A few pre order questions: CPU fan, CPU box,

[nksmfamjp]

What is a good fan for the AMD 1.4 ghz 266 CPU on the Abit KG7 motherboard? This will see some overclocking in the future. I was thinking of the Thermal Lake ORD with the lower speed fan. I think the 7000 rpm fan is too fast for the Abit motherboard for some reason.

Also, I'm looking at buying the CPU as a stand alone part. What are the things that I'm not getting vs. buying the one in the box?

Also, what is the best gaming Video Card, AGP, that I can get now for under $100? I was looking at a Geo Force 2 400 with 64mb of RAM or another one, but I forget the name.

[morriswindgate]

Heatsink and Fan, go here

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/vanteccck6035d.html

Extra Cooling for cards and Case Fans,(I reccomend it as it helps to cool the air around the CPU) Go Here

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/cafcarcool.html

For CPU and Other Cards Go Here

http://192.216.185.10/mwave/Main.hmx?UID=&CID=&Back=

or here

http://www.newegg.com

[Alfie]

The thermaltake heatsinks are not reccommended for overclocking.
The top of the line in cooling ate the Swiftech's,Thermalright's SK6,Thermoengine,Vantec,Globalwin and the old standby Alpha.
If you can stand the noise the Delta 38 fans are the most powerful(if you go that route,try to get the one with the dual power connections,one is 3 wire and the other is 4 wire)
The heatsink that I'm currently using is the Thermalright's SK6 coupled with a Delta 30cfm fan(almost as powerful as the 38,but quieter)
It is also adviseable to use a top quality heatsink compound(Artic silver)and not use the pads that many heatsinks come with.
As far as the cpu,look for the AMD 1 year warranty part,the only difference is it is a stand alone and doesn't come with a fan,if your planning to overclock,it's best to get your own heatsink and fan,anyway.
Another good source for heatsinks is here(you can choose your own fan)
http://www.inflowdirect.com/socketa462.html
A very good video card,that's quite affordable is the Hercules 3D Prophet with the Kyro II chipset.
HTH

[Demosthenes]

I am using the ThermoEngine with the above mentioned Delta "Black Label" fan. It makes plenty of noise I can tell you. But I run ~40 degrees C after playing Quake III and Unreal. I do not know what my max temp is. I do not put much effort into monitoring cooling. I, too, am thinking of overclocking my AXIA. Someone said here that most new 1.2's and up are factory unlocked. Is there any truth in this? Otherwise, I am going to crank the bus up.

Respectfully,

Demosthenes

[nksmfamjp]

Forgive my ignorance. These heatsink fan combos look good, but how do I tell by looking at the heatsink/fan and it's specs whether it will be right for overclocking? I'm in Japan so the same or similar parts may have different names and slightly different specs.

I'll keep the Hercules Prophet card that you mentioned in mind. What about the Geo Force 2 400 64mb video card?

[lovitz]

I just built with a 1.4 T-bird and I used a Volcano 5. it's over clocked to 1.523 ( not my choice ) but it seems to be ok. I always recommend the Globalwin cak38. It's a totally bitchin package.

[mike breck]

Forgive my ignorance. These heatsink fan combos look good, but how do I tell by looking at the heatsink/fan and it's specs whether it will be right for overclocking? I'm in Japan so the same or similar parts may have different names and slightly different specs.

I think the best thing to do is conduct some reaearch and see which of the HSFs that were recomended here ARE available in Japan. Then post your results back here so we can discuss them.

Even if these HSFs are not available in local PC shops in Japan, there must be more specialised online "Overclocking Stores" where you can get them. I would be very suprised if there was not a strong Overclocking community in Japan who buy these products.

Search the Japanese web and see.

[nksmfamjp]

Thanks Mike, I'll pick around and see what I can find. BTW, what is the word for overclock in Japanese. I hope it is obeekuroku! I just thought that you guys might have some specs like heat sink material, fan cfm rating and maybe some basic design dimensions like fin quantity and height. Thanks, I'll tell you what I find. If anyone overclocks in town here it is probably the guy at my local store. He is the only one who knows the quality parts. He has a cooler master dual fan setup on his instore demo machine, but it doesn't seem too strong.

What about micron DDR RAM? Good stuff?

[mike breck]

Sorry nksmfamjp,

I thought you were Japanese and conducting a web search wouldn't be a problem.
But check with the local guy, he might be able to get one for you or knows who sells them. However, the Coolmaster range isn't too good for overclocking.
You'd be wasting your money.

Try this site for benchtest reviews to get a general feeling for CFM, size, fan speed etc and how they affect temps.

http://www.hardocp.com/index.html

You will notice that generally the faster the fan, the lower the temp.

Also, check out Tiretool's latest article on memory on the PC Mechanic Home page. You'll find it very useful if your going to overclock.

[Alfie]

Many of the better heatsinks are made in Japan(Alpha,for example).So,with that in mind,you shouldn't have a problem.
It seems the latest trends lean towards copper being used in their design.
This was originally started by Alpha.
Alpha has a new heatsink coming out for Socket A,this is meant to be the best so far.
it's not available in the U.S.,yet,but is probably available in Japan(where they are made)
Most of the cooling specialists ship internationally,but the cost may not be worth it.

[nksmfamjp]

Thanks guys. I'm going to Akihabara this Saturday. My main goal is to get a few good deals and the best HSF that I can find. Right now, I'm thinking copper bases and fins(without joint), 7000 or 8000 rpm fan, less than 6W, polished based, thin fins and with good heat flow appearance. Does that sound about right? Has any one tried the 60 to 80mm converters and put an 80 mm fan on their heat sink? Seems like that would really help cooling by speeding the air up. Also, has anyone tried one of the ducts to get fresh air from out side the case?

[morriswindgate]

Higher air flow across the heatsink does not necessarily mean better cooling. As with all conductive type of cooling, the cooling media (air) needs to have contact with the area where the heat is removed (Heatsink) for a period of time. If the air is moving to fast, it doesn't transfer the maximum amount of heat from the metal to the air and if moving to fast it can act as an insulating layer.
The best thing is to leave the heatsink fan alone and then concentrate on lowering the temperature inside the case so that the air flowing accross the sink is cooler.
Remember metal does not cool like your skin does, and when cooling metal with air there is no such thing as wind chill factor.

[nksmfamjp]

I'm sorry morriswindgate that I do not have a book here with me at the moment, but under what conditions does inceasing the speed of the medium(air) decrease heat transfer? If I remember right, it always increases heat transfer. I can see how you would get to a point of diminishing returns quite easily, especially if the fan had to create much heat to move the air. Also, compressing the air can raise it's temperature some.(Like in a jet engine)

BTW, the heat sink does experience part of the "wind chill" equation. It depends on how you define "wind chill." For this I will define "wind chill" as:
Wind Chill = Forced Convection Heat Transfer due to the wind + Evaporative Heat Loss due to the evapoation of sweat
My CPU doesn't sweat, I hope.(bad for the electronics! It does cool down due to air being forced over the heatsink.

Has anyone tried the outside air intake idea. I was just thinking that lowering the temperature of the air you blow across the heat sink does wonders for the amount of heat transfer you get. I suppose these cases with fans to the outside over the CPU, basically do this pretty well.

[morriswindgate]

Well let see if I can explain this better. A heatsink fan arrangment is forced conduction, or air, being a fluid comes in contact with the metal of the heatsink and the heatsink transfers heat from itself to the air. To have conductive heat transfer from a solid to a flowing fluid you need two things. The first being a temperature difference and the second being contact between the two for a time period long enough to allow the heat to transfer from one to the other. If you have to high rate a flow across the heatsink, the fluid will transfer heat at a lower rate. And if you generate a high enough flowrate very little heat will be transferred.
Now as far a wind chill, this only happens to living things. And it is due to the effects of evaporation of water, water when evaporated occupies a space 1200 times greater than when in a liquid state. As such the expansion of the liquid to a vapor creates a pressure drop and therefore increases the cooling effect. On inanimate objects this does not work, however if the air is humid and you can create a pressure drop, a fan will do this but not very well due to it's adding of energy to the air flow (Heating), you will make slightly cooler air.
The best way still to cool a computer with air is to get the case interior as close to ambiant as possible. In this way you create a larger differential between the surface of the heatsink and the air (Fluid)

[nksmfamjp]

Morriswindgate,

Realy, I'm not trying to be a blow hard here. Are you saying that you are looking at this as a conductive mode heat transer? If so, I agree totally with what you have said, eveerything. You are right, for conduction, you need temperature difference and contact.

I'm basically looking at this ignoring conduction, becuse with forced convection heat transfer the amount amount of heat transfered by convection is usually several orders of magnitude greater than that transfered by conduction. Wrong or right, I have usually ignored conduction in a problem like this. I think it is safe to do that.

Next is evaporation. Basically you sound like you understand this well enough too, but can you explain why it would not apply to a metal part with water on it? I cannot remember all of the details, but I think the reason that evaporative cooling is usually limited to people, is that people keep sweating therefore continue to cool down if conditions allow it. A piece of metal just drys up.

Bak to HSF's, have you tried the duct?

[morriswindgate]

Getting back to the original question, I haven't tried a duct, never needed it.
I have a GlobalWIN CAK38 Copper Heatsink with a delta fan on it, Next I have a Front Case fan blowing in. I have the card cooler fan I mentioned in the other post on the card rack. I then have an Enermax Power supply which has two fans with one sucking directly over the top of the CPU. I also have two Antec Hard Drive coolers for the two hard drives I have mounted in 5 1/4 bays.

This is on a machine running

1.2 ghz Athlon 266FSB
512 PC2100 DDR
GForce Video
Promise ATA100 Contoller Card
Santacruz Sound
Linksys NIC
Advansys SCSI
CD_ROM
CD_RW
Three 30 GIG ATA100 7200RPM Hard drives
One 60 GIG ATA100 7200RPM Hard Drive

With all of this my CPU stays around 40 at Idle and around 55 at load. AMD states that the max temp for this chip is 98c

I do not think that you have to go to extremes to get proper cooling.