Mass starvation in Afganistan!

[tedthebear]

I hope our government won't let these children starve:


A fact-finding mission from the British-based Oxfam called for a cease-fire and secure zones to help deliver food as part of several proposals to meet a ``terrible humanitarian crisis.''

``Those involved in seeking to address the crisis now predict tens of thousands may be dead by the end of next month, more than 100,000 children dead by the end of winter,'' the Oxfam report said.

[pcoopers]

I'm ambivalent towards that one. Hunger and starvation should be a priority with us all the time, everywhere. Not only is that the decent, human attitude, it is also the Christian thing to do.

However, we ain't the responsible party, since the situation was already there.
True, our actions may have made a bad situation worse, but the refugee camps were
in place long before 9-11, the masses were already in turmoil, starvation was already a threatening spectre if not a reality.

Sorry, I can't say Yea or Nay, I think a middle of the road attitude leaning toward humanitarian aid is the correct thing here.

[aym]

People in Afghanistan are suffering, and the reason of this is both USA and the terrorist, they need urgent help!

[LawyerRon]

Quote:
"People in Afghanistan are suffering, and the reason of this is both USA and the terrorist, they need urgent help!"

I agree. They were much better off under the Taliban. After ridding the country of 70% of their Teachers and 40% of their Doctors by forbidding women to work, the Taliban was in a much better position to concentrate on their Opium trade. This really benefited the people of Afghanistan. They became an economic powerhouse under the Taliban's brilliant Islamic dictates. It's a real shame the Americans had to spoil their little party.

Get a clue. PLEASE.

[SARGE]

And the preacher said, "AMEN".

[clydefo]

Well, how nice! We Americans can glow with pride and slap our red white and blue bumper stickers on our cars, confident that we are once again, blameless in another international geo-political fiasco.

Just as we have no foresight, we also have no hindsight. Not even a decade. We conveniently forget that we used Afghanistan as a proxy in our cold war with the Soviets and then just walked away from the devastation when the Soviets pulled out. It was a perfect opportunity to rebuild a nation upon democratic principles and give ourselves a justified presence in an unstable region and we blew it. We have failed to learn from our elders of “The Greatest Generation”. They did not walk away from Western Europe, Japan, Philippines, Greece, South Korea, et al, after the wars of the 20th Century. They seized the opportunity for “nation building”, only they called it “building strategic and trading partners” rather than giving it a right-wing derogatory code name to justify a short-sighted and dangerous isolationism. And don’t accuse me of blaming America first. I put us about fifth, behind the Taliban, Soviets, British Empire, and Pat Buchanan.

[aym]

Taliban is the main cause of Afghanistan sufferings, I saw people celebrating the end of taliban government.
The USA bombing of Afghanistan made things worse for people there.
The whole world should help Afghanistan, not only USA...

[LawyerRon]

The problem I see in Afghanistan is the country is still very "tribal", meaning it's like many little countries in one. There are ethnic hatreds between the tribes and local warlords that go back centuries.

[pcoopers]

Lawyer Ron mentioned the causes of problems in Afghanistan.

If anyone cares to understand causes, we gotta go way back, to the British empire, and beyond.

Is Afghanistan even a "nation"? Nyecht. Of course, I've read that Italy is not a "nation" by the strictest definition of the word. Look at both countries, and you can find a lot of similarities, if you know what to look for. At the bottom of it all, as Lawyer said, their cultures are tribal in nature.

Add to this, the fact that every political, religious, or other wacko faction in history has passed through the area to stir things up, and of course they can't be a "nation". Unless and until they form a nation, they will be a nobody in this world of ours.

If there is any "best" thing we can do for them, it would be to send agricultural aid, to help them get in position to feed themselves. At the same time, their borders need to be sealed, to keep everyone else out. For instance, Al Queda.

Realistically, if one or another political or religious faction gains the upper hand in that country, it is really no one else's business. At least not until that faction starts murdering it's citizens, like Idi Amin, or Pol Pot, or even the Taliban. We can't force them to be like us, any more than the Soviets could force anyone to be Soviet.

Yes, they need help, but they won't get it in the form they really need it.

[pcoopers]

Really, Clyde.

We can't remember from 1 election to the next!

The day my nation elected a dope pusher, draft dodger, murderer, and the son of a murderer to the white house, I lost any faith in the judgement of the masses.

[tedthebear]

Dope pusher? Draft dodger? Murderer? Son of a murderer? These could apply to both Clinton and George Bush...please elaborate.

[pcoopers]

I really think you would have to play Slick Willy's game of parsing to apply all those terms to George Jr. All those terms apply to Slick Willy, in the everyday, layman's terms, understandable English sense. While many an American envies Willie, and wishes they could be like him, I thank God I ain't.

I'm undecided how good or how bad a man George Jr is, but I breathed a sigh of relief when America decided to put a man back in the white house. 8 years with neither a man nor a woman was 8 years to long.

[NickLuto]

I'm just glad that Al Gore (you know...the "I invented the internet" guy) isnt in the white house. Oh my. If he was in there instead of being almost rid of the taliban government and Al-Quida in Afghanistan he would have still been giving his "this is not fair" speeches about how (insert random word that he made up himself that he uses for terrorist) flew planes into the WTC..jeez that guy is an idiot.


Nick

[tedthebear]

"I'm undecided how good or how bad a man George Jr is, but I breathed a sigh of relief when America decided to put a man back in the white house."

Nobody put him back in the White House. We all know he stole the election!

[pcoopers]

Ted, You been hibernating?

1st, if you believe Gore won, it wasn't Georgie who stole it. The Supreme Court ruled on a mess of an election, if any error or wrongdoing as a result, the 9 justices bear responsibility.

2nd, Al was the attempting thief. It was indeed a close election. It was Al's
team's idea to try to steal some of George's votes. Get real folks. I sometimes leave blank spaces on ballots, as an ineffective way to tell the dummies that neither choice is any good. Al wanted every blank vote, every wrinkled vote, every dimpled vote, every smudged vote, etc. In the end, no matter what criteria was used to recount, uh, unusual? ballots, Georgie still won by a slim margin.

Do yourself a favor Ted. Shutdown the 'puter, walk outside, and admire the moon, stars, flowers if any where you are, just run a quick reality check.
You'll be better off for it.

[Computer Hobbyist]

I really don't want to rain on your Clinton Bashing Party, but I thought the issue had something to do with starving women and children in Afghanistan. Well, if we have a desire for long term survival as a civilization, we need to be doing all we can do to stop starvation in Afghanistan. The last thing we want is to make the mistake of America's (and the world's) leaders after the Russian/Afghan war (or WWI,) and leave the victims of the war to their own devices. We either make friends now by feeding them, and helping their economy (so they can feed themselves next season) or we can plan on going back when something really evil grows up beyond the Khyber Pass. I am not saying we should occupy the country after UBL is gone, but we can and should put our money to work in that God forsaken place. Occasionally, the right thing is also the smart thing.

By the way, I have a similar theory that we should be working hard to become close friends and neighbors with the Russians. I guess, coming from HST's hometown, I am sensitive to the idea that winning the peace is a lot less dangerous than winning the war.

CH

[glc]

Folks - we are getting a bit off topic here, let's not do any more Clinton/Gore/Bush bashing. We closed the Political forum for a reason!

[alan]

Without trying to be selfish I believe once UBL, the Taliban and Al Queda are declared finished, we should pack our bags and go home. Our job primary objective has been completed.
If the Afghans want redevelopment help, they can ask. I don't think there is any doubts in our minds that we are willing to help. But there is a price to be paid by Afghans for that US help. They must be willing to adapt their culture to a free market democracy. There is no way we would or should just cut them a huge check and let them do what they want. There is basic infrastructure, education, medicial, sanitation and economic requirements to make them a productive self sustaining country. The old warlord and tribal factions cannot make it. I must admit I do not know what product or servce they could provide at an economic advantage but there has to be something they can do to be productive in this world. Any people who have gone through the warfare and hardships as the Afghans must be able to go through the peaceful stages of forming an economic base. It may be even harder than war but certainly worth the effort.
The problem is that if they do conform to a free market democracy, other Arab and Islamic states will see it as the US once again interfering with their culture by ram rodding our "infidel" values down their throats when they are down at their lowest. That is why I see our roles in the bombings and our roles in economic development as two separate issues.