CPU Cooler Software

[FZWG]

Appreciate some assistance.

Anyone know of a good CPU cooling software for an AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.1 GHz?

[vernonm_2000]

Rain is good

[phatboi]

what do you mean, like a software that will actually cool your computer? or a software that will monitor the temp. of your system. if you're looking for temperature monitors, try motherboard monitor or ITE SmartGuardian. but i don't know of any software that will actively cool your system.

[Michael]

Try this....

http://www.naggelgames.de/vcool/VCool.html[/url]

As far as I know Rain will not work on an Athlon.

[FZWG]

Thank you for the info and the link.

Good info. Looking for software that will aide the cooling process. VCool seems like a likely candidate to do the job.

Have a good week.

[Fraughton]

Do any of these programs work with the kt266a motherboards?

[phatboi]

i know ITE SmartGuardian does b/c it comes with the Soyo Dragon+ and the Soltek motherboards, all the others should work as well.

[Alfie]

I would have to second Vcool,it lowers the temp while offering the ability to shutdown the system if a temp of your choosing is reached.
It works flawlessly in XP,but will not shut down the system in ME,but rather causes all kinds of screens to pop up!

[TwoRails]

from the above link, here is a quote:

This little utility will cool your Athlon/Duron processor on Via KT133 or KX133(A) (VT8363, VT8361, VT82C691/693A/694 or VT8371 +VT82C686x) chipsets during idle

Note the key phrase: during idle

Maybe I'm missing something, but at idle, you don't need additional cooling! There are some current threads about how on some "store bought" systems, the CPU fan turns completely OFF during non-use and or sleep mode.

Running additional software, while the system is not at idle, can only add to processor usage, and therefore more heat.

TwoRails

[Michael]

Running additional software, while the system is not at idle, can only add to processor usage, and therefore more heat.

Maybe I'm missing something, but at idle, you don't need additional cooling!

I think you missed this.....(even at idle the Athlon/Doron is actually still consuming energy. Btw, Vcool has dropped my temps 10-12 degrees celcius ALL AROUND--idle temps 29-31c; Full load 38-41 celcius) :

The Athlon Idle X Files
..or what your CPU really does when it's not working for you
The Athlon/Duron family is not really famous for conserving energy. However it can enter a state with lower power consumption but it seems that it often refuses to do so on your average system.
Traditionally this is done by executing a special HLT instruction when there's nothing else to do - but lets take a look at the AMD docs:


Halt State
When the AMD Duron Processor Model 3 executes the HLT instruction, the processor issues a Halt special cycle to the system bus. The phase-lock loop (PLL) continues to run, enabling the processor to monitor bus activity and provide a quick resume from the Halt state. The processor enters a lower power state if the system logic (Northbridge) disconnects the AMD System Bus in response to the Halt special cycle.

Hmm.. apparently the CPU is waiting for the Northbridge to disconnect the bus before going to sleep. But when does that disconnect happen? Back to the Duron Docs:


Significant power savings of the AMD Duron Processor Model 3 only occurs if the processor is disconnected from the system bus by the Northbridge while in the Halt or Stop Grant state. The Northbridge can optionally initiate a bus disconnect upon the receipt of a Halt or Stop Grant special cycle. The option of disconnecting is controlled by an enable bit in the Northbridge.

So it's the Northbridge that is to blame if power saving does not work then. Let's head over to the VT8371-Northbridge Docs:

Device 0 Offset 52 – S2K Timing Control III .................. RW
The contents of this register are preserved during suspend.
Bits 2-0 have no default value.

7 Disconnect Enable When STPGNT Detected
6 Write to Read Delay .............. .................. default = 1
5-4 Read to Write Delay .......... .................. default = 11b
3 1ns Skew Between Even / Odd Clock Group For
Data (Strapped from MAB3)
0 Disable .................default if no strap on MAB3
1 Enable
2-0 Write Data Delay from SYSDC to CPU Data
Output .......................................... (WrDataDly)

The interesting bit is obviously Bit 7 aka "Disconnect Enable When STPGNT Detected Bit". If this bit is set the Northbridge will disconnect the system bus when it detects the STPGNT state.
However the documentation talks only about the STPGNT state the HLT state isn't mentioned...
Either I've overlooked something here or the Northbridge doesn't really care about the HLT state when it comes to bus disconnecting.
So that leaves us wondering: "How does Software cooling work then?" and "What is that STPGNT state, anyway?"

Again the Duron Docs come to our rescue:


Stop Grant States
The AMD Duron Processor Model 3 enters the Stop Grant state upon recognition of assertion of STPCLK# input. There are two mechanisms for asserting STPCLK# – hardware and software.
The Southbridge can force STPCLK# assertion for throttling to protect the processor from exceeding its maximum case temperature. This is accomplished by asserting the THERM# input to the Southbridge. Throttling asserts STPCLK# for a percentage of a predefined throttling period: STPCLK# is repetitively asserted and deasserted until the THERM# pin is deasserted.
Software can force the processor into the Stop Grant state by accessing ACPI-defined registers typically located in the Southbridge. Software places the processor in C2 by reading the PLVL_2 register in the Southbridge.

Now that's neat! If our CPU doesn't enter the STPGNT voluntarily we can make it an offer it cannot refuse....
All we need to do is to assert the STPCLK# input - and the Southbridge is in control of that piece of wire.
Oh well, just what we needed: one more chip getting involved.
Anyway, AMD was nice enough to already tell us what we have to do: "Read the PLVL_2 register, Luke"


Now we just have to find that "PLVL_2" register in the Southbridge - a quick glance into the VT82C686 docs reveals:

I/O Offset 14 - Processor Level 2 ...................................... RO
7-0 Level 2 ........................................ always reads 0

Reads from this register put the processor into the
Stop Grant state (the VT82C686A asserts STPCLK#
to suspend the processor). Wake up from Stop Grant
state is by interrupt (INTR, SMI, and SCI).
Reads from this register return all zeros; writes to this
register have no effect.

Finally! We found the end of that chain:


Read the PLVL_2 register in the Southbridge
The Southbridge asserts STPCLK#
The CPU enters STPGNT state
The Northbridge disconnect the system bus (if we have set the disconnect bit)
The CPU enters low power state
Eventually the temperature drops :-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Conclusion
It seems that a simple HLT instruction will halt a Athlon/Duron but it will not put it into a low power mode.
Even if you set the Bus disconnect bit in the Northbridge is not sufficient because the Northbridge will only take action if the CPU is in the STPGNT state - a mere HLT in just enough.
NOTE: the AMD 761 Northbridge has an option for disconnecting the bus on HLT.
To put the CPU into the required STPGNT state you'd have to utilize an ACPI register in the Southbridge.

Apparently some OSs and cooling utilities fall short in one or the other category:
Usually the OS has an idle loop and probably uses the ACPI register to put the CPU into STPGNT state but it forgets to set the Bus Disconnect Bit.
This is where a lot of (BIOS-)hacks and tools come into play: They set this infamous Northbridge bit - however if OS doesn't use the APCI register or the tool has it's own idle loop with just the HLT instruction, the CPU just won't cool off.



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Solution(s)?
Well the solution is kind of obvious: Get an OS and/or a tool that puts your Athlon or Duron to sleep in the way describes above.
There are plenty of tools available - some work, some work sometimes.
And most of them won't really tell you what they do. That's why I wrote a little (~10K) Utility myself that sets the Northbridge bit and incorporates an idle loop that puts the CPU to sleep using the ACPI register on the Southbridge.

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So, as the above explains in technospeak, that although your Athlon/Duron has the brains to put itself to sleep it lacks the language to instruct it to do so. Vcool, Rain, Cpu Idle, Waterfall, etc, etc, all work in similar ways to provide the proper set of instructions and can significantly reduce heat generation.


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[KuhnDog]

Wow! Thats prolly the longest post Ive seen in a while ^
_________________________________________________________|

::KuhnDog

[FZWG]

Thank you for your replies.

Also, thank you for the thorough explanation, Michael.

Although some of your technospeak is beyond my level of expertise, it did provide an understanding of the process involved.

Have a good day.

[Michael]

Also, thank you for the thorough explanation, Michael.

Well thanks, but if I could write that way I'd be a technical writer for, ummm, how about..... Vcool!!! LOL. The explanation was taken from a link embedded within the Vcool site. I hope no one else thought I wrote that, it certainly wasn't my intention to plagarize (next time I'll use quotation marks).

[TwoRails]

Hi Michael,

First, I appreciate your post. I do have to admit that you are obviously much more knowledgable than I, but I did the general idea! (Yes, I actually read it all!! )

Your post leads me to another avenue: how does a utility such as you mention affect system benchmarks?? Have you run benchmarks? if so I'm curious as to the hit, if any, performace takes.

About cooling in general, I have always believed that if the system is running at a good temp, then I'm happy. What I'm saying is that if one additional fan, such as I normally run, keeps the system in the 40s (even during game play) then adding 4 more fans is overkill that creates excessive noise. (the kind of excessive noise I like, my wife hates...) However, that's just my perspective and the above is meant in a good way

Again, I appreciate the time you took on you post. That's why I went into more detail above.

TwoRails

[fisher]

I bought 3 extra case fans and dropped the temp from 72C to 36C and that was after an hour of solid gaming. I am running a 1gig Tbird on a shuttle main board with a 64meg g-force 2 400 card with 1241 video drivers and the latest 4n1 drivers. And thanks again Michael for the latency patch, i had to run #18 patch to clear the soundblaster live card / via chipset issues.

Sheldon

[Michael]

Your post leads me to another avenue: how does a utility such as you mention affect system benchmarks?? Have you run benchmarks? if so I'm curious as to the hit, if any, performace takes.

Hi TwoRails....I haven't noticed any performace degradation using either Rain on my SS7 board or Vcool with the Athlon. I'd be happy to do a hd benchmark comparison but Sisoft ALWAYS locks up on me when I try. Occasionally it has worked in the past, but more often than not I'll get a lockup.....any suggestions?

I did run a cpu benchmark with Vcool running and the results are right on taget with the comparison benchmarks in Sisoft. Interestingly, the cpu marks with Vcool ENABLED were: integer 6588 and floating point 8350; with Vcool DISABLED: integer 6586; floating point 8340. I reran them to check continuity and with Vcool enabled there was only a 1 point decrease from the baseline benchmark. So, with Vcool ENABLED there was actually a very slight, albeit inconsequential, theoretical INCREASE in performance. The point being, in respect to the cpu there is no "hit" taken by running Vcool (at least according to Sisoft).-

I'm slowly--incrementally-- oc'ing my 1.2 T-Bird and am curently up to 1.3...going for 1.4, but am afraid the syncronicity of the buses wil do me in before I reach that goal. Vcool is keeping my average temp at around 34c. I just got so use to running Rain on my K6/3 450 (oc'd @ 500) and seeing temps in the 30's that it was a bit disconcerting when I got the Athlon to be running in the 40's and low 50's (very occasionally), even though those temps were wnl. So, it's a psychological thing for me as much as anything.

Fisher: Glad the Latency patch did the trick. Thankfully, on this Epox 8KTA3 board with the Via KT133/a chipset everything is running superbly without any need for patching (my Abit KT7A was quite a different story). I am totally sold on Epox for stability and features.

[FZWG]

Although VCool appears as the best candidate for the initial post (AMD CPU cooling job), the following is a concern: the utility addresses ability to cool Athlon/Duron processors on Via KT133 or KX133(A) (VT8363, VT8361, VT82C691/693A/694 or VT8371 +VT82C686x) chipsets.

The chipset on the DFI AM75-TC mainboard of my pc is VIA KM133A (VT8365A and VT 82C686B). An AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.1GHz is installed in it.

Is the KM133A a glorified KT133 with integrated S3 Savage graphics?

What are your opinions about installing VCool on this particular board?

Thanks for the help.

[TwoRails]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for posting your benchmarks! Glad to hear no "major" hits as I was suspecting. (I would have lot money on that bet! I guess that's why I don't gamble ) It seems like the faster procs get, the more thing are running on my machine, dragging it down...

You mentioned:

...snip... but Sisoft ALWAYS locks up on me when I try. Occasionally it has worked in the past, but more often than not I'll get a lockup.....any suggestions?

No, sorry... Sandra has always worked as advertised for me, but I've heard otherwise before. The only problem I had / have with it is that the latest upgrade / update can't find the "necessary files" to install itself. Thanks for reminding me I have to email them about the problem...

TwoRails

[TwoRails]

Well, on second thought, maybe I have one suggestion, but I "bet" you've already tried: Turning off all those apps / virus prgs, etc., running in the background??

Also, I never tried it, but does Sandra run in "safe mode"??

TwoRails