Enabling sound causes freezes

[tycoon]

After installing 2 new hard drives after the old one crashed I started getting frequent screen freezes where the mouse pointer just stops moving and the system needs a hard reboot. I finally got a stable system by removing the sound card but then when I tried loading drivers for the onboard sound the problem returned. Disabling the onboard sound in the BIOS gave a stable system again. I then reinstalled the sound card and it was stable until drivers were loaded. Disabling the sound card in device manager once again gave a stable system.

The fact that it happens with either sound source is strange. I've already done a couple of reformat/clean installs but now I'm stuck. The original system was preloaded so I don't know exactly what was there or in what order and the manufacturer has been unable to help. I've tried the newest drivers for both sound sources with no improvement. I either have a stable system with no sound or a very unstable one with sound, even when not using any sound programs.

Any suggestions welcome.


My system:
1.2 GHz Athlon on AZII E mainboard
-Via Apollo KT133 + 686B (AC97 onboard sound)
Windows ME
2 X 128 Mb PC133 SDRAM
Hercules 3D Prophet II MX (32 Mb) graphics card
LG Flatron 775FT 17" monitor
2 X 60Gb IBM Deskstar hard drives (7200)
Intel HaM Fax Modem
Soundblaster Live CT4830 sound card
16X Pioneer DVD
MS wheelmouse and keyboard

[Alfie]

It sounds like you have an irq conflict.
It's best to have sound on irq 5 and by itself.
Video (agp) should be on irq 9 or higher.(by itself)
You can assign these irqs in bios or you can try changing some values in ME,swapping slots is another approach or trying all 3.

[Cricket]

Hi tycoon,

Can you post your IRQ assignment list.

You may want to go into Windows Safe Mode and then check in Device Manager for duplicate or multiple entries for your sound device and remove the duplicates. Might as well check all your devices while you're in there.

Cricket

[glc]

You may also need to install the Via 4 in 1 drivers first.

[tycoon]

Assignments with sound disabled:
00 System timer
01 Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural Keyboard
02 Programmable interrupt controller
03 COM2
04 COM 1
05 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
05 Intel Ham Data Fax Voice Modem
06 Standard Floppy Disk Controller
07 Printer Port (LPT1)
08 System CMOS/real time clock
09 SCI IRQ used by ACPI bus
10 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
10 VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
10 VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
11 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
11 3D Prophet II MX
12 PS/2 Compatible Mouse Port
13 Numeric data processor
14 VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller
14 Primary IDE conroller (dual fifo)
15 VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller
15 Secondary IDE conroller (dual fifo)

Enabling sound adds:
10 Creative SB Live! Value
without changing anything else.

With just onboard sound enabled it was:
10 Intel Ham Data Fax Voice Modem
10 VIA AC'97 Audio Controller (WDM)
05 VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller

There are no conflicts listed and never have been, though I have read that with Soundblaster cards they sometimes don't show up. Will try changing sound to 5 alone in BIOS

VIA drivers are installed but I didn't do them first thing as I originally thought they were the source of the problem. I have read several different sequences for installing the drivers after installing Windows. Would appreciate any feedback you guys have.

Thanks very much for responses and will post my results after experimentation

[mike breck]

Hi tycoon,

Could also be the Via 686b/Soundblaster Live PCI Latency issue.

Try downloading and installing the patch from the link in this similar thread

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.p...076#post305076

HTH

[tycoon]

Have been following up on mike's suggestion and will do that if can't get IRQ sorted out. Though have installed latest VIA 4 in 1 and sounds like that should have addressed PCI Latency issue. Thanks for valuable insight though!

Update:
More weirdness. First tried changing IRQ with Windows in the Device Manager. After clearing checkbox for 'use automatic settings' and clicking on Interrupt Request it says 'This resource setting cannot be modified'. And this is true for several different devices I tried.

Windows will allow me to change the I/O Range and will also allow me to reserve IRQ's but not change an existing one. Is there a protection setting somewhere else that I can disable? Seems like there must be otherwise what's the point?

In BIOS I enabled onboard sound and it has a default setting of IRQ 5 there, but upon reboot the sound is still assigned to 10 and shared with the modem. Meanwhile nothing is assigned to 5!

Options for setting the onboard sound IRQ are 5/7/9/11 in the BIOS but it appears to be ignoring that. The place in BIOS labelled IRQ (Manual/Auto) gives me a submenu when I choose Manual but all that allows me to do is select PNP/Legacy ISA for the different IRQ numbers

Tried various combinations of all the above and could never get the sound to anything other than 9/10 and shared with modem. This is looking hopeful as a possible solution so I would like to find out how to set the sound to 5 alone.

[mike breck]

Hi tycoon,

You cannot move IRQ's in Windows as long "PNP OS" is set to "Yes" in the bios.

So go into the BIOS and set it to "No"

This will allow the BIOS to allocate the IRQs.

Also disable ACPI - although essential in Win XP, it's more trouble than it's worth in Win 9x.

In addition, if you are not using the two COMM ports for anything (e.g. external modem) disable them in the BIOS. That will free up IRQs 3&4 and allow even more freedom for the BIOS to redistribute the IRQs.

Then exit the BIOS using the option "Exit Saving Changes".

There be some redetection of hardware when you reboot - but don't worry - that's normal.

You may find that the BIOS does a better job of redistributing your IRQs than Windows. Check Device Manager and see.

If the SB has still not taken it's preferred IRQ of 5, then remove all the PCI cards and try the SB in different PCI slots until you've got it on IRQ5. Once it's happy on 5, you can add the other PCI cards back in, one-at-time, and hopefully the critter will stay on 5.

Final note: keep the PCI slot next to the AGP slot free of any cards. This slot shares resources with the AGP slot.

HTH

[tycoon]

It never ceases to amaze me this power of the internet. The ability to share information is such a powerful tool. But it wouldn't work very well without people like you who share your hard earned knowledge with so many people. So a big thanks for some very helpful advice. Here's the latest.

I set PNP OS to NO (it's original default), disabled ACPI and removed the 2 COMM ports. Windows would still not allow any IRQ changes so I moved the SB card from PCI 4 to 5 and despite being furthest from the AGP this was the one that caused interference with the Graphics card, setting both IRQ's to 11. Moving to PCI 3 left it at IRQ 10, as did PCI 2. Strangely however with the Modem card back in PCI 3 and SB in PCI 2 here's what I got:

00 System timer
01 Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural Keyboard
02 Programmable interrupt controller
03 Creative SB Live! Value
03 IRQ Holder for PCI Steering
04 VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
04 VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
04 IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
06 Standard Floppy Disk Controller
07 Printer Port (LPT1)
08 System CMOS/real time clock
10 Intel Ham Data Fax Voice Modem
10 IRQ Holder for PCI Steering
11 3D Prophet II MX
11 IRQ Holder for PCI Steering
12 PS/2 Compatible Mouse Port
13 Numeric data processor
14 VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller
14 Primary IDE conroller (dual fifo)
15 VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller
15 Secondary IDE conroller (dual fifo)

Seems to have a thing about IRQ 5 but at least the SB has its own IRQ now. Might go to 5 if I enabled the COMM ports again but I'm experimenting with it as is. If you're reading this then I've at least made it this far without a freeze (fingers crossed)

So what have I missed with being able to assign IRQ's with Windows? There was an Assign IRQ Manual/Auto selection below the PNP OS selection which I've set at Manual. Also there was some IRQ stuff in the BIOS under a Waking Menu where the various IRQ's were either enabled or disabled and 5 was enabled as an LPT2. Didn't change anything as seemed a bit far afield. I can understand making it difficult for people to change the IRQ's but geez!

[mike breck]

Glad you've made it so far tycoon.

If things are working with the current IRQ setup, then you might want to let it breathe for a while and see if solves the problem.


Re: Some thoughts on the PCI Latency Issue

You said because you had the latest 4in1s, then you didn't think it was necessary to install the Breese Latency Patch.

Theoretically you are correct. VIA released a patch in the 4.31 4in1 driver version onwards.

But...before the VIA patch came along some mobo manufacturers implemented a BIOS tweak in order to solve the problem. However, this caused some problems with data corruption.

So when VIA released the patch, it asked all mobo manufacturers to remove this BIOS tweak so the VIA patch would work. Therefore the tweak was removed from subsequent BIOS revisions.

So the problem is, if someone has an older BIOS that still has the tweak, the VIA patch won't work.

So what's the point of this diatribe, I hear you ask?

If the latest VIA 4in1s don't solve the 686b problem, then a BIOS update might help as well. For all you know, you may have the BIOS version with the tweak.

I think a comprehensive way of trying to solve the the problem would be as follows:

Completely uninstall the Soundblaster and drivers

Flash the BIOS to the most recent version

Install the latest VIA 4in1s

Install SB and drivers

Reinstall the the VIA 4in1s again to "make sure" the patch is installed.


Re: Changing IRQs:

Changing IRQs in Windows 9x (no matter what textbooks say) has always, in practice, been very limited or impossible.

Better to concentrate on the BIOS options.

Some PCI slots share with other slots and some are unshared (sometimes it's just one).

The mobo manual should list this info.

A lot of modern mobos make it slightly easier by allowing you to assign an IRQ to a particular PCI slot. But if your BIOS does not have this option, then that is academic to you.

The place in BIOS labelled IRQ (Manual/Auto) gives me a submenu when I choose Manual but all that allows me to do is select PNP/Legacy ISA for the different IRQ numbers

This can be another way of pushing the SB onto IRQ 5.

You must first identify the IRQs which are used by the PCI slots.

Remove all the PCI cards and enter the BIOS

Reserve all PCI IRQS (and COMM ports as your have them disabled) for Legacy ISA - APART from IRQ 5.

Save BIOS settings and shutdown the PC.

Install the SB into the PCI slot that uses IRQ 5.

Startup and check your work. The SB should be on IRQ5.

Reboot, enter the BIOS, and un-reserve all the other PCI slot from legacy devices (which will leave them free for PCI cards).

Now add your other PCI cards back one a time and see how that affects the IRQs.

It may be that the SB stays on IRQ 5 while the other cards are added. However, you may also find, that putting a card in a particular slot makes the SB jump to another IRQ.

You must try every combination and install order until you find the sequence that allows the SB to stay on IRQ 5.

There is no guarantee that this method will work perfectly, but is always worth a try.

Anyway, leave the SB where it is for a few days and see if it solves the problem. If it does, you can just leave it there.

Altho IRQ 5 is the recommended IRQ for the SB, this is not set in stone, and many people have managed to get it working an a different IRQ without conflicts.


BTW if you are not doing any DOS gaming where you need sound, then disable SB Emulation in Device Manager. This is a well-known trouble-maker and disabling it will free another IRQ.

Finally don't rule out the Breese Latency Patch. It "seems" to have worked in some cases where the VIA patch didn't work.

But I can't prove that.


HTH

[Alfie]

Look at the slots and in bios,assign modem to irq 3 and sound to irq 5.
If the system is working,leave it alone.

[tycoon]

Seems to have fixed the problem. No freezes since getting the sound IRQ to 3. Still have printer and camera to add so hope that doesn't mess up the IRQ's. From reading various boards I think I've gotten lucky. Many people have been unable to solve SB card and VIA chipset problems. See this thread if interested.

http://forums.viaarena.com/messagevi...&threadid=2476

One more huge round of thanks to all of you for your advice and suggestions. Special thanks to Mike for sticking with me and providing such detailed answers. I've saved this thread and if I run into further problems at least I've got a starting point for things to try. The link to the Breese Latency Patch was especially interesting and I got sidetracked just reading through his diary. Where does he find the time?