Newbie to build comp

[Goog]

Hey!

Whats up, my name is Marc, im 16 (or will be in a few weeks) and I've got some money saved up, I was thinking of spending it on an xbox.. but I'd rather build my own computer..

I read the pcmech tut on building your own comp, and I really want to do it, even if its not going to save me much money, more for the experience. Although I don't have it all yet, I'll be willing to spend about.. erm 600 bucks.. depending on whats needed.. I could probably stretch it to 700.

A major problem is that I don't know any local "techies" around here, or even any local small computer stores. If I bought anything locally, not online, it would be from like.. circuit city or some big store like that. If I mess up, this forum will probably be the place I come to ask about it, since there's literally nobody I could turn to for help in real life.

I'm worried about getting into a jam or something, or mucking something up, you know? I also don't know what good online stores to buy stuff from, this here computer I bought from a place I found through www.pricewatch.com, called CyberPower PC, based in California (I live in new york). It was an ok company. Nothing real special, though.

I'm defenitely not averted to taking the case off my pc.. I've installed some internal modems, cd-rws, and stuff.. but nothing real heavy duty.

Basically, what I want to know is - Should I go for it and build this comp? Any advice/experience would be greatly appreciated?

Since I will be ordering most stuff online, I wont see any of it before I order it.. for example, in the pcmech tutorial on building your own comp, it says to check the case to make sure the motherboard will fit into it nicely and wont block any pci expansion slots and the like, but I wont see either the motherboard OR the case until after I order it..

I've been reading posts around here, and I see certain online retailers mentioned.. I was planning on buying my stuff from random stores listed on http://www.pricewatch.com because they are so cheap.. is that a good idea or what? Do any of you have any experience with pricewatch..?

Well, thanks a lot for your help, I reaaallllly appreciate any advice I can get! This is probably the best resource of people I could find on the internet for this topic..

Oh yea, the comp I want to build is defenitely high-end, like probably 1.9ghz or so.. amd xp or intel p4 chip.. whatever is the best and cheapest I suppose.. And linux compatible for sure.. I have an old comp running redhat right now, but the modem and sound card are incompatible (or I'm too dumb to get them to work).

Thanks a TON for any help!

[highrisemech]

I think maybe you should try www.mwave.com these folks will configure your board
and test it before it is sent to you. Should you build that is a question you should answer. Can you do it. Sure you can.
another site to go to www.newegg.com
You should get some posts from
other members regarding quality parts to use.

[Goog]

Ok, yea, I feel pretty confident I could build a pc. Now I guess its time to start.. I just feel.. so.. I don't know how to express it.. naive, I guess? I have no experience, so I'm just going to go out and spend all my money on this **** that I really just think is good and have never used or had anyone tell me was good..

OK Thats fine. Thanks for the links..

Just one more lil question.. I've never used a dual processor comp, but I Assume its far superior to a single-processor comp? and the only difference is that it has two processors? But what else, I have to buy a different kind of case and mobo?

[highrisemech]

I never built a daul processor unit myself Usually I mess with Celerons.
I really think you should look at a SOYO Dragon board,Antec case.
Look at the ATHLON XP line of boards. Stay away from ECS boards.
Asus and Abit are quality boards. Any ATX mid tower case should be good but get a quality power supply like Antec or Enermax. Also read this post from
Hal9000

[jkook]

Marc, I'm new to this forum but my advise is go for it !! It sounds like your well infomed but need to do a little more home work before you select your components . Start with the CPU then the mother board then the case followed by the rest of the components. Keep researching then ask questions. You can do it !!!

[GangstaAngel]

ENERMAX FS-710 FULL SERVER TOWER W/330W (PENTIUM 4 READY) ATX POWER SUPPLY Detail Specs $105.00 $105.00

999975 MAXTOR 60.0GB ST0156000H EIDE ULTRA-DMA/100 7200RPM (Retail) Detail Specs (NO STOCK - Estimate arrival on 01/05/2002) $141.00 $141.00

A15190 MAXTOR 40.0GB DX6L040J2 EIDE ULTRA-ATA 133 8.5MS 7200RPM 2MB BUFFER (Bare drive) $96.00 $96.00

Q033-91-A02586-TEST MSI K7T266 PRO2 Motherboard Specs BUNDLE W/ COOLING FAN & (AMD ATHLON 1000(266MHZ); MWAVE 256MB NON-ECC PC2100; ASSEMBLE/TEST BUNDLE) $259.00 $259.00

A15940 PIONEER DVD-500M 16X-DVD EIDE TRAY INTERNAL (Bare drive*New model of #116) $69.00 $69.00

A00695 SONY 1.44MB FLOPPY DRIVE (Bare Drive) Detail Specs $13.50 $13.50

Sub Total $683.50

there ya go

[GangstaAngel]

sorry about that first one I was missin stuff from it.....here it is revised
MAXTOR 40.0GB DX6L040J2 EIDE ULTRA-ATA 133 8.5MS 7200RPM 2MB BUFFER (Bare drive) $96.00 $96.00

Q033-91-A02586-TEST MSI K7T266 PRO2 Motherboard Specs BUNDLE W/ COOLING FAN & (AMD ATHLON 1000(266MHZ); MWAVE 256MB NON-ECC PC2100; ASSEMBLE/TEST BUNDLE) $259.00 $259.00

A15940 PIONEER DVD-500M 16X-DVD EIDE TRAY INTERNAL (Bare drive*New model of #116) $69.00 $69.00

A15040 MSI GEFORCE2 MX400 64MB SDR AGP W/ TV OUT Detail Specs $79.00 $79.00

A00695 SONY 1.44MB FLOPPY DRIVE (Bare Drive) Detail Specs $13.50 $13.50

A10002 ENERMAX FS-710 FULL SERVER TOWER W/330W (PENTIUM 4 READY) ATX POWER SUPPLY Detail Specs

Sub Total $621.50 w/o sound card

or you can go with

MAXTOR 40.0GB DX6L040J2 EIDE ULTRA-ATA 133 8.5MS 7200RPM 2MB BUFFER (Bare drive) $96.00 $96.00

A15940 PIONEER DVD-500M 16X-DVD EIDE TRAY INTERNAL (Bare drive*New model of #116) $69.00 $69.00

A00695 SONY 1.44MB FLOPPY DRIVE (Bare Drive) Detail Specs $13.50 $13.50

Q082-91-A02586-TEST ASUS A7N266/PA BUNDLE W/ COOLING FAN & (AMD ATHLON 1000(266MHZ); MWAVE 256MB NON-ECC PC2100; ASSEMBLE/TEST BUNDLE) $326.00 $326.00

A10002 ENERMAX FS-710 FULL SERVER TOWER W/330W (PENTIUM 4 READY) ATX POWER SUPPLY Detail Specs $105.00 $105.00

Sub Total $609.50
everything sound, hard drive, dvd, video, proc all of that good stuff...and both have cases. just some suggestions

[Goog]

Wow you guys rule! thanks for the help!

OK.. GangstaAngel thx for the help.. if i were going to buy any of that stuff where would i do it?

A few mods though -
Pricewatch.com is selling maxtor 60gb Maxtor DiamondMax 60.0GB ATA/100. IN STOCK, EIDE 60.0GB, 8.9 ms 5400rpm, 2MB BUFFER for 87$ Better deal, i think, unless the vendor is really really crappy..

Also, I think I'm gunna need a vid card with dual display as I do have two monitors... defenitely wanna use em both. im not sure how much that's gunna cost, though.

Ack, right now im on a t-bird 1ghz, I'm defenitely gunna need to upgrade from that :P either amd xp or p4.. again pricewatch has tons of these real cheap, but I dont know which one to get..

There's all kinds of motherboard combos on there.. like an athlon xp 1900 with cpu, fan.. thats what it says, anyway. but what the hell does that mean? with cpu? does cpu mean the processor? I guess so.. and they're selling the fan without a case... hrm.. it gunna fit..?

Oh and thanks a ton for that link to HAL9000's post, highrisemech, it'll certainly help.

I can defenitely handle buying all the components.. like harddrive, cd-rom, floppy, video card, sound card, and modem. the part I'm scared of the processor and motherboard.. and case and fan.

The processor is like "Athlon xp 1900" and the motherboard is like an asus something, some kind of motherboard that is reccommended to work well with the athlon xp 1900, right?

[Cricket]

Hi Goog,

I commend you for wanting to take the plunge and build your own PC, but with only a $600 to $700 budget you won't be able to go high end. You will be able to build a nice system for that amount though. You can either go with a AMD Duron or T-Bird or a Intel Celeron or Pentium III. CPU speed will more likely have to stay around 1GHz (give or take) with SDRAM (but DDR may be possible). Video card choices would be mid range at best.

Whatever you decide to do, try to buy good quality name brand parts... especially with the motherboard, RAM and power supply. Buying generic may look like a good deal now, but you may end up spending more when the generic gives out and you have to replace it with a better part. Try to pick out a really good case too, as you tend to keep it through several builds or upgrades...and working with a good quality case just makes building and working on computers so much easier.

Come back if you have any more questions, the forum members here are always happy to offer advice or help with a problem.

Cricket

[jkook]

Marc, it appears money is not your issue ? Fine, but slow down. What do you want this new computer your going to build to do ??? Building with an XP1900 is like the newest out > Why build with a 5400 rpm hard drive ?? Use ATA100 at 7200 RPM at least !! Assuming your willing to invest in a XP1900 to start ?? Use Mwave.com to purchase and forget most of the low prices you have seen. They are close if not low on most items and are reliable !!! Be careful who you buy from. Also if you use the XP1900 the case you pick needs to have the a power supply that can handle it !! Check the approved power supplys on the AMD site.
Best of luck and go for it by all means.

[GangstaAngel]

Hey Goog, that is great you want al of those things....but that MSI machine i showed is a pretty good deal for under 700 bucks. I would stick with that. yo aren't gonna be getting XP, Dual, and good sound....I suggested the Asus K7N because it has great onboard video, sound, and lan. What mroe could you ask for. If you don't want that onboard crap.MSI is yourbotherboard to go with. Try and stay around the ghz t-bird range. p4 is way to expensive. http://www.mave.com is where i got the prices from. If you had about 1300 then you could go high, but until then get some of the thigns i listed and you can always upgrade to XP and dual monitor later.

[whr2206]

I remember going though the same thing when I was 14, when I was thinking about doing my first build. Its a great exprience, and you will get the satisfaction that you built your pc. Go to www.mwave.om or www.newegg.com they both have good reputations, and they are easy to deal with as returns goes. I suggest you build an Intel computer first off.(lets not start an arguement) I just think you will get less headaches, with an intel setup. You will probably want to get a celeron to keep the prices down. I suggest a celeron and a asus cusl2-c for starters. I think its a nice setup for a newibe. Let me try to make a rough sketch of what you would need.(prices may not be the most accurate thing)

asus cusl2-c 85
celeron 900 46
ibm 20 gig 7200 rpm 77
floppy 15
ati 7500 64mb ddr 150
enlight case with 250w psu 85
pioneer 16x dvd (almost as cheap as 65
reg cd rom might as well)
turtle beahc santa cruz 75
ethernet card or v.90 modem 30
crucial memory 256 mb 50
total 678

I think it a pretty good setup for a newbie, good luck with what ever you choose.

[Cricket]

Hi Goog,

I see you already have a 1GHz T-Bird system. Have you considered doing an upgrade instead? Is your current system a name brand one (Dell, Gateway, etc...)? If you can re-use some of the stuff out of your current system, you may be able to go with a faster CPU and motherboard combo with your budget.

If your current system is a name brand one, you'll need to pick out a good case with a good power supply. Transfer whatever you can from your old system into the new case (soundcard, modem, NIC, CD-ROM, CD-RW, DVD, floppy, hard drive, etc...) and that $600 - $700 will get you a very nice (and fast) CPU, heatsink, motherboard, RAM combo.

Cricket

[Mr RodeoCC]

Hiyas Goog, I say go for it, build your own computer, its the most satisfying thing to come home and fire this one up I built for myself. It may not be the top of the line but its more than adequate for my uses. This forum has the best group of people willing to help and share knowledge. I have built 2 computers and I'm going to build another in a few month's. There are numerous places to order hardware from as you can see from the previous post's. I'd suggest looking at Tiger Direct as well, they sell individual components, motherboard processor combos, and pc kits(almost complete computers ready to assemble). They have some good prices as well. Take a look ask some questions and get ready for an adventure you'll enjoy daily. Good Luck

[Confused]

You're already getting some good suggestions here, and the only thing I can add is to compare Pricewatch prices with Newegg and Mwave closely. Many of the vendors listed on Pricewatch lowball the price and gouge you on shipping. Also by sticking to one or two vendors you can usually hold down the cost with the savings from shipping. I just placed orders for a new system that includes everything except monitor with Newegg and Mwave and total shipping between the two was $60.00 and that includes a full tower Enermax case.

Another good place that I've dealt with is www.micropro.com Their prices are competive and shipping is fair, but their selection isn't as great as Newegg or Mwave. Might be worth you time to check them out as they do have some good bundles.

Good luck
Chas

[RayH]

If you don't have a full copy of an OS, see what an area custom build shop will charge you for the minimum build. It might not be too outrageous. If you are sitting on an OS, just go for a build.

The "correct" way of putting together parts is to figure what you want to do with your computer. Get the peripherals first. Then with what's left, buy the fastest processor you can afford!

Sometimes, you can buy cheap stuff that works. Then throw it away later in upgrading. For instance, start with a cheap sound card for about $10. When you get more money, buy a good one.

[Goog]

OK, thanks again everyone.

The only discouraging thing here is that apparently I won't be able to go top of the line? I was really hoping either p4 or xp chip and at least like 1.5ghz. But you all say thats not possible with my current budget

I can't just forget the low prices I've seen.. for example:

mwave.com
IBM 60.0GB 07N7174 EIDE ULTRA ATA-5 DESKSTAR 7200RPM 60GXP (Retail) at $149
buycyberpc.com (found on pricewatch) has:
PRICE FOR ONLINE ORDERS, IBM 60.0gb 60GXP HARD DRIVE EIDE 7200RPM ATA100 MENTION PRICE WATCH - Deskstar 60.0GB EIDE 3 Year Manufacturers Warranty 60gb OEM at $112

Ya see... I can't without good reason spend the extra 38 bucks.. and in many other cases the difference is much more. I think I can handle dealing with all the small companies and stuff for everything like hard drive, vid/sound card, cd-rom, and floppy, but the stuff I'm really not familiar with at all, case, mobo, power supply, fans, and processor I think I should get from mwave or newegg, maybe. Here's another price comparison:

newegg.com
AMD ATHLON XP 1800+/266 FSB PROCESSOR CPU - OEM 1800+/ 1.53GHz, AX1800DMT3C. at $182

some retalier found on pricewatch
830LR - with cpu - ATHLON XP 1800+, 1.53GHZ 266MHz and fan Price for PHONE ORDER must MENTION PRICE WATCH - SIS735, 266FSB, 2 SDR & 2 DDR, ATA100, AC97, onboard LAN, 4XAGP, 5PCI, ATX, AthlonXP READY for $239

HRm.. maybe I'm stupid and I'm not even comparing the right things, but newegg.com has much cheaper price.. I think that example from newegg is the motherboard AND the processor, right? So thats what I tried to find on pricewatch.

I could also buy them separately.. get the athlon xp mobo for $49 and then a athlon xp 1800 for $171 for total of $220.. hrm.. newegg still better price?

WEll, thanks a lot everyone for your help, I'd be helpless w/o it :P

I have to run right now, damn school starting, sorry!

[highrisemech]

My advice is start out with a quality motherboard and processor.
This will ultimatly determine the type of system you end up with.
Everything else can be built around it. The deal you mentioned from newegg sounds very good to me and I think you will be pleased. Idea here is get the best motherboard and processor you can for your buck. If you decide to go with the high end motherboards that employ the Athlon XP processor make sure it employs DDR ram (memory) as well otherwise you will slow the processors funtion with sdram memory.
Another thing to consider here is that the Athlon based processor boards
employ the VIA chipset which basically means once your Operating systemis loaded
you will have to install the VIA 4in1 drivers, but this is no problem
the drivers will be on the motherboard cdrom. With Intel based boards this is not necessary.
Also when building your system do not install the add on cards until you have your OS and 4in1 drivers loaded. Then install each add on card one at a time each time checking its function before proceeding to the next.
Youonly want to boot it with the harddrive, cdrom, video card and memory
and obviously the cpu and heatsink/fan that goes on the cpu.
Also get a good thermal grease for the cpu. this goes between the cpu and heatsink. Read the instructions for it carefully. Try Arctic Silver.

[Confused]

Do you really need a 40G, 60G HD? I've been running this one for 2 years with a 9.1G that is only 1/3 full. Now some peoply need big drives and maybe you do but if you only need a 20G, Mwave has the for $84.00. Also on shipping, if you buy from 6 different vendors, you will pay more in shipping than if you limit yourself to one or two. The $5.00 you sve on a sound card will be eaten up in shipping. Don't just compare prices, compare prices plus shipping. All good sites have shopping carts, put your stuff in there, hit calculate shipping charges and get a total.
Chas

[Cricket]

Hi Goog,

If you were to upgrade your present PC, you might be able to go with a faster CPU and a good motherboard. It all depends on what parts you're able to re-use. I've done upgrades for much less than $600...gone from PIII 450MHz to a AMD T-Bird 1.4GHz (fastest CPU at the time) earlier this summer. Owner paid only for a new CPU, HSF, motherboard, video card and RAM (was much cheaper last year)...total was around $450. Everything else was re-used from his old system.

The suggestion about buying your parts from one source comes from people who have been doing this for a long time, I would trust their judgement. Like was mentioned, the part you're looking at might be cheap but the shipping may be double what Newegg.com or MWwave.com would charge...no real savings. And many of those places may not actually have the item in stock, they order it after you place your order. You end up waiting and waiting and sometimes get the run around when you inquire about the status of your order. With MWave.com and Newegg.com, they tell you up front if the item is in stock or not. I've been getting my parts from both companies for some time now, and a few times when the order was held up for whatever reason, they upgraded the shipping to next day air no charge. I live in Hawaii so that isn't cheap for them to do (believe me, it costs them quite a bit), but it shows you how good their customer service is.

Cricket

[NickLuto]

I highly reccommend the EPoX 8KHA+ motherboard. I had a SOYO dragon but it didnt work out so I got the EPoX and not only was it $60 cheaper..it works


Nick

[glc]

To stay within your budget and give you what you want, you are going to have to look at this as an upgrade, not a whole new PC. To the best of my knowledge, a CyberPower is a pretty generic machine - how about you take inventory of all the components it has and post them? We can look and see what can be sensibly reused. The only special consideration for an Athlon XP upgrade is a case that will take a standard ATX motherboard and has a 300 watt AMD-approved power supply that's a decent brand.

May the buyer beware - case in point - that "some retailer" on Pricewatch with the 830LR - that's a PC Chips motherboard which we recommend you run as far away from that one as you can as fast as you can. You are NOT going to find a QUALITY motherboard for much under $100. That $182 price at Newegg is for JUST the processor, no motherboard or heatsink/fan assembly.

You see - this is one of the advantages of building or upgrading your own - you put in the components you need and want, not what the manufacturer decides to put in there. You can certainly go for the bare minimum you need right now and upgrade individual components as you can afford them.

I would guess that you can probably get away with a motherboard/processor/ram bundle from Mwave and *possibly* a new case, and reuse almost everything else for now - let's see what components you have first. You can certainly look for lowest price for individual components.

[Goog]

OK.. I'm honestly not as enthusiastic about the idea of just upgrading, maybe re-using some parts, but not most of them.. its just something about this comp I want to get away from :rollseys:

It doesnt even shut down right half the time.. although i probably need to re-install windows..

Ok, after an intense search throughout my house, I found the receipt for this comp, purchased on exactly 04/05/01. heres a list of the parts on it.. excluding some useless stuff like box, shipping, windows, etc:

256 mb sdram pc133 <-- ram upgrade ati xpert@98 AGP 8mb <-- vid card, defenitly dont want to reuse this amd athlon thunderbird 1ghz cpu azza kt133a 266mhz mb udma 100 <-- anyone know anything about azza? 128 mb pc133 sdram seagate 30gb 5400 udma 100 HD <-- seagate.. hrm.. amd athlon socketA cpu fan 1.1ghz case fan <-- ? thats all it says.. a little generic, maybe..? btc 52x cd-rom <-- I have an old computer with a 48x max cd-rom i could use intel 56k v .90 fax modem speakr 691 pair of 2x4 at00 fdd1.44mitsumi fd 1.44 mitsum <-- i could reuse this, or take it from a diff old comp ps2 windows 98 keyboard ps2 mouse athlon atx 300 watt medium tower

Btw, total pricew with shipping and everything for that was $788, which I think back then was not a bad deal..

Just a quick question, I keep hearing people mention about heatsink fans.. but i dont really know what exactly a heatsink fan is. It obviously goes in the case to cool the cpu.. So I have to be sure it will fit my case before I buy it, correct?
How is it different from a regular case fan? Or are all fans called heatsink fans?

Now to respond to a few people...

"You see - this is one of the advantages of building or upgrading your own - you put in the components you need and want, not what the manufacturer decides to put in there. You can certainly go for the bare minimum you need right now and upgrade individual components as you can afford them." -glc

Amen to that lol

"I highly reccommend the EPoX 8KHA+ motherboard. I had a SOYO dragon but it didnt work out so I got the EPoX and not only was it $60 cheaper..it works" -NickLuto

This is for an athlon xp processor, correct?

"Do you really need a 40G, 60G HD?" -Confused

Well, I don't run a business or anything so I cant say I really "Need" anything
Lets just say on this 30gb drive, right now I have exactly 3.45 mb left. that reminds me, I really gotta start deleting stuff. But yea, I'd like at least 40, preferably 60.

"if you only need a 20G, Mwave has the for $84.00. " -Confused

Ok, thats fine and all, but still, I can't bring myself to pay $84.00 for a drive thats only 20gigs when for $87.00 I can get from starcomputekcom:
40.0GB EIDE ATA/100, 7200 RPM, 2 MB,8.9 ms.(3 YEARS WARRANTY). (NEWER VERSION OF 45.0 GB) 45.0GB IN STOCK. Maxtor DiamondMax . Latest Best NEW Model# 6L040J2.(ACTUAL SIZE 41). SAME DAY SHIPPING.

Granted, it is $15 shipping.. making it really $102, but theres gotta be some shipping on the one from mwave, not having any experience with them, I'll say its 6 bucks (could be less if i bought it with other stuff), so its either $90 for 20gb or $102 for 40gb.. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong or anything, I hope it doesnt sound like that.. but my instinct is to go with the 40gb one, even though its from http://www.starcomputek.com/ not mwave. Should I go for the 20gig one from mwave just becuase its better service?

"Another thing to consider here is that the Athlon based processor boards employ the VIA chipset which basically means once your Operating system is loaded you will have to install the VIA 4in1 drivers, but this is no problem the drivers will be on the motherboard cdrom." -highrisemech

OK.. but how can the operating system be loaded on the motherboard already.. isnt the os on the harddrive? And by athlon based processor board, you mean motherboards for an athlon processor, yes?

Sorry if im confusing, theres so many ppl helping and a lot to respond to!
Wow, I wonder if I'd ever be able to build this pc without all your help

Thanks a ton everyone..

[Colb]

Heatsink Fan: This is a cooling device for your cpu. Snaps on top of you cpu to keep it cool(MUST HAVE). I just bought the xp1700+ and got the HS and fan that came with the chip, paid a little more but not too much.

Epox supports amd.

And for the 4in1 drivers: After your computer is set up a boots, then you install the updated drivers for the mobo from the mobo CD. And then check their website's for newer drivers.

Side Note: I bought the SOYO dragon+ about a month ago and is running fine.

[Goog]

Cool, thanks..

So the 4in1 drivers i have to install a driver for the mobo, after i set up the os I'm going to use..? or before?

[Colb]

After you get the os running, you will then run a CD that came with the motherboard that will install the drivers. The drivers are for the chipset on the mobo.

[Goog]

Ok, I see. My mobo know must be 4in1 then, because I know there were a buncha drivers on the cd that I had to install.. actually, I didn't know to install them until their tech support told me to..

[NickLuto]

im not dissing the SOYO dragon + at all, it just didnt work for me. I probably got a defective something or another because it locked up everytime I started to play anything 3d intensive (games, grahpics programs, etc.) But now that I have the EPoX KHA+ and a $64 gift certificate to fry's...not a bad deal ..im going to get some more RAM with it.

And yes, the EPoX is a Socket A motherboard that supports AMD Athlon and Duron. I am currently running with AMD Athlon XP 1800+. The EPoX is only 100 bucks on mwave and a very good deal. It supports PC1600 and PC2100 DDR RAM. I built my system for $850 + or - 50 bucks..i read all the crap about the early KHA+ motherboards having a bad BIOS but all the kinks are worked out now so dont fret. Here is the pricing of my current system

Nick

_______________________________________________________________________________
AMD Athlon XP 1800+ (retail with CPU) $218.00
EPoX KHA+....................................$99.00
512MB PC 2100 Corsair DDR RAM ...........($139 per stick)
P.O.S case I got from Alltex(300wPSU).... $49.99
IBM 7200 RPM 60gig hard drive ............$98
crappy floppy that I have yet to use......$13
Some crappy 52X cd drive..................$32.99
Visiontek GeForce2 Ti.....................$150.00
---------------------------------------------------------
Total.....................................$799.98 + S&H or Tax

Damn i was pretty close. I spent less than I thought. Anything I left out? I hope not..Anyways..good luck with your computer Goog!

[Confused]

No offense taken, I was just asking the question and I agree you probably do with the amount of space you've already used up. 4 in 1 drivers are for VIA chipset boards running AMD. You wouldn't run into that issue with an intel based system or an AMD system that used the AMD761 chipset such as the Epox 8K7A board. A heat sink and fan (2 pieces) come with a retail box. Good for regular use, not overclocking. People who overclock buy an OEM CPU and seperate heatsink and a seperate fan. One note, be sure to use something like Artic Silver between the heatsink and CPU. Good article on how to apply it is at the Artic Silver site.
Chas

[Goog]

Cool, I'll be sure to use some kind of thermal grease.

Thanks for the info, Nick, just one question --

AMD Athlon XP 1800+ (retail with CPU) $218.00

what does the (retail with cpu) mean..?