PC Chips Motherboards

[Yard_Don]

Hi all, I have noticed that a PCChips motherboard
have been constantly bashed and was wondering what's
the basis for this bashing.
I am from Jamaica and I assemble machines for many
clients, with an exchange rate of 50J$ to 1USD I have
to fnd the best value for money systems and I have found
that the pcchips mobos offer this.
I have used the 754 to the new 830 and 817 which in my book
coupled with DDR gives u exceptional value for money.
While some of these motherboards I would not use for myself
personally(that's because I am into OC etc), what's wrong
with giving them to someone who only
checks email, do minor surfing and is on a tight budget ?.
I therefore believe that when we discredit boards we should
put it in context as it can sometimes discredit people like
myself who make a few bucks from recommending these to clients.
TIA
YD

[HAL9000]

Well, in my share of time with retail, I have come up with the following equation.

cheap parts = tight screw customer
tight screw customer = no profit
no profit = high stress for me

therefore: cheap parts = high stress

Deal with cheap parts long enough and you will soon find that all it does is attract all the tightwads around. These people expect you to do everything for nothing and that charging anything more than $5/hour on labour is absolutely outrageous. Then when you refuse to do anything for them based on this, they go around trashing your name all over the place.

I have found that cheap parts such as the PC Chips board may give good value to the customer, but what about to yourself with unacceptable failure rates which mean return shipping costs, lost time and money due to fixing machines under warranty?

My clients quite often bring in quotes from bargain basement places all prepared to bitch me out on my high price, then I sit them down and show them why mine is more. Finally, I ask, "if this is such a good deal, then why are you back here?"


A machine built with cheap parts may work, but does it perform and perform flawlessly? You make the choice, a Mercedes, or a car built on Junkyard Wars. Which would you rather own?

[Yard_Don]

I am glad to say that I have so far not have any problems with the PcChips mobos that I have sold.
I agree though that u get what u pay for but my problem is everyone bashses these boards but I am yet to hear specifically what's wrong with them.
It should be noted that AMD has PcChips mobos on it's recommended list of boards.

Economics has to play a role in deciding what I give a customer, there is no point in giving a single mother etc a computer with ASUS M/B and ATI graphics card when all she wants is to have a computer in the house. What do I do then, I give her an integrated system and go with a larger monitor. My experience in building systems shows half the problems I get are normally software or user errors.
YD

[HAL9000]

Do you mind me asking how long your have been using PC Chips motherboards?

As for PC Chips being on the AMD approved list, so are Austin and Deer power supplies. Just ask the resident power supply guru, Toaster, about how they are borderline dangerous. Ask Jenni about the smoke coming from her power supply in this thread.

Just because it's on the recommended list doesn't mean it's good.

[shecky981]

Originally posted by HAL9000 a Mercedes, or a car built on Junkyard Wars. Which would you rather own?

ummm......


can i get the mercedes with a homemade catapult or flamethrower?

[Toaster]

Howdy,
I would venture that you answered your own question as to "why" we bash what we bash. It is concensous that PC-Cheaps is on the bottom of the food chain.
Me, like many others have been working with computers since the beginning.
(OK, I'm an old phart I confess)
PC-Cheaps have ALWAYS left a rather disgusting taste in my mouth.
They are ill preforming, ill supported and highly problematic.
I guess the BIG problem I see over and over again with PC-Cheaps is RTC errors.
Next comes floppy failures that seem random.
PC-Cheaps has been around since the "386" days. Their primary customer is the one with the stiffest wallet muscles. (aka: buget minded super hero)
Here on the 'Mech, we see post after post of folks having problems with PC-Cheaps based system boards. The bottom line is quite simple and so very true:
"you pays your money, you takes your chances"
**and**
"You get what you pay for"

I used to rate SIS right up (down?) there with PC-Cheaps. It seems SIS is making a half arsed attempt at overcoming this legacy. While too far down on the food chain for me, they still are "attempting" to make a better product.


You stated that you would't own one for your reasons. These reasons and those I mentioned many folks here avoid them like the black death.


On a personal note, Selling something to someone that the seller doesn't believe in says MORE then enough to send me screaming to the door.

[Jenni]

Aopen makes good boards at a good price. They are on the "cheap" end of the scale, their service is good (email anyway, never returned one yet), and you don't get the PC Chips headaches. Almost all of the local PC shops around me carry Aopen/Acer stuff, with a few others carrying Shuttle, another "value" name.

[mike breck]

Just a little aside about people with PC-Chips mobos.

While I agree with the consensus on the forum about PC-Chip's quality, I have noted in a few circumstances over the last year (not in this thread), people being almost chastised and ridiculed for having one.

I disagree with this practice and behaviour. If people are open and trusting enough to give their specs on PC Mechanic, then we should have the manners to educate and inform them in a positive and polite way.

Telling someone that their system is "crap" or "rubbish" because they have a PC-Chips mobo, or any other part we don't like, is more likely to offend people and make them defensive. I have seen a few examples where people have taken the criticism personally, because as we all know, PC's are pretty personal things.

The bottom line is that no one likes to be told they were sold a lame-duck or made an ill-informed choice. So perhaps a little more diplomacy might soften the blow and point them in the right direction for future buys/builds.

[Michael]

Very well said Mike! My first mb was a Matsonic SS7, which was just a rebadged PC-Chips. I ran that board for a few months (at least) and I must say it was quite an enlightening experience (I was a total newbie to computers and gained a world of troubleshooting experience trying to stabilize that board). I finally sold it with an AMD k6-233 cpu to my brother (a certified tech) who gave it to my dad (dad has since taken my brother out of his will.....LOL)!!!!

[Jenni]

In defense of PCChips, some of their stuff is ok. My brother had a "bookPC" that had one of their Intel 810 MB's with onboard everything in it, and it was stable, and overclockable, and never gave him a moment's trouble. His girlfriend still has it, and it is still running just fine.

When you start matching up low-end components, then you have big trouble. For instance, that Deer power supply, plus my low end Aopen MB, equalled not only a fried PS, but a fried MB (voltage regulators not able to handle the spike the Deer put out when it blew), and a fried stick of RAM.

[Nuclear Krusader]

I'm with HAL and Toaster on this one. The arguments HAL uses are the same I use with my customers. I've only sold three PCChips mobos and "all" of them gave some kind of headache, from missing COM ports to completely useless machine.

Rather than to give my clients those things they think they want, I try to "educate" them. Tell them why this system is better, and the such. I think that my work's first mission is to detect my client's needs and then provide a solution. A lot of my competition down here just don't do it, they just keep cranking out machines that they think will do for most of the people. The only thing they ask the customer is what CPU they want and how much RAM and HD space they want. So many people down here knows very little of PCs when they decide to make the investmen on one, they are affraid to ask and the sellers don't teach them, they just want to sell them the cheapest PC. PCChips mobos run rampant down here.

After havin' those issues with PC Cheaps mobos I've been reluctant to sell one again. I prefer not to sell it. Even if it means the customer will end up buyin' with my competition. OK, I don't earn any money but also I keep away from the aspirin jar.

On a personal note, Selling something to someone that the seller doesn't believe in says MORE then enough to send me screaming to the door.

You know, the first thing I ask myself when a client pays me a visit to purchase a system is: Would I buy this machine for myself? If the answer is no, then I don't offer it.

My equation is:
Quality components = Flawless performance
Flawless performace = Happy customer
Happy customer = People's recomendations
People's recomendations = More money for me

[glc]

Yard_Don: I can relate to your position very well. I have to come up with "budget" solutions for my customers too - and PC Chips just doesn't cut the mustard from a reliability, performance, and compatibility standpoint. For the average user - unless they are hardcore gamers - an integrated solution works very well, as long as it's HIGH QUALITY. There are plenty of manufacturers that offer reasonably priced integrated boards that are a heck of a lot more reliable and stable than PC Chips. A lot of the highly regarded motherboard manufacturers have "price leader" micro-ATX integrated boards in their lineup these days for this very reason. We have had very good luck with Shuttle and MSI micro boards with both Via (KLE133, PLE133) and Intel (i810, i815) chipsets, and Intel themselves just came out with their very own i815 B-step based micro board. There are better places to cut corners than the motherboard - it's just too important to overall system quality and stability.

[DFastLane]

I haven't seen any failure rates lately. Has PC-Chips made any improvements in their quality control? I know it was bad earlier. Is there a place that keeps track of those kinds of figures?

I think that those that have been burned by the PC-Chips boards will have that opinion planted in their minds for a while. It doesn't mean that they aren't making better stuff now - I really don't know. Based on track record, though, it makes sense to go with a company that has put out products with consistent quality.

[redbaron_snoopy]

Just curious, in what other names does PC Chips surfaces out as ?
What I know so far are Pine & Matsonic. Any others ?

[Yard_Don]

First let mw qualify.
I said I would not use a PCChips mobo period I only said that for what I wanted to do it's inapproriate. I watch movies on my computer etc and I do some overcloking etc, ocassional ripping so I use a non integrated system.
I must confess I beleive their 817 mobo is a good one we should check out the specs.

I am in the business of providing solutions and If PC Chips offers that solution then what's wrong with recommending it.
The problems that were mentioned, I am happy to say I have not experienced and my supplier one of the largest in Latin America and the Caribbean does not seem to have a problem with them and so do my colleagues we have sold tousands of these boards and they work.
They were one of the few companies I saw that offered a mobo with DDR and 266FSB.
I mentioned that 1USD = 50J$ which means if I offer a client a mobo that costs 120 USD and add cpu case etc I would start producing systems beyond the price of a DELL etc, what would be my advantage ?.
I have used the other boards MSI, Bio Start and they all give problems and if I remember correctly PCChips I think may have teamed with ECS to start producing boards.

I think we need to be practical and realise that an investment in a computer should not be like buying an house afterall, if we follow moore's law in less that 12 months it will be absolete.
Thanks to all that replied it has been very intersting.

p.s. A lot of mobos were mentioned as good subsitutes but in Jamaica not all mobos are imported by my supplier and I have to work with what I have and the ASUS etc are EXPENSIVE.

[morriswindgate]

Yard_Dog you might wanna keep the link below since you are using PC Chips


http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q3998142/pcchips/

[Toaster]

Hello folks,
In response to "mike beck" regarding users response to those that use PC-Cheaps system boards:

Mike, in some instances, unfortunately, you are correct. To this I must confess.
I can say however, that folks here don't go to lengths to bash "existing" equipment but we do suggest that "PC-cheaps" is not ones best system board.
Many times, a user reports that they are looking into buying a low end board such as these. To this, most reply to try for another type of system board.
I myself, post advisories on items that can actually cause threat to life and limb but I do not advise "not" to buy something thats just problematic.
However, many folks post that they seek an opinion on a particular board.
If the user suggests that a system board utilizing PC-Cheaps is being considered, I and many others try to advise them why "not" to consider them.


IMHO, these lower end system boards are intended for the "uneducated" user that assumes all system board chipsets perform equally. Such a user would/could be easily impressed by the number of options available. In the end, they all come to the realization that "all-in-one" system boards are often problematic and a down right bear to upgrade.

I would ask "yard-don" for a price comparison of all system board available to him. Please list the prices of such boards and the exchange rate.
I suggest your vendor might be taking advantage of you and your situation.

[Alfie]

One must consider PcChips has been around awhile and is the largest producers of motherboards worldwide,they hold this lead as they also produce many inexpensive boards,do they work,many times,yes,Are they stable?
If minimum pressure is put on them,sometimes yes.
At the same time their quality control is at a minimum,as they are cheap boards they also are made with the cheapest parts,this above all else leads to their poor reputation.
When you get a good one ,hey it may be stable,could last awhile,but unfortunetley for every good one,theirs a bad one.
It seems PcChips may have improved on their Athlon solution,because of the power draw,manufacturers could no longer get away with cheap controllers and parts.
Still couldn't reccommend them due to past experiences,but still wouldn't mind trying one of their newer boards,just to see how stable they are.
See how fast i could fry it
Still got a Deer power supply sitting on the shelf!
Could conceiveably put together the most screwed up computer to date!
What Mike says is true,many times people forget their manners,instead of that motherboard,device,chipset,etc.is crap,why not try,You may have made an unwise decision in your choice,but let's solve your problem anyway, you sh**thead
That may not work either.
Happy New Year,all!
No offense intended!

[Jenni]

redbaron_snoopy---Companies that Sell PC Chips Boards as Their Own:
Ability
Amptron
Aristo
BNS-Computer
Eagle Max
Elpina
Eurone
Fittec
Houston Technologies
Matsonic
Minstaple
PC Ware / Alton
PC Wave
Picame
Pine
Protac
Skywell
Sybercom
Talent Union
Zerus

(List copied from Motherboards.org)

There may be others too. I have heard that Biostar is a PCChips company too, can someone confirm that?

[Confused]

I got to chime in and say I wholeheartdly agree with Mike. I've seen too many times on this forum where someone has a problem and is already feeling bad enough. Then someone tells him what a Dip he was for buying that piece of crap without offering any constructive observations for resolution. This is a forum to offer and seek help, not belittle people. Sometimes people buy what they can afford, avaialble or just get caught up in the moment and make a mistake. I believe it is for the more experienced and knowledgeable users of this forum to help and not to belittle, for those that don't know to keep quite, and for the moderators to enforce it. Lawyer Ron's signature says it very well; "To speak ill of others is a dishonest way of praising ourselves"

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I try and I hope that if I'm ever caught putting someone down rather than trying to help, that I will be bought to task for it.
Chas

[morriswindgate]

OK Most of the problems that left a bad taste in peoples mouths with PC Chips was the Socket Super 7 that was a fully intergrated board (Video, Sound, LAN, Modem) and honest to goodness they were a pain. But dealing with it taught me one real important item, I do not want any intergration on a board if I can get one. No built-in Modem, No Built-in LAN, would love it if the boards did away with OnBoard Sound, and I will not even touch OnBoard Video.
The other drawback to these boards was that they were sold under differant names, but these resellers did a really poor job of giving even driver support. I mean if you could identify the board the downloads were slow or did not work. And finally, they used SIS chips and I won't touch them also, after all the onboard video update was in the form of a TSR of all things instead of a real update. Most of the problems that I had with this board was related to conflicts with the SIS Chip and a sound blaster card.
This board was sold by Matsonic and I do not know if it had have been a PC Chips branded board if it would have been better, but I doubt it.
The fact that they sold these things to anybody and did not demand a certain level of support from those companies (after all it was their name that was being associated with the problems) has made me believe that the end user is of little concern to PC CHIPS and they will not get a single dollar from me (Nor will anything using an SIS chip) even if they sell one of their boards for that dollar.

[morriswindgate]

I also need to add in, that like Lawyer Ron and Confused said, we are here to help people and most of the time they did not even realize the problems with these boards, but they spent the money and they deserve our help to get it straighten out. Even as bad as the Super 7 was, if you use the video, sound, modem and LAN that came on the board they will do a decent job for most people.

[mike breck]

Hi all,

Let me make it perfectly clear that I was not implying that you Toaster, or anyone else in this post, behaved in such a way. Most members are helpful and curteous at PC Mechanic and would not go out of their way to put someone down (unless they deserved it).

My point concerns some newcomer who posts a problem, which may or may not be related to their PC Chips mobo, and gets told their mobo is "crap" or "rubbish". Then it's open day on PC Chips. Good fun for those concerned, I'm sure, but hardly very helpful or friendly to the newcomer.

While, I think PC Chips bashing is perfectly acceptable amoung regular members, who are "in the know", I believe it doesn't cost anything for some members to be a little bit more diplomatic about a newcomer's system.

That's what seperates PC Mechanic from "script kiddies" forums...

u no wot i mean dude!!!!!!!

[Hpro]

Jenni -
include
ECS and Biostar.. there as well - just to make it easy = everything what comes under ELITE SYSTEMS.. it the same shabby manufacturer..

Mike nice to see you in the New Year here also - missed you..
As for PC-CRAP - sorry the expression , the kid has a name so no problem to call it by the name, there are two differend things on here -
1.To swear about PC-Chips, ONLY some of the Techs doing sometimes ..
2.To swear about PC-Chips, but then as well giving information and possible way to a FIX - I would choose the latter one - even sometimes it's a waste of time as there ain't much to fix on thos kind of baord.. but if you read my SIG then you will know the answer..

So in fact I think that it's nothing more than correct to point the newcomber to the fact = that in fact PC-Chips is a low end board.. I don't see anything wrong with that one..

Mike let me ask you one question - Oh this one goes out to all

Why does PCMECH exist? And why do all the other Message boards and online help sites exist?

There is a simple answer for this.. tell me!

[mike breck]

So in fact I think that it's nothing more than correct to point the newcomber to the fact = that in fact PC-Chips is a low end board.. I don't see anything wrong with that one..

...and I couldn't agree more, Hpro. It all depends on the way it done.

I was referring about your first scenario, where someone bashes the newcomers system in a confrontational way, without helping or giving advice.

Anyway, as I've already said, I'm not accusing anyone here of doing that. So stand down everyone.

Please understand, I am not defending PC Chips mobos: I am defending the people who use them (whether through lack of knowledge or ill-informed advice) and then come here looking for help. In most cases, they don't know any better, and it really comes as a shock and a dissapointment to them when they are told they've been sold a low-grade component.

Like I said, no one likes told being told they had bad judgement or they have been taken for a ride.

My view is it doesn't cost anything to be nice to people and use a bit of informative diplomacy. Of course, I understand some people will, for what they think the best of reasons, tell it bluntly "as it is". Unfortunately, we all know how easily the written word can be misinterpreted by someone else and considered an insult.

Regular members get to know each others style of writing and therefore, on the whole, do not take offence at apparent bluntness or a bit of fun-poking. However, new visitors do not have this yardstick and take everything at face value.

Now to answer your question Hpro...could it be...there are too many PC Chips mobos out there?

I was only joking, so don't lynch me.

[fatboyjim]

Geez you don't know how many hours a few years back I spent on http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q3998142/pcchips/ looking for stuff for my old PCChips motherboard (you name it - drivers, bios etc etc)

But as for the board itself, It wasn't that bad. Pine Tech 702 I believe. Ran our P133 very well (this is back in the days when 16MB RAM was on 2 8MB 72 pin EDO SIMMS and cost 45 quid)

Troubleshooting experience is a big bonus though, if you're interested in how things work: buy yourself a PC Chips board. Hours of fun trying to get it to work when it stops


Thanks again,

[Hpro]

Yes Mike - exactly - because of Manufacturer Groups like Elite Systems..but the Main reason is somewhere else also - if everyone who buys a computer would be bound to one of two things then we would have much less work

1.Forced to read the usermanual - at least 5 times or
2.Passing a test similar you have to make to drive a car..

[SteveAH10]

I have a question. I am fairly new to the area of building a PC. I take it that the Asus board is considered to be good equipment. What other makes wuld everyone consider to be worthy of building a good, reliable system around?
Steve

[LawyerRon]

Hi Steve,
I like Soyo's Intel boards. Other good brands are Epox, Abit, MSI.

[mike breck]

2.Passing a test similar you have to make to drive a car..

lol...you're a hard man Hpro.

I must send a letter to Big Bill Gates. I'm sure MS would love to enforce such testing at a reasonable fee. It could be tied to product activation on XP. If you don't pass the online test, then XP doesn't activate. I think this idea could get me a good job at MS.

I would suggest the main reason why so many help sites exist is that many people like jawing about PCs, learning something new, and helping others.

If everyone had A+ certification then I would have to spend more time playing golf or doing DIY around the house.

What always impresses me is the global PC fraternity is almost like a brotherhood where people give their time, help and advice, freely, in an altruistic fashion.

That consultation will be fifty bucks please.