WHAT P3 550 DO I HAVE?

[fredwest]

Hi,
I am curious as to what letters come after P3 550. I've heard and tried a lot of o/cing with this chip. However the multiplier is locked to 5.5. This limits o/cing quite significantly IMO. Each bump up of the FSB increases the PCI bus and AGP speeds. Without the ability to change the multiplier settings the amount of o/cing is limited.

Presently I run at 632Mhz and 114 FSB (I think). I can push it further but 133 is 'Game Over'. I'm not TOO concerned about the whole o/cing thing but just curious as to WHAT 550 I have. My board is a SOYO 6BA+IV. The board is fantastic but what of the CPU??

This is just a query I have on my CPU. I have no problems at all (unless I push it to 133....AHHHHHH). 133 equals 'remove the case cover and reset J1'.

FYI, a 'case cover' is a three-sided metal HOUSING that slides over the midi tower to ENCLOSE all the components. This may come as a shock to a lot of you but I spared no expense with this baby. You can mail me for the details of the covers dimensions etc .

Hehehehe....


Yours

Declan (aka fredwest)

[This message has been edited by fredwest (edited 05-30-2000).]

[Smoke24]

Fred,
If you will download Sisoft Sandra and then go to system info it will tell you what you have. If it has 512 cache it's a Katmai and if it has 256 it's a coppermine.

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Take Smoke's advice as fact if it works and fiction if it don't!!!

[HAL9000]

You should be able to get that info on boot up. The first screen will either show PIII 550 (which has the 512Kb cache) or PIII 550E (256Kb cache), if not, then on the second screen, check the cache size and that will give you your answer.

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If it ain't broke, you're not pushing hard enough!

[Hopper]

The boot up will tell you if your bios supports it properly. Round here most people throw the cover out with the box. Wha good is it, No handle.

[fredwest]

Hi guys,
Well on boot up I see 'P3 550 at 632Mhz'. This is just as listed......no letters after the 550 etc. I think I have a Katmai.

I had the case open today and read the specs on the CPU. It was something like '550/512/100/2.2'. I'm not too sure of the figures as I only saw it in passing and was just testing a CD-Rom drive. YEAH....I know I should have taken note but I didn't! Taking the case off is a bit of an adventure in itself.

I think it said '512' and '100' (FSB??).


ACTUALLY, STOP RIGHT THERE! I'LL FIND OUT THE ABOVE INFO AND POST AGAIN. I WON'T WASTE YOUR TIME ON "I THINK IT SAID...."

I'm getting too bloody lazy.......


Yours

Declan (aka fredwest)

[This message has been edited by fredwest (edited 05-31-2000).]

[fredwest]

Hi,
I think it's a Katmai...? Is this the only version that's multiplier locked?

If not then is there a significant price difference in mine and the 'unlocked multiplier' one?

The plot thickens.


Yours

Declan (aka fredwest)

[Smoke24]

Sounds like you do have a Katmai which is OK but based on the older .25 micron die. It may or may not overclock as well as a Coppermine, you're at the luck of the draw with any of them to get a real good overclocker. All PIII's are multiplier locked that I've ever heard of. There is still very little difference in the prices of the two. Maybe a few $ more for Coppermines. What memory do you run? With good quality PC133 it will usually help the overclocking a bit. I also don't think your Soyo board will support the Coppermine. I have a Soyo 6VBA that won't so I am running a 533/133 Katmai on it clocked to 620, which is all the FSB the board has.

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Take Smoke's advice as fact if it works and fiction if it don't!!!

[RJ]

Yes, it is a Katmai.
You said you read:
550/512/100

550 is the speed. As you said, you have a PIII 550.
Then comes the cache. It's 512 KB.
The Coppermine has 256KB, the Katmai 512.
So you have a Katmai.

RJ

[This message has been edited by RJ (edited 06-02-2000).]

[fredwest]

Hi guys,
Thanks for the info .

But how can I push the CPU a bit more? I'm at 632Mhz & 114 FSB at the moment but the AGP and PCI speeds are quite high.

If I push it to 133 then my AGP goes to 88 (or there abouts) and the PC dies. I have PC100 RAM (2 X 64) and it runs fine at FSB speeds over 100 but NOT 133.

I know my CPU is multiplier locked. However, given that fact, is it my RAM or my AGP/PCI speed or both that are the limitations here? I can't see a way to o/c more than 114/118 as the AGP/PCI speeds keep on rising and there is a 'wall' called 133 FSB.

I've said before that o/cing isn't a major issue with me. But I like to get aa much as I can out the CPU.....just for fun....and because I can .

So if I have a Katmai would PC133 RAM help me reach a 133 FSB or will the VERY high AGP/PCI port speeds ALWAYS limit my progress?

I've been to 133FSB ONCE BEFORE and the PC died. I haven't gone there again. The board supports it but does the CPU, RAM, AGP/PCI settings ALLOW IT (In REAL terms)??


Yours

Declan (aka fredwest)

[Charliey]

Its really hard to tell if its the RAM or the AGP speed. What brand of RAM is it? If its high quality, then it would Probably do 133fsb.

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-Charlie

[Carl Price]

Fred, I believe that bus and agp speeds return to default when the fsb speed is divisible by 33. In other words at 100 and 133 fsb those speeds are the same as at 66.
Please correct me if I am wrong fellows.

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Carl

I tell my son that grades are a reflection of his attitude on life. If he is willing to accept mediocrity in grades then he will be willing to accept mediocrity the rest of his life.
http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=eta239

[Mattman]

I've never heard of it doing that, Carl. Something on your motherboard probably can't handle the 133mhz FSB speed. My guess is that either the AGP video card or the RAM coughs up a long once it hits that pleateau. What video card and RAM are you using?

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Life without computers would be like the world without war.

[Smoke24]

Fred,
You should be able to get more stability at higher speeds with some good PC133. It seems to me that if you can get it into the 133 and above area that it should automatically adjust the AGP and PCI buses to the proper speed. You may even have a feature in the BIOS to do that, some boards do.

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Take Smoke's advice as fact if it works and fiction if it don't!!!

[Hopper]

Call me a cheapskate. I'm running the Celeron II 566 (coppermine) in my setup. It didn't want to overclock till I flashed the BIOS and installed "Rain". Now, it does 850 no problem. I am using PC 133 mem on a ASUS P3B-F board.

[fredwest]

Hi guys,
Well here more info:

1) The RAM is Kingston. It's for a DELL GX1 500 and above (P III's). Went to the Kingston site and it didn't say if it was PC100 or not.....but I would presume that it must be if it's for a P3 system.

2)My video is an OEM DELL 8Mb AGP. The model is an STB nVidia ZX.

Yes I know there's a lot of DELL in this PC but I tried them and they work. I had them so I used them. The money I saved got me the mobo and the P3 .

Stuff is quite expensive here in Ireland.....ya know?

Anyway where would you guys point the finger? Is it the DELL stuff. The RAM was brand new and the AGP was donated from a friends machine when he upgraded.


Yours

Declan (aka fredwest)

[This message has been edited by fredwest (edited 06-03-2000).]

[glc]

Your AGP clock is locked at 2/3 FSB at 100 MHz FSB and higher. The Riva ZX might be puking itself. According to the quickstart guide I just downloaded for your board, the PCI bus is somewhat adjustable to keep it between 30 and 41 MHz. From 100 to 120 FSB its a divide by 3, and above that it varies. I don't know about the Highpoint Ultra 66 controller on your board, but the CMD on the Asus CUBX gets flaky above 37. Dig out the chart on page 13 of your quickstart guide and review the numbers. Start by removing all cards and put an ISA video card in. Move your hard drive to the standard Ultra 33 controller. Bump up the FSB one tick at a time till it dies. You have just reached your *memory* or *cpu* limit. Now, you can put the AGP video card back in and repeat these steps, starting with 100. Now you will find out the video card limit. Put the ISA video card back in and repeat with the hard drive on the Ultra 66 and you will find out *its* limit. You may have to skip forward to get a good reading on this because of the PCI speed variability above 120 and the Ultra 66 controller is going to be driven by the PCI bus. Using this process you should be able to get a good idea what is the limiting component and just how high you can go. Hope this helps!

[fredwest]

Hi glc,
Thanks for the info . However (isn't there always a 'However'!) I don't have any ATA66 drives at the moment and I only have PCI video cards (apart from the AGP in this thing).

You're correct that the PCI bus speed is held between 30 and 41. However this does not help AGP.

Going to 133 FSB has the AGP at 88. I don't know if it the card that then fails or the RAM.....or BOTH.

What about using a PCI video card (seeing as how the PCI speed CAN'T be pushed beyond its' limit)? Then try going to 133FSB. If it then dies then could I assume that it's the RAM that just ain't up to the job.

However how do I overcome an AGP speed of 88 with the FSB at 133? That speed (88) is WAY too high IMHO. Nothing would run at that speed...?

Please give me some more cud to chew on guys and THANKS......


Yours

Declan (aka fredwest)

[Mattman]

I found this quote in "Showdown at 133mhz, Part 2", A Tom's Hardware article:

As overclocking became more and more popular and after PC133 SDRAM for a memory clock of 133 MHz became available, people started running 440BX beyond spec at 133 MHz FSB. This procedure has the following issues.

--The front side bus of the CPU is running 133 MHz instead of 100 MHz, which is no problem even for processors marked for 100 MHz FSB, but certainly not for the latest Coppermine-CPUs that are supposed to run at this clock.
--The 'North Bridge' of BX is also running at 133 MHz instead of 100 MHz and thus out of spec. However, this does hardly do any harm to the chipset, it doesn't even get significantly hotter.
--The PCI-bus can still run at 33 MHz clock, because BX is able to divide the FSB-clock by 4 and 133 / 4 = 33.
--The 'South Bridge' of BX is not touched by this procedure, because it is connected to the north bridge via the PCI-bus. As long as the PCI-bus runs in spec, the south bridge does that too, so that I/O-ports, the integrated IDE controller and all the other components hosted by the south bridge continue to work normally.
--The only real problem with a BX overclocked to 133 MHz FSB is the AGP. AGP is supposed to run at 66 MHz and BX is able to ensure that by dividing the 100 MHz FSB by 1.5. Unfortunately Intel decided against the inclusion of a divider of 2 as well, which is why the AGP is doomed to running at 133 / 1.5 = 88.8 MHz. Running the AGP 33% beyond spec can produce a fair amount of trouble with AGP-graphics cards. Some have no problem, but many will simply freeze the whole system as soon as you switch to a 3D-application that is using the AGP. Fortunately our reference graphics card with NVIDIA's GeForce256-chip is not troubled by 89 MHz AGP-clock at all, so that the testing with a BX-board at 133 MHZ FSB was a piece of cake. The system remained absolutely stable, and you can believe me that I mean what I say, different to so many other overclocking-horney people, who think that a system that needs rebooting only three times/day is already 'rock stable'.


Getting a decent video card and PC133 RAM should be enough to allow you to reach 133mhz. I'd bet money that Tom isn't lying when he says the Geforce will run at 89mhz no problem. The whole article can be found at http://www.tomshardware.com/mainboar...308/index.html .

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Life without computers would be like the world without war.

[glc]

If you have a *good* PCI video card it *should* survive 41 MHz........give it a try too. Mattman is right...its either your video card or your ram.....I assume you have backed off on the memory timings a bit....and definitely are NOT trying to run it at CAS2?

[fredwest]

Hi guys,
First off, thanks a LOT Mattman for taking the time to post this info. It's really appreciated and has answered a lot of questions about the AGP thing .

glc, (everyone else too!) I have 4Mb S3 ViRGE PCI and a 16Mb Blaster Banshee PCI that I could use instead of the AGP. My CAS latency is set to 3. I had it at 2 when I first built this thing but the BIOS suggested setting it to 3....I would assume that the Blaster is a 'good' card at higher than spec PCI slot speeds.

Is this the case? Has anyone run a Blaster PCI at 133 FSB. I need to know because if I use it, and push the FSB to 133 AND the PC dies, then how will I know if it's the card or RAM or both (AGAIN!).....you see what I mean???

I suppose it could be a question of 'Will PC100 RAM run at 133?.

Regardless, I'll try the Blaster later this afternoon and see what happens. But I'll see if anyone responds FIRST before I do it.

Thanks a mill guys for all the help and info .


Yours

Declan (aka fredwest)

[This message has been edited by fredwest (edited 06-04-2000).]