e-Machines........ any good?

[HAL9000]

Originally posted by racerbrownn all i said was that i noticed that several of the posts that were running this post down had little history of participation and since i have made that statement, the replies were from post historys that show the potential for far greater experience. i never said my comment should apply to everyone and it doesn't. if someone with 5 posts popped up with valid experiences of problems, i count it. i just get annoyed when people like to talk quick crap and not provide any basis of experience for their point of view. thats a easy way to flame and not even be talking about anyting specific. anybody can say something is a pos. giving real experiences makes the statment more valid.

OK... I'll clarify my point of view of a POS. When Futureshop was selling them, being close to their area, people who got ticked off a the POS they got from Futureshop would come to me for thier repairs. What would I find. Cheap power supplies that would blow and take out the motherboard.. lost motherboard? Not really a problem because it was usually a PC Chips. LiteOn CD-Roms... I've had plenty of experience selling and replacing those. LiteOn makes a top rated CDRW, but a real piece of crap for a CD-Rom.. go figure. I've come across a lot of budget RAM in the systems that straight out of the box couldn't pass different RAM testing software. Trigem hard drives... now there's a name we all know and trust right? Well... Trigem are rebadged, REFURBED Samsungs. Samsung HD's were never good to begin with, but hey, lets refurb it and rebadge it.. now it MUST be good.

Now to top it off... for Futureshop to STOP selling them... wow.. they must be good.

[SARGE]

I drive a 1970 VW Bug that cost me $1500 many years ago. It does what I need, which is getting from point A to point B. Would a more expensive vehicle be nicer and more comfortable - of course. However I have no need for those amenities so am happy. Same goes with a PC.

[ja83]

I must be a lucky person, because all my ECS boards work good.

[racerbrownn]

the great part about hal9000's input is that i learn about junk i never knew about. attaboy hal9000!
i still totally agree with hal9000 that i have bought a pc with low end quality parts and risk of problems.
if i knew nothing about pc's, i would stay away.
since i do have limited knowledge [mostly thanks to pcmech!]
i have the confidence to try my luck.
with a backup hdd installed, i feel i have that covered.
i may consider getting another power supply once out of warr.
getting a different motherboard is not too expensive when the rest of the system doesn't have to be replaced.
i knew the risks going into this but with a 1 year warr, i not worried too much for what i consider to be this pc's useful like before it becomes obsolete.

my hat is off to anyone willing to stand in a line at 4:30 in the am to get a doorbuster deal like that!

like you can really go wrong at that price with a warr!

and we're onto 3 pages, awsome........ next!

[edfair]

Since the start of the thread I've repackaged 4 systems into mid tower cases because of blown power supplies. Fortunately no other parts went out. This customer bought around 10 and commented on the last one " Well, it looks like we just blew another one".
And just before the thread I ended up repackaging one because the power on switch button broke. Nothing like having totally propriotory parts that can break but can't be replaced for lack of availability.

[racerbrownn]

and there's proof that you don't have to have alot of posts to know what you're talking about! just look at the experience just shared during the time of this post. this is the kind of input we all can learn from.
swapping a box is not that hard if need be and not very expensive either if nothing else got damaged.

thanks edfair for your insite and time as well as all who have provided real world experiences that we can learn from, or at least be prepared for -[ emachines will hear from me if this problem happens to me] and i'll know what i'm talking about - maybe...

thankx, ray [darn this is a good learning experience as well as good clean fun]

p.s. to edfair how did you handle the emachines special shaped cdrw drive face when you swapped the parts into a different box?

[BARNEY]

The latest eMachine uses an FIC AU31 mATX mainboard. It is non-propriatary. However, there are no bios updates. I tested one for a local PC enthusiast mag - this one here

http://www.e4me.com/products/product...Machines_T2865

The power suppy has been changed to the enhance brand - still only 250W but it's on as long as you don't load the box up too much. I tested it against and with other consumer PC's. It did very well with the Nvida Nforce2 MCP-T chipset and an XP2800.It's no Dell XPS, or Alienware, but it held its own. I put in a stock 9800 Pro and got 16138 3Dmarks (2001SE), not too bad. Would make a nice entry level gaming PC.

I also have my own shop, and regularly build PC's, and I don't see any more eMachines than other brands, except the older ones with the 100-150w power supplies. I stock the enhance 250 at the shop just for thos older mATX cases (HP's Emachines) and it works alot better for them.

[racerbrownn]

hopefully i might get lucky with my newer version. i'll have to look tonight and see if mine is setup as described.

lots of good detailed info in this thread. thanks to all who contribute to help make this one of the best sites for pc info and repair!

[HAL9000]

Will have to see how the FIC's stand up... not to fond of those either.

[BARNEY]

That's certainly inderstandable Hal, from a bios options standpoint. moreover, they typically don't offer too much for DIY enthusiasts. However your free to look at the new line of boards they have here

http://www.fica.com/site/html/products/mb.asp

I run an FIC AU13 in my littel rig. It's the Chameleon Max - Ultra 400. Currently im at 220x9.5 - FIC did omit the SATA on some thier line of Nforce2, but did include passive cooling on the southbridge, and has all the bios options you could want, and it's nice and stable. Here's the line of FIC Nforce2 boards and Intel boards.

http://www.fica.com/site/html/products/mb.asp

They have done alot of OEM business over the years, but have occasionally branched out to enthusiast boards. The FIC AU13 was picked my Maximum PC as the Budget Alternative next to the Rig of the Year Intel box. Not too shabby.

The eMachine implementation of the FIC AU31 mATX is actually not bad at all, it benches just as fast as the Asus A7N8X Deluxe in with both in stock trim. I do see thepoint Hal is getting at, because eMachines had Horrid problems with the older PSU's, with the older Etowers, and Emonsters. But they actually took a step up in power supplies to the level of the Biostar IDEQ, and Shuttle SFF boxes - they run fine also. I would not rate many of the past eMachines so well except the Emonsters ..excluding the weak power supplies. This model however rocks for the money, if you dont care to overclock. You can still pop in an XP3000 @ 333 FSB. Like I said if you want to upgrade to an XP3200, or overclock the XP2800 you would probably have to just swap out the FIC AU31 for a Biostar M7NCG 400 (ultra 400). Additionally, you can dremel out (or use tin snippers and use moding for edges) around the PSU then you can use an Antec 350 Blue or whatever standard ATX. If I a regular consumer and was strapped for cash, I would buy it myself, and add a 9800 Non pro. The mobo could be switched out for something like the 865 G (intel) later If I liked with a P4 3.2 after the warranty was up and I would of course use a new copy of XP home.

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...ium%2C4%2CProc

[imbest123]

Id still get it for that price. Emachines on normal price is bad but with prices that low its worth it.

[racerbrownn]

well, at least they aren't using samsung hard drives anymore.
mine has a wd caviar 40 gig.
the psu is bestec 250 watt. [not familiar with that one]
256 mb samsung ddram. [ditto on the ram, like their hdds?]
couldn't spot a name on the motherboard. just know that it has the extreme graphics chip onboard.

just installed my maxtor 40 gig hdd as backup and ghosted the whole thing over.

funny how the backup hdd is listed as e and the cdrw is d.
so much for windows setting logical drives first in the alphabet.
[both hdd's are on the primary channel with cable select and the cdrw is alone on secondary.]

any ideas whether the graphics chip mentioned would require the fic board? this is pc #t2542

thanks, ray.

[BARNEY]

You mean the ATI 9800? In that case no it does not require the FIC mainboard.But unfortunately you don't have an AGP slot to use an AGP video card. You can however run a PCI 5600 NVIDA card. You can get it here

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...2C%2D%2CRetail

It's an FX5200 PCI card, not too bad, better than the shared video you have. In the future look for systems that have AGP slots. I would get that 5200 though if you care about any kind of video performance, if not, stick with that you have.

[racerbrownn]

yeah, i know there is no agp slot which is why i made sure it had the 860 chip [i think that's it]. i don't really have a need for better graphics right now and am just happy it doesn't have the old 845 chip.

i made a note about your suggestion in case i change my mind, thankx, ray.

any ideas as to the quality level of the power supply brand?

[Confused]

Emachines aren't for 99% of the posters to this forum. We tend to be power users that need more than emachines can offer.

But, and this is a big BUT, with about 25,000 members we are probably less than 1/1000 of 1% of computers in the world. The way my wife, sister, mother and brother-in-law use a PC a emachine will meet the needs far cheaper than I, or anyone else can build one.

PC's are fast approaching the disposable item status like appliances. Like can openers, toasters, coffee makers, ect. PC's are getting cheap enough that people will simply replace them when they fail.

Chas

[fudtone]

I have used the Samsung RAM a few times and it hasn't given me any troubles.

[escher]

you get what you pay for. i think the 'e' in 'eMachines' stands for economy :X

[escher]

p.s. samsung ram is excellent but yes their drives suck

[Parangles]

Money was very tight when I bought 6 E machines for our travel agency for about $399 ea after rebates, although they had a terrible reputation ( because they're cheap ?)
They have not given a single problem in over 9 months, even with 8 -10 hours use a day.

[Confused]

Originally posted by Parangles Money was very tight when I bought 6 E machines for our travel agency for about $399 ea after rebates, although they had a terrible reputation ( because they're cheap ?) They have not given a single problem in over 9 months, even with 8 -10 hours use a day.

My point exactly. Vast majority of PC use isn't power use. It's everyday web access and checkbook balancing along with some solitaire and free cell playing. Emachines will handle the task fine and when it breaks you pitch it and go buy another one just like when the can opener quits.
Chas

[BARNEY]

The T2865 is a mid range power machine. Note..it does have a DVD-R/RW drive. I realize most of he users in here are power users, but I also see plenty running SIS 735 XP2100-2400 rigs, and Kt266a, KT400 rigs - the T2865 is actually more of a power rig than many users have in here.

[escher]

a junky motherboard with a new chipset isn't gonna even be as good as a good mobo with an older chipset. usually, a home-built PC will run circles around a store-bought one performance-wise.

[edfair]

racer,
I left the front sticking out. Looks kind of funny, but the customers haven't minded since the boxes are all under desks.
Had to replace the floppies, however, to make them look a little better since the "behind the bezel" types have less than full coverage.
And in my discussing the problems I have run across I forgot to mention the one I upgraded for the broken front switch. I ended up with the m/b and put it in a box at home to use with a burner. Customer upgraded everything except the hard drive and OS. I kept the usable stuff.

[racerbrownn]

thankx, ed. good points, confused [which you are clearly not]

about the newer chipset, a junky motherboard with a old slower graphics chip is also not as good as a junky old motherboard with a faster graphics chip.

and to mention again, i have built several systems but this time i just wanted a basic pc with new versions of software and operating sys and modern cpu hardware etc.
i bought it for what i planned to use it for. i saw no need to spend hundreds more for common everyday usage.
i got the newer software and a pc to boot for less.

i know a friend who got caught up in ordering a new system and before he was done, he was on the hook for over $3000 and had a system that he will never come near to using fully.
he will use it for similar tasks such as what i expect to use mine for as well.

lets not get so caught in the hipe that we build for what we think would be cool instead of what we need. whats new and fast gets old and slow way too quick.

if i really wanted..... no, needed a power box, i would build it.
just don't need it right now.
if i don't beat on this pc and it remains reasonably dependable and convenient, what the hey.

[jimmyrules712]

my family has gone through4 emchiens systems since 1999. i dunno about the first one but the next 2 both had seagate HD's, so not bad there (i havnt opened the newest one i got so i dunno any parts it uses.) they both had kingston value ram, never heard of the psu brands tho, Illisan is something liek that, they both are only 120 watt. All i know about the mobos is they are intel 810 chipset.

ALl in all i dont think emachiens is a bad as people make them out, power users just get frustrated when the y find they cant upgrade much, or overclock much, as far as reliability, well all 4 of my emachiens (even the one my dad bouhgt in 1999, with a via cyrix cpu, 32 mb of ram, 1 gig HD, is still running fine, altho ive upgraded the ram to 96, and my grampa just uses it for email and solitair, it still runs

[BARNEY]

Originally posted by escher a junky motherboard with a new chipset isn't gonna even be as good as a good mobo with an older chipset. usually, a home-built PC will run circles around a store-bought one performance-wise.

Escher, do you know anything about the FIC AU31. Seems not. How is the FIC AU31 a junky mainboard? Do you know this for fact. You the theory about home built running circles around Pre- Built is usually not the case unless the home built users really, and I mean really knows his stuff, because the more variables you have to change in the bios also leaves more room to make a mistake. I also see alot of trash come into my shop that are home builts. Just because you DIY does not mean that you have an uber machine. You could have the ram timings wrong, you could have done a crap job of wiring. You might not have DMA toggled on yout HDD because the latest bios release you think you know everything about disables it and you have to manually toggle it in the device manager. There are users that hang out here and at other nice forums that simply know how put it together, but don't know much about optimizing. FIC AU 31 is simply an Nforce2 MCP-T mobo just like many here buy at newegg, except you cant change mulipliers or FSB. Pure gamers don't care about that - they just want it to run well, run fast, and be reliable.

[HAL9000]

Well... I'll state it again.. been in the computer biz for several years.. know most of the guys here in town that are in it too.... I see the budget store selling FIC and the guys in there hate em... too high of a failure rate... over 10% in the first year... I sell strictly ASUS or Intel... current failure rate.. less than 1% in the first TWO years. So when I comment a board is junk... I'm looking at the long term... 10% failure = junk.

[SARGE]

We still have an old CTX computer bought at Comp USA many moons ago. It has a PII-266 and does all we want it to do. Had to upgrade the graphics card for games a few years ago. At one time it was my "prize" machine and then we got a Gateway PII-450 for momma and started building from there. All 4 are still on a home network and work nicely together. I've helped some folks with some dinosaur PCs and they function as the owner likes. Most don't need a hotrod and agreed most use a PC for simple tasks along with some Net access. That is the majority of folks. The bugger bear comes in to play when trying to upgrade.

[escher]

HAL i agree.....

BARNEY for one i was referring to ECS motherboards, not FIC. But really, FIC is pretty low-end too. I will tell you I wouldn't repair/build a machine with one. I stick with Asus or Abit unless someone requests something different (which doesnt happen often). Why do I do this? Because problems are RARE with those manufacturers. The quality and performance is always there.
And yes, it's all about optimization and having quality components when it comes to making a custom machine outperform a percievably faster (mhz-wise or whatever) store-bought one.
But again, this all rides on the knowledge of the builder and how far one is willing to push the limits of the hardware.

[BARNEY]

Hal, you know as well as I that it depends on "what" shop were talking about. FIC has puts out budget boards, but by definition of budget in thier case it really means OEM boards without too many options. Abit uses ECS factories to stamp out mainboards guys. You would be suprised what actually goes on in the industry. ECS is a different budget board type than FIC was. Keyword "was". ECS sells way more mainboards than anyone else in the industry, and....Asus CEO recently came onboard with ECS. ECS has in the past used SIS alot, which many don't like, but some do. SIS has been, and is a budget chipset, not for the above average enthusiast.

Just hearing that a "shop" has a 10% failure rate means nothing to me really, because I know different from my experience. Every board maker has bad "lot's" of mainboards that get out of the factory before the flaw is caught. Some shops get a higher failure rate because of lack of expertise on thier part Hal. They could be using a "certain" power supply for thier "main" builds that actually have a variance on one or more of the rails on the PSU, causing what they think as a dead board, or a "failing" board. I have personally seen this in a shop, and the manager did not listen to the tech about the PSU's - consequently 13 rigs went out the door like this, and boards were later about to be RMA'd (6 out of the 13) and I physically showed him that the supposedly good PSU was dumping wild rails on these mainboards. Problem solved, but could have been just another % of failure--right?

DFI makes solid product in my experience - just not too many option in the bios..again mostly OEM builds. But they are changing, as is ECS to a smaller extent. Asus also has a budget outfit in AsRock.