Betcha you can't fix my mouse problem

[jnc007]

I have a micro industries optic 3 button roller mouse. That since I've installed my new video card, its decided to give me grief. I start a game the mouse locks up. I still have control of the key board. I alt escape out of the program, and the mouse on the desktop is locked up. I then try to shut down and it gets as far as the shutdown screen and then that too locks up. Heres what I've tried. I went to the graphics slider in the system manager and bumped it over one notch. No luck. I down loaded the newest drivers for my mouse, no luck. I finally pulled my back-up junk roller ball mouse and that works perfectly. The optic is usb might that have something to do with it??? So if you folks can solve my mystery, I'll be in your debt thanks.

[morriswindgate]

When you upgrade your video card did you remove the profile of the old card before you installed the new card? Holding down the Windows key and hitting Pause-Break go into the device manager then display properties and see if you ahve any profile other thatn the G-Force. If you do highlight and remove it.

[jnc007]

I'm just learning but I was pretty sure I did that. I've checked and my video card is the only shown

[morriswindgate]

Since it is a USB mouse, two things you can try next. First uninstall the software that came with the mouse, then in the device manager remove the mouse's profile, unplug the mouse and shutdown. Restart and when you get into windows plug in the mouse and let it re-detect, then if you do not have mouse at this time, restart, if you do have mouse control re-install the software for it.
If this doesn't work and you have the or the mouse can with a PS2 adapter, shut down the computer and put the mouse on the PS2 port to narrow down which device has the conflict. If the PS2 causes problems then re-install the NVida drivers, but do not use the ones that came with the card, instead go to www.nvidia.com and download the latest driver pack and install it. I have had problems when I used the drivers that came with Nvidia based cards.
And since I am a nerd and think that way, start with the last thing first, the first thing next and the second thing last as this is the easiest to the more time consuming.

[glc]

I would look at a possible conflict with another USB device (the webcam maybe?) or a conflict between the USB itself and something else. If it came with a PS/2 adapter, use it.

[mike breck]

I've had problems in the past using drivers and software that came with mice (or mouses) e.g. games locking up etc.
When I just used the Windows generic mouse drivers and no software, the problems disapeared.
I did , of course, lose some of the "fancy" features that came with the mice but I don't need or miss them.
Worth a try.

HTH

[Reedimus]

I had almost the exact same problem with my old mouse when I upgraded my video card. it was a good excuse to get that logitech optical mouse I wanted. now everything is fine again.

[daveric1]

errrrrrmm! Go down to the petshop and buy the biggest cat you can. then sit it next to the mouse.I'm sure it will start to behave itself.Or maybe the functions of the mouse are too advanced for the program you are using.Which could cause the freeze.It happened to me and I use my old mouse when needed

dave

[jnc007]

Well I uninstalled the software for my video card, removed it from my system, started from scratch, and reloaded everything. I then played one of the games in question for 30 minutes and then it locked up. I then tried it again for 10 minutes and it locked up.

I don't think I have a PS2 Usb port. How does the WEbcam conflict. they don't have irq's like Pci ports do they???? I've yet to determine if its mouse specific but I don't think it happens with my old junkie roller mouse. Can anyone hazard a quess as to what is causing this?

Thanks

[Colonel Sanders]

(A)your mouse is a cheapo from overseas or

(B)your web-cam is takeing too much power from the USB port. Don't ask me about the power bit, I remember trying to run my USB mouse from the back of my keyboard and it complained about not haveing enough power(***?), plug it into the MB, and it works fine. Just try without the web-cam.

Logan

[morriswindgate]

Yes, USB ports only have a capacity of 500ma per port set (and both of your ports on the back of the computer have a combined capacity of 500ma) Webcams use a lot of power for a USB device. So you are probably see an overload. If you are going to use alot of USB devices get a powered USB hub.

[jnc007]

I have a wonderful twist to the mystery! To start I have two usb's on the back of the computer. One has my PDA craddle and the other has a non powered hub. The hub has my mouse and the printer. Everything else is unplugged. The printer is off.

Now here's the kicker. I'm playing Ghost recon for an hour+ then it locks up. As I've said in the past I still had keyboard control. So I played with what functions I could on the keyboard. I found that when I switch gun modes (ie gun -> rocket launcher) and then go into the options window, the mouse is some how reactivated.

Now how the hell did that happen? or better yet why? or even better yet does this lead me any closer to a real solution?

Is the answer simply, get a powered hub? Or should I on a hunch spend $50 on a better quality mouse?

[jnewl]

Don't bother with the powered hub. It won't make any difference.

I have exactly the same problem you do--in fact, other than the machine specs, I could have written your post--but I have a powered USB hub and the mouse freezes whether I use it or not--i.e. even if I unplug it and uninstall it completely.

I'm at my wit's end. I've been on this friggin' problem for two solid days now, and I've tried everything. The thing is, unlike you, I haven't changed the video card or driver. In my case, it was the MoBo, processor, and system memory. Everything else stayed the same.

My mouse is a Logitech Optical Wheel Mouse, so I wrote to Logitech asking whether they had any idea what the problem might be. Here's a reference they just sent me. Since my MoBo *does* use the SiS chipset (which they mention), I'm going to carefully go through their suggestions and see if any of it helps. You might try the same, even though your hardware is different. What the heck, eh?

http://www.logitech.com/cf/support/7121.cfm

After I'm done, I'll come back here and post the results. I am, however, pretty pessimistic at this point.

Here are my relevant specs:

Pentium 4 1700
Soyo P4S MoBo
512 Mb DDR SDRAM
VisonTek GeForce 3 w/23.11 Detonator drivers (I've tried several older drivers as well)
D-Link 4-port USB hub (currently uninstalled)
Win 98SE
DirectX 8.1
Everything patched and updated out the wazoo.

Also, I might mention that DirectX seems to be involved with the freezing, as it only happens in apps (i.e. for me, games) that utilize it. I *have* had a couple of freezes of the Windows desktop itself, but I think those were unrelated (probably typical Win98 behavior), since *everything* froze up solid, as opposed to the games, where it's only the mouse. To that end, I've also tried uninstalling DirectX 8.1 and using 8.0a instead (yes, I know how), but that didn't help either, so I've gone back to 8.1. Anyway, as I said before, it all used to work fine together on my old hardware...

Sigh. I'll let ya know.

[jnewl]

Well, I hope I'm not jumping the gun, but I've been playing a game that was giving me fits before for about an hour now with no lockups, so I'm going to tentatively declare victory. Like I said, I've been on this for two days now, and I've tried to run this particular game at least fifty times (probably more like a hundred), and it never, ever let me play for more than about five minutes without the mouse freezing up. It's now let me go for an hour.

The problem was the SiS PCI to USB Host Controller driver. When I changed to the Windows generic driver, the problem seemed to go away. (For instructions on how to do this, click on the URL in my previous message and read under the ALI section.)

Anyway, I may be back after awhile going, "Oops, sorry, false alarm," but I hope not. If you *don't* hear back from me, you can safely assume the fix was permanent.

YAY! WOWEEE! WHOOP WHOOP!!!!

[jnewl]

Well, it ain't fixed. The mouse just froze up on me again. However, it *is* much, much better than it was before. It doesn't freeze nearly as quickly now. Maybe I should try bumping the voltage up again to see if that will help? I dunno. I think it's a defect in the chipset itself.

Crapola.

[puggs]

If it isn't fixed, i have another idea

it sounds to me as it may be a heat related problem. you play your game and the computer and video game get hot then the mouse stops working. so you go into setting which is less stressful to the computer and it cools again and the mouse starts working. you then go back to playing the game and it heats up again, the mouse stops working....

try playing the game until it stops working then just sit in settings mode for 5 mins or so minutes and see if the mouse starts working by its self.

[mike breck]

Is this happening with all your games or just GR?
If it's just GR, then it could just be a game related problem. Check and see if there are any patches which deal with this issue.

Also, following Puggs line - what are your CPU and mobo temps?

[Werewolfdaddy]

Correct and forgive me if I am wrong, but if it's a heat problem, wouldn't the computer turn off prematurely or at least give a warning or something.
I have Ghost Recon and play it with a logitec optical and have never had any trouble with it. However, exceptions occur. My advice would be to play as many different games as you own and can stomach; check to see how they perform. At least that can narrow it down to Ghost Recon, if it is just GR.
I'm half a sleep, but I didn't see whether you checked the device manager to see if there is a conflict.

[puggs]

Heat problems may cause Blue Screens of Death, reboots or even localised problems. it could be as simple as a bad solder joint.

if you are using a USB mouse you could get a USB to PS2 adapter and try using the PS2 port for the mouse.

[archie]

Or should I on a hunch spend $50 on a better quality mouse?

This will apply more to jnc007 but may be worth considering for jnewl also. First, the Logitech optical mouse with cable sells for much less than $50 ... in Canada, they sell for $30 to $40 and prices are less in the USA. These are USB and come with a PS/2 adapter. If you don't already have a spare mouse, it's worth having for such troubleshooting. jnc007 has already tried an old mouse that worked ... so the problem seems to be resolved.
When having problems of any sorts, oftentimes different remedies will be tried and these troubleshooting steps should start with cheap/easy/quick solutions first ... trying with another mouse is a cheap/easy/quick solution. It may or may not fix the problem but at least it eliminates that as being the cause of the problem.

[jnc007]

I'm not entirly clear what a PS/2 adaptor is. However, I had a friend of mine who works in the industry and he suggested just buying a usb -> standard mouse port adaptor. Is this the same thing? Can you see any advantages / disadvantages to doing this?

Using Sisoft sandra (just to get a rough idea) my system is running at 28.0 c / 82.0f. I couldn't have any less of a clue if thats good or bad. There are no device conflicts in my manager. This "symptom" has only been associated with GR and Battle relms. Incidently, their both demos. I've been playing Return to castle wolf. for 2 months religiously and have never had a problem.

The mystery is a foot dear watson!

[jnewl]

archie, thanks for the suggestion, but I've been there and done that. My MS Intellimouse (Optical, USB) doesn't work either. While I'm sure a serial mouse *would* work, that's simply not an option. I'm not about to give up my USB functionality if I don't have to.

I've been all over the Internet with this problem, and the consensus seems to be that the problem is with the SiS chipset USB integration (coincidentally enough, both my and jnc007's boards use the SiS chip). It simply doesn't work right with certain USB devices--Logitech's being the most notorious. Specifically, the USB Webcam is giving everybody fits, and in my case the USB Optical Wheelmouse as well. As I said before, I think DirectX is involved too, since both jnc007 and I only have problems with DirectX applications. That would help to explain, I think, why jnc007 only began to have problems when he upgraded his video adapter.

As soon as Best Buy opens this morning, I'm going to try disabling the onboard USB host and putting in an external USB controller board. Hopefully, that will fix the problem. If it doesn't, keep an eye on the papers for a consumer gone berserk with a firearm (jk, sorta ).

(Btw, if anybody else wants to try this, MAKE SURE the interface board isn't based on the VIA chip. VIA also has big problems with USB. And they make USB controller boards. Go figure.)

Anway, I'll let you know.

[jnc007]

Jnewl, I'm still new to this. So I'm just looking for some clarifcation. If I got a serial mouse adapter, what usb function would I be losing? Also, we're both suffering with these two particular "mice" so I assume that all mice will have this problem, or will an upgraded one not have this problem? Anyone have a clue as to why Return to castle wolf. (RTCW) doesn't have this problem?

I apparently have more questions than answers. I'm still learning.

[jnewl]

jnc007, no need to apologize. This is as tough a problem as any I've come across. It seems like it's always the stupid little things that are the most troublesome

a) A serial mouse adapter is just a plug adapter that will allow you to plug your USB mouse into one of your computer's serial ports (of which PS/2, I believe, is just a particular kind; the plug for it is a different size and shape than your standard serial plug). The serial port is what preceded USB ports in the development of computer hardware technology; it's what you used to always have your mouse connected to prior to the advent of USB. Anyway, by going with a serial mouse (or a USB mouse with a serial adapter), I wouldn't by that fact be losing USB functionality. I'm just concerned that if there's something wrong with the USB functionality in general, going to a serial mouse would probably give me a working mouse, but it would fail to address the underlying problem. I have six other USB devices that I need to use; thus, I need to make sure USB works on my machine, as there are only two serial ports available on it (plus one PS-2 port, plus there are other issues with going the serial route as well, like lack of sufficient IRQ's, etc.)

b) I'm assuming an "upgraded" mouse won't help, since my mouse is perfectly modern already and I've tried another from a different maker, to no avail. (I'm using the latest drivers, btw, although I've tried Windows generic and a couple of other flavors too.) It's not outside the realm of possibility that some other mouse might work, but at the same time it's not all that likely, and again it probably wouldn't address the underlying problem, which, by all accounts, seems to be caused at least in part by the way SiS (the maker of the main chips on our motherboards) has integrated USB support into their products.

c) I have no idea why RTCW works, while other games don't. I've tried four games myself (Anarchy Online, AvP2, NOLF, and The Sting), and they all have the problem (The Sting being the worst, so that's my test bed). Since I own a couple hundred games, it might be that I could find one that would run right as well, but at this point I haven't. In any case, I'm convinced this has something to do, on the software side, with some DirectX instruction somewhere. Perhaps the RTCW program doesn't make use of that particular instruction, but without seeing the source code there's no way to know.

Oh well. I'm off to Best Buy now. This may not work, since I'm not clear whether the problem is in the design of the SiS chip itself (in which case it won't work) or something external, but related (in which case it might). Anyway, I'll know soon enough.

[jnc007]

jnewl,

Ya know, this is why I LOVE this web site. You just explained to me in 30 sec. what a $25 book and half hour of reading would take me. Even though I hate these freaking problems with the help you and others like you, I become progessivly smarter (well thats what feels like, in reality...)

So I tested this problem now on on Fallout Tactics with no problem.

I have a pair of USB ports on the front of my machine as well, do you think these would suffer from the same problem, since they are in fact related throught the Sis chip? Or should I rule out individual USB port problems since this isn't limited to just myself?

[jnewl]

No, jnc007, all your USB ports should exhibit the same symptoms. The problem crops up at earlier stage in the hardware than that.

Ok, so I got a USB interface card. I turned off onboard USB support in the BIOS. I booted Windows in Safe Mode and manually deleted the USB devices in Device Manager. I installed the card. I booted the machine with my Windows install disk in a CD drive. Windows PnP picked it up like it's supposed to and installed all the drivers without a hitch. Hooray. I had mouse in Windows. Yay again. I started Anarchy Online. So far so good, BUT...after two minutes, FREEZE. Yuck. I rebooted. Tried The Sting. Same thing.

Bzzzzzt. Oh, I'm sorry, jnewl, you were so wrong it's not even funny. But thanks for playing.

Moral of this story: don't bother trying the alternate controller card route, jnc007. It looks like I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and use a serial mouse after all, since I'm fresh outta ideas. I just hope my other USB devices don't crash arbitrarily like the mouse does when it comes time to use them. Now that I think of it, I should try my joystick to see if it suffers from the same problem, since that's a game device as well...

Anyway, I'll let you know if I come up with any more bright ideas. For now, my wad is shot. As for you, jnc007, I'd follow your friend's advice and get the PS/2 adapter for your mouse. They're only a couple of bucks.

Take care!
jnewl, over and out.

[RenegadeKing]

Very odd. I was going to suggest getting a PCI USB card and trying that, but apparently that won't work

My friend was having the same problem at a LAN party the other day. He had a USB Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer and it has always worked fine. Before the party he went to compusa to pick up another mouse for another friend because his had stopped working. Anyway when we got there my friend that he got the mouse for ended up not showing up, so he decided to try out the mouse that he got for the other friend. This mouse by the way was USB and optical and compusa brand (don't know who made it for them). Well while we were playing his mouse kept locking up. He fixed it by unplugging it and plugging it into the other port everytime it happened, which was quite often. He didn't try switching back to his MS USB mouse, but he probably should have as that one has never given him any problems.

So, maybe getting a different mouse could fix it.

RenegadeKing

[archie]

This is a puzzling one. Don't give up.
jnewl has tried a lot of solutions already and awaiting results of the joystick.
jnc007, I don't know what else to suggest other than to try the mouse in the USB port without the hub that is also attached to the printer ... just in case.
BTW, a PS/2 port, unlike the 9-pin or 25-pin serial port is shape in a circular shape about 1/4 " in diameter and is next to the keyboard port in the identical shape.

[puggs]

jnc007

I think you have won the bet, without actualy having the computer to touch i can't figure it out. But it sounds like a very bad implimentation of the USB (2.0?) chipset or a very bad board layout. If the PS/2 option doesn't work i think it's a new M/B with a diffrent chipset for you.

There are time in this game that you just have to give up on it.

[jnewl]

Ok, just to update everybody:

The PS/2 gambit worked like a charm--as it should have. I have mouse and it doesn't freeze.

However, I don't have any games that require a joystick loaded at the moment, so I can't check out whether my USB stick freezes or not. Maybe if he has a USB stick, jnc007 can try that out and let you know.

(I forgot to tell you guys I tried loading up Win2000 last night to see if that would make a difference--it didn't, of course--which ended up futzing up my registry so bad I finally just reformated the whole blankety-blank drive and started over. Consequently, my hard drive is rather barren right now.)