Motherboard case mount question

[estevek]

I mentioned under Familyman's Scotsman thread that I wanted to do an econo upgrade of my son's computer. Well, the marketpro computer show and sale was in town so I went there and opened my check book. I got the following:

ASUS P4PE $90

Aopen TNT2 M64 AGP PA3000 Plus video card $33

Intel Celeron 2.2 Ghz $83

Samsung 256 MB PC2700 $37

No Name case $29

I think those are pretty good prices, but now I'm faced with an issue I that I didn't expect: How to install the mobo in the case?

The case has 8 bumps with threaded holes that line up with the holes on the motherboard. Can I screw the motherboard down on these bumps without insulating the board????

The case has some rectangular snap in spacers, but they don't line up with the holes on the motherboard.

[RodneyMargis]

No donto screw it diretly to the board , wiht your case there should be some standoffs. they are usually palstic. you put them in the holes on the case then you screw the motherboard onto the standoffs. before you do that make sure you have the faceplate it attaches to teh back of the case that way all of the ports on the back of the motherboard will line up. Hope that helps some. good luck

[Sam Havard]

and also make sure that ur screw are not to long that go through the back. but make sure they go through the face plate. it was just something that came to my mind.

[estevek]

There are no standard spike shaped plastic spacers as I was expecting. The bumps keep the electronics from touching the case, but the bumps which touch the holes are the same material as the case. Can the bumps touch the holes?

[ROYP123]

I don't know what you mean by " bumps " but here is the link to the PCMECH site on " How to build a computer" It shows you how to complete each step.

http://www.pcmech.com/byopc/index.htm

See if it has what you need, and ask if it does not.
HTH

[Redo40]

Be sure all the raised holes line up with the holes on the board, it doesn't take but one out of place to ground the board.

[RodneyMargis]

so they standofs are liek built into the board, i dont knwo if i understand

[Redo40]

No. Don't use insulation in mounting your mobo. The "metal rings" around the mounting holes are indeed for grounding the mobo, but at the points / locations needed. There is a lot of Amps going thru a mobo and need a return for different circuits and such, these "rings" provide that path.

From another thread may help explain it. The quote is TwoRails, hope you don't mind.

[kissfan]

I think I know the what you mean, YES you can mount the board on these 'standoffs', just make sure that they only make contact where they meet the screw holes. Remove all the fixings currently in there and realign everything to make sure you are not going to ground out the board.

HTH

[Cricket]

Originally posted by estevek The case has 8 bumps with threaded holes that line up with the holes on the motherboard. Can I screw the motherboard down on these bumps without insulating the board????

Yes, those "bumps" are the case standoffs and they should line up to the motherboard mounting holes. My InWin case uses "bumps" exactly like what you've described. No insulating washers necessary.

Originally posted by estevek The case has some rectangular snap in spacers, but they don't line up with the holes on the motherboard.

If they don't line up to any motherboard mounting holes, don't worry about them.

Cricket

[RayH]

The brass standoffs screw into the case. The motherboard is anchored to the brass standoffs.

[kissfan]

RayH the case that he has don't need the brass stand offs, it has them built into the mobo tray.

[RayH]

kissfan Stand corrected on the stand offs.

Anyway, estevek can you give us a hint on what OS you are using? If you were planning to move the hard drive intact, there may be a way to do it depending upon what OS you are using and what preparations you make.

[beckx020]

I don't like those bump ones. I have one and was SO worried I'd short something out. But it hasn't so far. It also had those small rectangular plastic pieces and the motherboard I installed required me to use 2 of them. I like the metal standoffs that you screw in.

Good luck with your install!

[estevek]

I want to thank everyone that responded and the wishes of good luck.

I guess the term "built-in standoff" would have been a more accurate term than "bumps" and would have caused less confusion. Oh well, live and learn.

RayH, I am planning to keep the machine a Windows 98 machine, and I was planning to move the hard drive over intact. I wasn't expecting an issue with that, but I could be missing something. If you have any suggestions, I'd certainly appreciate them. Thanks.

Another item. The case came with a Powerlink power supply that has a "compatible" switch on it. The switch choices are "normal" and "on". Any idea on what this may be about? There are no significant instructions with the case.

[RayH]

estevek You can move the hard drive intact with a Windows 9x machine, sort of. But you definitely need to make some preparations!

Go to the Hall of Fame section and search out the ENUM trick.

Basically, you have to have the Windows Cab files on your hard drive when it boots in the new setup. You'll not have access to the CD ROM, nor will it appear in the browse windows. You have to point to folders and files on a hard drive that is active on boot up.

To make life easier, go here: http://www.jermar.com/wdrvbck.htm and get WinDrivers. Put all your device drivers in a single folder and location. Call the folder drivers. To that folder, add the new motherboard drivers from the CD.

You do all the above BEFORE you shutdown the old computer for the last time. Then, when you are ready to dismantle, you delete the ENUM key and shutdown.

If you did what you're supposed to do, when you reboot, you'll PLUG 'N PLAY your whole set up pointing to the Windows Cab files, motherboard drivers, and device drivers as they are called for.

If you miss, just delete the ENUM key and do it again!

Basically, you should be able to Plug and Play your old hard drive to your new setup in about 7 minutes.

[estevek]

RayH you are right, I can't see the cdrom even though I transferred it over with the hard drive. This kind of baffles me since the cdrom doesn't need a driver in Windows 98. The OS should see it as a IDe device like the hard drive.

[RayH]

So, how did the installation go? Did you get the .cab files onto the hard drive or do you need some remedial help?

[estevek]

Since I intended to transfer the CD drive along with the hard drive, and I was so certain (actually stubbornly foolish) the cd drive would work, I moved the hardware without copying the drivers onto the hard drive. And, IT DIDN'T WORK!!!!!!!! . Actually, most things kinda worked except for the CD-ROM drrive. So, I backed out of the install and restored my son's PC to its original state which turned out to be easier than I expected. If I had known the back out was so easy, I wouldn't have tinkered with it for hours.

After thinking about it, I'm guessing that the PCI driver has to be updated for the cd rom drive to be properly recognized. I'll probably try it again in the next few days, but this time with the drivers on the hard drive.

Edited by moderator to allow for proper word wrap and table resizing

[glc]

Did you read the ENUM thread in the Tips and Tricks forum thoroughly?

[TimPoet]

The ENUM trick is a great labor saver. Do find the thread in Tips and Tricks and read it and do it. It's the only way to fly.

[estevek]

If I understand right, you can back out of deleting the enum entries by reverting back to an old registry version. Right? This is important to me in case I have to back out of the install.

Will using the "enum trick" prevent the following kind of messages from the device manager?:

ndis.vxd and ntkern.vxd are unable to load this driver.

[piasabird]

You can always get some thin nylon washers from lowes for added insulation.

[TimPoet]

Originally posted by estevek 1. If I understand right, you can back out of deleting the enum entries by reverting back to an old registry version. Right? This is important to me in case I have to back out of the install. 2. Will using the "enum trick" prevent the following kind of messages from the device manager?: ndis.vxd and ntkern.vxd are unable to load this driver.

1. Yes
2. Dunno

3. Just do it. (after you read the thread thoroughly)

[estevek]

TimPoet, You do have way with words.:-)

[TimPoet]

Thanks, I just used the ENUM trick on the upgrade to my system I did a couple of weeks ago. It's a great tip.

[RayH]

When I use the enum trick, I have a disk image file (ghost) on hand in case the thing gets really ugly. I've had to do it sometimes a couple or three times to get it right.

estevek I believe that you can use X copy to get the cab files on the hard drive. Just boot the new computer (with the old hard drive) with the Windows Startup Disk. You can get the start up disk from the web if you don't have one..

[estevek]

Unfortunately for me, the enum trick didn't do the trick. I still have the same problem from the last time. This is the message in the Device Manager:

"AsusTek/broadband 4404 10/100 Integrated card

This device is not working properly because Windows cannot load the file(ndis.vxd, ntkern.vxd) that loads the drivers for the device. Code 8.

To fix this problem, run Windows setup again using your Windows cd-rom"

My guesses are as follows:

1. My son's version of windows is too old, or

2. The ndis/ntkern modules are corrupt.

I tried installing the network interface (linksys) from my son's old machine but the device driver for that inteface gave me pretty much the same error messsage in the device mgr.

I might try downloading some other drivers from the Asus site which is very hard to do when you can't get the network loaded on the machine your trying to fix. By the way, Asus really isn't too clear as to which driver is the correct one.

I'd like to avoid loading windows from scratch. I heard one could use sfc to extract the pertinent modules from the cd-rom, but I don't know which modules to extract.

The device manager is also complaining about an unknown PCI Universal serial bus device, but I think that's the least of my problems.

If anybody's got any advice, I'd certainly appreciate it. Thanks.

[RayH]

Right click on that unknown PCI Universal serial bus device and see what it is!

[estevek]

Is the sky usually this clear and blue? The sun always this bright? The birds and flowers this pretty?

NO! They only seem that way because I was able to SOLVE the ndis.vxd network driver loading problem. Here’s what happened. I did a Yahoo search on the following words together: NDIS LOAD DEVICE DRIVER. Sure enough, other people had the same problem and posted the solution on another message board. The problem stems from the fact that the Windows 98 ndis.vxd needs a patch to work with processors greater than 2.1 Ghz. So, my whole problem arose because I decided to shell out a few more bucks to get a 2.2 Ghz Celeron for my son’s computer instead of a 2.1 Ghz. I guess good deeds never go unpunished.

The person who posted the problem and solution on the other message board also was nice enough to create a link on his own server to the ndis.vxd patch that solves the problem. Compare this to Microsoft that has a Knowledge Base article (312108) on the problem, but has the gall to require people to call Microsoft and pay for support to get the patch instead of posting it as a download.

I guess this is a wake up call to get away from Windows 98. Maybe this is also a wake up call to get away from Windows too. Maybe not.

RayH, After I solved the ndis.vxd problem, my mind cleared and I quickly resolved the PCI Universal serial bus driver problem.

I want to thank everyone for encouraging me to perform the ENUM trick. I think it was worthwhile. Without it, I probably would have had other lingering problems. I also want to thank everyone else that gave me advice and support.