HDD, attach the ribbon cable to the DVD, attach the power cables, set the DVD to master, change the Toshiba CD to a master and put it on the secondary IDE channel and away I would go. Not to be....

The system would freeze with the PCI settings displayed.

Finally, I put the old HDD back as master and hooked up the DVD as a slave on the primary IDE connector and the system starts.

I still boot to the SATA drive. The HDD is hooked up but it's not doing anything. I mean I can access it but I don't know why it seems important in the boot sequence.

I just want to get the HDD out and have my CDROM and DVD burner operate.

[glc]

Pull the hard drive out and connect both opticals on separate cables. No good? Then connect them on the same cable in master/slave (or CS if you use an 80 wire cable).

[Daydreamer]

I think I have already tried your suggestion.

For testing purposes, Test 1 - I set the CDROM to Master and attached it up by itself on the primary IDE. Result - System freeze at PCI setting screen. Test 2 - I removed the CDROM and attached the new DVD. Result - same as before. Test 3 - I removed the DVD and set it to Slave. I set the CDROM to Master and attached the middle connector of the 40 pin connector to the CDROM and the connector at the end of the 40 pin cable to the DVD.

It only seems to work with the HDD attached.

Don't understand the CS jumper and how would I use an 80 wire cable when I only have a 40 pin connector?

I haven't tried attaching the other drive to the secondary IDE. I will give it a shot and follow up with a post.

Am I missing something in the bios setup?

[flanzig1]

There are 2 types of data cables for IDE drives; there is the 40 wire and 80 wire. They both have 40 pin connectors. 40 wire cables generally have all the connectors the same color and the ribs are very pronounced. An 80 wire cable generally has the mobo connector blue the other end is black(master postion) and the middle is gray(slave postion). The wires in an 80 wire cable are connected to the 40 pins in a way the the master/slave is determined by the cable and not jumpers on a drive. Which is why with 80 wire you set the jumper to CS/cable select.

[Daydreamer]

Thanks Flanzig for the info on the cable. Was there a reason that the 80 wire cable was produced other than the connectors. Is there a preference of one over the other? Or is it, whatever works?

What if I wanted to Master my CD-ROM on the secondary IDE and master the DVD on the primary IDE. Would there be any benefit to using an 80 wire cable?

I don't want to buy cables that I don't really need.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by Daydreamer Thanks Flanzig for the info on the cable. Was there a reason that the 80 wire cable was produced other than the connectors.

The 80 wire IDE cable was developed to handle the faster burst data transfer rates of ATA 66, ATA 100 and ATA 133. The 40 extra wires help control "cross-talk" interference caused by the faster transfer rates. Go here for a better explanation.

Originally Posted by Daydreamer What if I wanted to Master my CD-ROM on the secondary IDE and master the DVD on the primary IDE. Would there be any benefit to using an 80 wire cable?

No, there are no benefits to using a 80 wire IDE cable with optical drives because their data transfer rate is pretty slow.

Cricket

[glc]

Some burners are ATA66 though and will complain if they are on a 40 wire.

[Daydreamer]

Even if the burner is ATA-66 and doesn't like the cable, my Toshiba CD-ROM didn't work either after I removed the HDD and set the jumper on it to master.

[glc]

You need to try a different cable now - did your burner come with one?

[Daydreamer]

The burner didn't come with one.
I just bought a new cable and tried installing it in all possible configurations. The machine starts up, goes thru the memory test, detects the DVD and the CD-ROM in any configuration I have it in. As the boot sequence continues the PCI listing page appears and usually UPDATE ESCD SUCCESSFULLY appears and the cursor sits there blinking in the lower left hand corner of the monitor.

I tried the DVD and CD-ROM as master/slave on the secondary IDE with the HDD attached to the primary IDE and that worked. But, like I said, as soon as I remove the HDD, it's NFG.

Does it have anything to do with booting from the SATA drive or is it a bios issue?

What next?

[glc]

Leave the DVD and CD connected to the secondary, disconnect the hard drive, go into the bios, and disable the primary IDE controller.

[Daydreamer]

Well that didn't work either. The result was S.O.S.D.D.

This is getting frustrating for something that seems so simple.

[glc]

Okay, let me see if I get this straight - it will not boot with ANY combination if the old hard drive is disconnected? What about with NO optical drives connected? Exactly HOW far does it get in the boot process? Are all 4 IDE's set to AUTO on the main bios screen?

[Daydreamer]

That is correct glc. If either the DVD or my original CD-ROM are connected without the HDD the system freezes after going through the following sequence:
Memory Test
Award Plug and Play Bios Extension v1.0A
Initialize Plug & Play Cards
PNP Init Complete
Trend ChipAway Virus On Guard
Detecting HDD Primary ... none
Detecting HDD Slave ... none
Detecting Secondary ... ASUS DVD
Detecting Decondary Slave ... Toshiba CD-ROM
SiI 3114 SATARAID Bios Version 5.0.35
Copyright 1997-2004 Silicon Image, Inc.
Press or F4 to enter Raid utility

The screen changes to PCI Device Listing ... and a lot of information is displayed about devices and the IRQ'S, Vendor, etc.

UPDATE ESCD SUCCESSFULLY

Blinking cursor is present in the lower left corner of the monitor. This is where it stops!

With everything disconnected execpt the SATA Drive, the system will boot and start up Windows XP.

Yes, the IDE's were all set to AUTO and the Onboard PCI IDE in the Chipset BIO's was set to BOTH.

[glc]

With NO drives connected except SATA, it boots?
With either or both opticals connected - any combination of primary/secondary/master/slave - it will not boot unless the old hard drive is also connected?

Turn off the bios antivirus, please.

List all the devices and IRQ's as listed on the POST screen, please.

[Daydreamer]

With NO drives connected except SATA, it boots? - Correct

With either or both opticals connected - any combination of primary/secondary/master/slave - it will not boot unless the old hard drive is also connected? - This is also Correct.

I turned off the Boot antivirus and performed 3 tests.

Test 1 settings - Boot from SATA and have the HDD as primary master and the DVD primary slave connected to the Primary IDE, and have the ONBOARD IDE set to - DISABLED in the Chipset Bios.

Bus Device # Function # Vendor ID Device ID Device Class IRQ
0 4 2 8086 7112 Serial Bus Controller 14
0 9 0 14F1 1059 Simple COMM. Controller 14
0 10 0 1102 0002 Multimedia Device 15
0 10 1 1102 7002 Input Device NA
0 11 0 1106 3038 Serial Bus Controller 10
0 11 1 1106 3038 Serial Bus Controller 15
0 11 2 1106 3104 Serial Bus Controller 14
0 12 0 1095 3114 Mass Storage Controller 11
1 0 0 10DE 0020 Display Controller 11

Test 2 settings - Boot from SATA and have the HDD as primary master and the DVD primary slave connected to the Primary IDE, and have the ONBOARD IDE set to - BOTH in the Chipset Bios.

0 4 1 8086 7111 IDE Controller 14/15
0 4 2 8086 7112 Serial Bus Controller 9
0 9 0 14F1 1059 Simple COMM. Controller 9
0 10 0 1102 0002 Multimedia Device 5
0 10 1 1102 7002 Input Device NA
0 11 0 1106 3038 Serial Bus Controller 10
0 11 1 1106 3038 Serial Bus Controller 5
0 11 2 1106 3104 Serial Bus Controller 9
0 12 0 1095 3114 Mass Storage Controller 11
1 0 0 10DE 0020 Display Controller 11

Test 3 settings - Boot from SATA and have the DVD primary master connected to the Primary IDE, and have the ONBOARD IDE set to - BOTH in the Chipset Bios.

0 4 1 8086 7111 IDE Controller 14/15
0 4 2 8086 7112 Serial Bus Controller 9
0 9 0 14F1 1059 Simple COMM. Controller 9
0 10 0 1102 0002 Multimedia Device 5
0 10 1 1102 7002 Input Device NA
0 11 0 1106 3038 Serial Bus Controller 10
0 11 1 1106 3038 Serial Bus Controller 5
0 11 2 1106 3104 Serial Bus Controller 9
0 12 0 1095 3114 Mass Storage Controller 11
1 0 0 10DE 0020 Display Controller 11

[glc]

Sorry to drag this out - but this is a tough one. If this is consistent, I assume it booted doing test 1 and test 2, and did not boot with test 3?

Hmm. The bios is enumerating and assigning IRQ's properly. However, it appears that you may have the SATA card in the top PCI slot, that's not a good idea as it will share IRQ with the video card. It appears that you probably have 4 PCI cards - a SATA card, a sound card, a modem, and a USB 2.0 card - correct? If so, and if you have 5 PCI slots, move everything down to leave the top PCI slot open. If you only have 4 slots and you have a full house, move the cards around and try to get the SATA card on its own IRQ. You may have to disable the onboard USB and use just the card. Try changing the bios setting for plug and play OS - if it's enabled, disable it, and vice versa. Try clearing the CMOS and resetting the bios. Turn off the ports you aren't using (LPT, COM1, COM2).

I don't know if all that will fix it, but it's something you should try. With ACPI - and with the latest bios, ACPI works pretty well on that old board - IRQ sharing shouldn't be an issue, but something is hinky here.

A thought - looks like you are in fact using dialup - and a PCI winmodem. I'd be very tempted to get an old ISA hardware modem that can be hardjumpered to a specific COM port and IRQ and set it to COM1, IRQ4. This one is my old standby:

http://www.pacificgeek.com/product.a...2&ID=21350&P=F

[Daydreamer]

Yes glc you are correct. Boot on test 1 & 2, NO boot on test 3.

4 PCI cards are correct. SATA, sound card, modem, and a USB 2.0

The P2B-F has 5 PCI slots and 2 ISA

I moved everything down as you suggested.
Retested, SOS

I am not sure how to clear the CMOS. Reset the bios to what? Defaults?

What if I disable the Modem for testing purposes before I go out and purchase anything else?

What if I just leave the old hard drive in the box? No harm, no foul?
I don't want to leave it if we can find a way to make things work.

Can I go in to My Computer - Device Manager - and Disable the ports I am not using?

[glc]

Clearing the CMOS is done with a jumper or by removing the battery. The jumper should be identified in the manual - some boards don't have a jumper but may have a pair of solder points that need to be bridged with a metallic tool of some sort.

The best way to troubleshoot for conflicts is physically remove the card from the box.

No, you must disable the ports in the bios settings.

[Daydreamer]

So, if I pop the battery out and leave it out for say a minute or so, the CMOS is cleared?

After I clear the CMOS what should I see when I boot up? Will the Bios be set at all of the default settings?

So you are saying to remove the modem and try to boot with SATA and DVD on Primary?

I'm not sure I saw anything in the bios for the ports, but I will take a look.

[glc]

It may take longer than a minute. It will revert everything to factory defaults, you will have to set the date and time plus review all the other settings.

[Daydreamer]

Did you want me to try to boot with the modem removed and the DVD installed on the Primary or Secondary IDE channel?

I forgot to mention that all of these changes of components in and out caused Windows XP to send a re-activation notice a few days ago. It said I had 3 days. Yesterday I tried to re-activate over the internet and I was denied. I had to call Microsoft to get re-activated. The guy I spoke with on the phone said that any time I make a lot of hardware changes I will need to re-activate. Is that normal?

[glc]

Yes, that's normal.

You are, again, just going to have to try all possible combinations till you can draw out a pattern to this. It's just not making sense to me what's happening, and I've been doing this stuff for 15 years. Why the removal of a data hard drive that used to be the boot drive - but was cloned to the new drive - would screw it up sorta could make sense, but with NO IDE devices allowing a good boot shoots that theory down.

Maybe we can go at this a different way. With the optical drive or drives connected - I don't care how, they can be master/slave on either controller or separate or just one (but do it the way you want it to be when you are done) - and the IDE hard drive DISconnected, set the bios boot order to CD first, will it boot with the XP CD? If so, load up the SATA driver with the floppy - press F6 when prompted to install a 3rd party storage driver - and use the repair console. There should be a Windows installation detected, log into it, and type FIXBOOT C: - then type EXIT - and go back into the bios when it reboots and set SCSI first again. Any luck?

[tempus]

Is it possible that he may need to update the BIOS?

[glc]

That's already been done, he's using the latest bios available. I used to have a P2B-F myself, and the latest bios, even though it's officially a beta, is stable. I had a box full of cards too.