Advice for parts on second build please

[JTH]

This will be my second build, or more precisely, an upgrade from my first, now out-dated build. Although I am a fairly tight budget, I want to bring this computer up to a high enough spec to run all of todays games at reasonable speed. I don't need perfection and I am willing to wait some loading time, but I'd like a good performance from the likes of Flight Simulator 2004 and Deus Ex 2. Okay, on to the parts themselves:

Mobo: No idea really. I'm a bit out of touch with the latest models. I'm going the P4 route so would I be correct in buying Asus or Intel? What are nice budget models?

CPU: As above, P4. I'm aiming for either a 2.6 or a 2.8ghz depending on prices. What's the performance difference between the Prescott and Northwood cores and is there anything else I should be looking out for?

RAM: PC3200 if I can afford it. I'd like to have two sticks of 256mb on dual-channel if possible.

Graphics: With my budget, the only way I'll get a 256mb would be with a Sapphire Radeon or something. Any suggestions for this and/or any other good budget cards?

PSU: The machine I'm upgrading has only a 250w but it has a "Supports P4" sticker on the side. Will I need to upgrade this and if so what is a good choice replacement?

Cooling: I'm not overclocking for the moment so what extra cooling will I need, if any?

Sound Card and Speakers: Not looking for perfection but a good enough setup to play MP3's and DVD's well.

I have the HDD, keyboard, mouse, monitor and case already from the old build. I will be buying everything from Ebay as I am from Ireland, Newegg don't ship internationally and there's no other good, cheap hardware sellers available to me.

Thanks in advance for all the advice, JTH

[Force Flow]

What's your budget?

Ebay's not the best place to get electronic parts. You're taking a risk when you buy them there.

Motherboard: Have you taken a look here yet? http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.p...threadid=87156

Asus and Intel both make good boards. Try to stick with an Intel chipset, though.

CPU: glc and I were discussing the prescott/northwood pros and cons this morning in the channel. A prescott runs hot, so you'd need to stick on a different HSF, it has a higher cache, but more pipelines that negate that, and it OCs fairly well. So the only good thing going for it was the OCing. If you're not OCing, stick with a northwood.

RAM: Kingston or Crucial. Corsair for OCing. Try to get CAS 2.5, especially if you're OCing

Graphics: At the very least, a radeon 9600 pro 128MB. You probably won't notice any difference between 128MB and 256MB cards.

PSU: I'd suggest a 350W with builds nowadays. Antec, Astec, Enermax, Enlight, Fortron Source, HEC, Hi-Power, NSpire, PowerMan, PC Power & Cooling, Sparkle Power and Verax are all good brands.

Cooling: If not OCing, then yes, stock is fine. You may need a rear fan if the case doesn't have one already.

Sound: You could probably get a SB live! 5.1 for less than $30. As for speakers, what are you looking for? 2.1? 5.1?

[Kov-Ice]

Keep in mind that if you want to overclock, stay with an ASUS motherboard. I don't believe Intels allow it.

[mikezel]

Heres a quick thing i came up with. I'm not sure of the prices so you might have to make changes to fit your budget

Mobo: ASUS P4P800 SE

CPU: Intel P4 2.8C

RAM: Corsair Value Select PC3200 (2x256) - assuming you're not OC'ing

Video Card: 9800Pro if you can afford it, if not check out the Sapphire Radeon 9600xt

Cooling: Like FF said stock is okay for not OCing, but you might need another case fan

Audio: The onboard audio on the p4p800 is very good. propably as good as the sb live! 5.1. As for speakers, the Logitech z640s are a really good deal, and I love 'em...

As for the PSU, I don't think 250W could cut it. Go for at least 350, from any of the brands force suggested

hope that helps
mike

[JTH]

I'm not 100% sure of my budget but it's fairly tight, no more then a few $100. I don't like the risks of Ebay any more then anyone but I really have no where else to buy from, I guess I will just have to be careful.

I've found some promising P4P800 deluxe models on Ebay. Is there much of a difference between these and the SE's? Many are barebone, but is that a real problem considering I can just download the drivers and manual from the Asus website? What's an I/O shield? It says it doesn't include that either. And in relation to the sound, I'm not sure what quality speakers I'll need. What's a good budget set for nice quality DVD's and CD's?

Thanks, JTH

[glc]

The SE is the replacement for the original non-Deluxe. You will need an I/O shield - that's the rectangular "mask" at the back of the case that the ports stick through. It *will* work if you knock out the original shield and leave it open, but it's not a good idea from a RF leakage and airflow aspect.

A 250 watt power supply is not enough for a high powered video card. If you weren't going to game and would be using onboard video, it would be sufficient as long as it's high quality.

Have you looked at the various vendors in the UK/GB such as Dabs, Ebuyer, and Komplett?

Budget optical drives - look at LG.

I'm going to get a blast for this, but if your budget is seriously tight, you can consider a Radeon 9600SE. Yes, I know it's a crippled card, but it *IS* DX9 compliant and will do a pretty fair job if you keep the resolution and effects down to something reasonable. It's in the same class as the Nvidia FX5200 but in my opinion is a better card.

You need to decide what you want from speakers - 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, etc. Logitech seems to be hard to beat in any of these configurations for the price.

[JTH]

This board looks nice:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...EBWA%3AIT&rd=1

If it stays within the reasonable price it's at, is there any reason why I shouldn't bid for this??

[Cricket]

That's a good motherboard...too bad the auction ended already.

Cricket

[JTH]

Yes I was just outbid at the last minute. Anyways, I will keep looking and post any promising results here. I found that my PSU is actually 300W not 250W as I had thought. Will it still need to be replaced with a 350W?

[ja83]

It's probably a good idea to get at least a 350w PSU from a known company.

[glc]

If it's a quality brand 300 watt, it should be just fine as long as you don't put a power hog video card in it.

[BARNEY]

I would go with Fortron power 350.

[JTH]

Just found out it's made by Advance. Are they a good or bad company? Will a new PSU be needed to ye think?

Thanks, JTH

[JTH]

Just found a really nice-looking boxed P4P800-VM. What's the difference between the VM and the Deluxe edition? The Deluxe appears more expensive. What are the integrated graphics like on the VM and how will they compliment my graphics card? And finally, does the VM support dual-channel?

Auction finishes in 45 mins so a speedy reply would by MUCH appreciated. Thanks, JTH

[mikezel]

the difference is the integrated video. as for how the video will complement your graphics card: it won't. You can only use one or the other. If youre getting an AGP card and not planning on using only the integrated video, theres not point in getting one with it.

yes it has dual channel. but unless its a really great deal, go with the deluxe (the vm doesnt have firewire)

mike

[Cricket]

Originally posted by JTH Just found a really nice-looking boxed P4P800-VM. What's the difference between the VM and the Deluxe edition?

The VM is a micro-ATX motherboard with on-board graphics.

Originally posted by JTH What are the integrated graphics like on the VM and how will they compliment my graphics card?

Most on-board graphics are okay for everyday stuff and some older games, but they're not good for the newest games. And you would use only the graphics card or the on-board graphics, not both at the same time.

Originally posted by JTH And finally, does the VM support dual-channel?

Yes.

Cricket

[JTH]

Okay but I could use an AGP card instead of the onboard graphics? Are there any differences other then the Deluxe model having Firewire?

JTH

[JTH]

Two more questions!! Will micro ATX fit my standard case and what are the E-Deluxe and SE models?

[Cricket]

Originally posted by JTH Okay but I could use an AGP card instead of the onboard graphics?

Yes.

Originally posted by JTH Are there any differences other then the Deluxe model having Firewire?

Comparison Chart

Originally posted by JTH Two more questions!! Will micro ATX fit my standard case and what's the e-deluxe model?

Yes.

Cricket

[Jackothedon]

JTH I suggest you checkout

www.ebuyer.co.uk a british site which has very good deals on all components.

[JTH]

I have bought off them before and they have a flat courier fee of £25 to the Republic of Ireland ($45-$50). Added to that they seem to add additonal VAT at the checkout as an addition to the VAT already on the items. I have priced the new build on Ebuyer and it has come out really expensive but thanks for the suggestion anyway

[Jackothedon]

Another idea would be to go to a Computer fair, i'm sure you can find out one somewhere in Ireland. Cheapest prices, plus sometimes they help you install everythign *for instance my friend installed mY CPU, and heatsink for me'

[JTH]

Would it be a mortal sin to buy one of the OEM boards? They seem to be the only reasonable ones I can find. I reckon I can download the manual and drivers, it's just the I/O shield I'm worried about. I suppose I could buy one in a seperate auction or can the board be used without one?

Auction ends in 40 mins. Thanks, JTH

P.S. What's the sound like on the P4P800 Deluxe? Would it be better then this card for example: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=4131274917 ??

[Redfallon]

I think you want to get one with the IO shield, if the board doesn't include it (oem, refurb, open box auction, etc) I have seen them listed on ebay for <$10. The onboard sound on the p4p800 is good enough for most applications, the only time you'd really notice a difference going to like, an audigy card or what have you, is if you're really into audio, editing, listening, recording, etc, IMHO. There's an argument that onboard sound hogs cpu clock cycles, and slows the system down, especially in newer games, I guess it's a personal choice more than anything.

[JTH]

Okay I just bought a retail P4P800-deluxe. Next step graphics or CPU? For CPU I'm thinking P4 2.8 if I can afford it. Does the 2.6 come in 800mhz? Not sure about graphics, need a budget card that will still perform.

JTH

[JTH]

I have a few P4 2.8's shortlisted. In the meantime, what kind of budget graphics should I be looking for?

[fedz]

9600 graphics would be good. www.aria.co.uk is cheaper than ebuyer and has better deliveries and customer support.
2.8 is the same price as the 2.6 but more powerful.
Yes, the 2.6 comes in a 'c' version (800mhz bus). Go for kingston value RAM, that's generally decent.

[JTH]

Wow, this graphics card seems great:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...131235004&rd=1

It works out at about $161, which seems like good value to me. Could someone please tell me if there is a catch in this deal or something not good about this card? It ends in about five hours so is it worth going for?

P.S. Out of interest, does it work so 'A' CPU's are 400mhz FSB, 'B' are 533mhz FSB and 'C' are 800mhz FSB?

[JTH]

Also this one looks good:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...132344875&rd=1

Comments? Thanks, JTH

[glc]

All "A" CPU's are 400 except the 2.4A, that's a 533 FSB Prescott.

I wouldn't get either card - 256mb is a waste of money. $161 is too much for that first card. 128mb is plenty, and any 9600 is fine unless you are a real hardcore gamer. The SE is entry level, the straight 9600 is next, followed by Pro, then XT.