Should a vote be asked of the country?

[Toaster]

Howdy folks,
I was discussing the Sep.11 attacks and a heated discussion followed about the disposition of those responsible. Many foks said simly:
" A nation wide emergency poll to ask the American peoples what they wish to see done"

This makes sence to me. To let those that were hurt/killed to make the final decision. When (not if) those that are accountable are brought to American justice, they should simply be jailed while the American populace decides their fate. Some claim to want a public execution, some want a simple execution per law. Some want him jailed for life. (big mistake IMHO)

Why not make those responsible be judged by the American populace as a whole?
We bomb, strafe and generally annoy 3rd world counties so the above should be easy to institute and execute.

If the United States of America is to be the worlds policemean and your typical super hero, should we not exact swift and unilatteral punishment?

We of the USA run to help those in need on most occaision and to put down unrest. Still, we tie our hands when it comes to administering punishment.
Per typical for our fair country, were Bin lanen be captured, the trial would last weeks or months and cost Billions before the lousey phuck finally died.
We needn't spend billions, just ask those that were affected directly.

[highrisemech]

I'm no scholar but in my opinion we should follow the laws
put fourth in our Constitution.

If we did not we would not be any better than the enemy we are fighting.

[Kubie]

Toaster,
Since the terrorism affected the whole country, we should all get a vote.


highrisemech,
I agree with what you say.


From Carlgif,
Make sure he doesn't get to our shores alive. If he comes here for trial, the bleeding heart liberals and their spokespeople, the media, would turn this country upside down worse then it already is.


Carl

[AzCoastie]

I agree with highrisemech!

Too many people have died defending our Constitution for us to just throw it away so we can punish one man!

IMHO, no matter what a Jury decides Bin Laden's punishment should be, he will have to answer to a higher power for what he's done!

[Kubie]

AzCoastie,
Agree with you too!!
Carl

[M. A. Dockter]

The terrorists should receive a fair military tribunal right before being hung in the Capital Dome. That's my vote

Remember what happend during the last national election.....?

[Toaster]

Howdy folks,
Were I offered to vote on this, I would consider the following were it the concensous. Construct a "private gallows" on the WTC site. Those directly involved
would be offered the right to attend. Otherwise, a public execution on the same grounds. I think this may be supported by the constitution and our founding fathers. Our action/reaction should be swift and harsh.
The cremated remains of Bin Laden would then be offered at public auction with a start bid of 20 million that would be applied to a national monument to be situated on the grounds of the effected sites.

[Computer Hobbyist]

highrisemech has my vote. If we don't stand for something (in this case our Constitution and laws) we stand at the same time for both anything and nothing.

CH

[highrisemech]

I'm not trying to take one side of the street or the other, because that in fact has not yet been decided. Personally if I had my way I'd be parading his head on a stick down the streets of New York and I even think this punishment is to good for this scum. All I said is that we should follow the Constitional laws,now lets not go blowing this out of context. His fate is yet to be decided.

[SARGE]

Assuming, of course, he actually is responsible.

[Paul Victorey]

I highly disagree. The justice system of our country exists BECAUSE mobs are not an effective system of justice.

If we throw away the principles about which the country is run, what, really, do we fight for? If we only allow our laws, our precepts, and our ideals to apply when those ideals and laws are convenient, then we have no true laws or ideals.

If we DID something like this, then he has succeeded in destroying a key component of the American way of life -- the fact that the laws and precepts apply equally to every case. Do this, and he'd certainly die, but he'd also accomplish his goals.

In fact, in the aftermath of Sept. 11, Americans pose more of a threat to America than Bin Laden ever could. Bin Laden could never destroy America; no outside force can destroy something which is more about ideals than about land and people. By trying to goad us into freely giving up what he could never take, by provoking us into giving up the ideals which define America, he can trick us into destroying America for him.

So I definately think he should be punished, but he should be punished in accordance with all the laws of the United States of America. If we truly believe in this nation, and its ideals, then we cannot give up those ideals, and the laws, just to punish one person, no matter HOW many people he killed.

[bob]

Ok Paul. How about a nice new law. Congress makes a law that in time of war actions anyone that holds a gun and spouts "kill the infidels" can be legally killed by those that capture the MF.
Think of it like a new exception - Shouting fire in the global theater.

[Computer Hobbyist]

bob

Your scary.

CH

[Toaster]

Howdy folks,
To some extent, I believe fully what Paul V. mandates.
However, this is a first for "The" United States of America.
We here in the USA have many staunch ally. The UK, Canada are umongst out top supporters. Capturing and holding indeffinately a wold crimminal is not a responsible way. Maybe we should turn him over to the Isreali, they KNOW how to deal with this kind of refuse.
Paul, I greatly respect your opinion and I have great respect for you.
However, America is like you suggest, an ideal, not a physical thing.
I tend to think the American populace and those of our allies a say-so as to the treatment of any offender of Sept.11.
We can fly over and kill and maim, our tanks can destroy anything before them on any continent, we can fight with the Saudi but we can't kill a few that deserve a horrible slow death?
Whats the diff? Where do you draw the line?
Is this a poitical issue that were the USA asked to "defend herself" we would have to meet with world approval?
We indeed need to find those responsible and those that "would" be responsible for any coming attacks either here or abroad.
The United States of America has the means and the methods to make terrorizem a "non-profitable and deadly" business. I trust many countries would rally to our aid as many have so far.
Each country has a "wanted" list of those wanted for numerous crimes.
A multinational "task force" could deal with these threats.
Sooooo......

Sieze Bin Ladens assets regardless of any consiquences that may follow.
Attempt to locate and transport to the associated country any known terrorist entity.

We the United States of America fought to give birth to our country, should we not fight to preserve it?

[Computer Hobbyist]

Toaster,

Has anybody said we can't defend ourselves? I don't think so. Has anybody said we can't hunt down and destroy the bad guys? I don't think so. This is America--we stand for something, including our Constitution and laws, and our ideals. If in the worst case we don't follow our laws, do we follow them in the best case? Why should we? I can see some polititian saying that the American who bombed Oklahoma City is no better than Bin Laden and doesn't deserve anything other than a bullet to the back of the head? I can then imagine some "cable news" personality saying that the guy who killed a family of six is no better than the guy who bombed Oklahoma City. Where would it end.

This debate has been sparked by the fear that a real trial of Bin Laden would become another OJ trial. I am a professional in this area, trust me when I tell you that the Federal Courts and Federal Judges (the same ones who tried Timothy McVey) are not the same as California State Courts and California State Judges. Judge Ito wouldn't be trying the case. Admit it, the McVey trial was not the same as the OJ trial. It was full and fair but the guy got what he deserved.

The most persuasive reason for a military tribunal I have heard is that civilian jurors, and their families, would need to be guarded for years to avoid reprisals by Bin Laden's allies.

A military tribunal properly established can provide solid due process. In a properly structured military tribunal, real evidence would have to be produced. Real defenses can and should be encouraged, and if appropriate, up held. Except for one Japanese General who was railroaded by McArthur, the trials after WWII were fair and full. There were even some defendants who were not convicted of capital crimes, and a few who were not convicted at all. Justice was upheld but the really bad guys got what they had coming.

We provide Bin Laden rights not to protect Bin Laden, but to protect ourselves. We can never forget that simple truth. If we do, Bin Laden is right, America is fragile and its end is near. If we remember what we are fighting for, nothing can defeat us.

Sorry if I appear passionate, but I am truly frightened by the ease with which people who should know better are willing to give up the fundamental rights this country is founded upon in the name of simple revenge.

CH

[freptide]

I wish people could think for themselves on whats going on and use there
God given reasoning abilities. Where is the proof aside from faked Bin Laden tapes? Is there really proof that this guy masterminded the whole thing?
What about the Saudi government? Na they couldn't have funded the Attackers.
I like how George W calls them Evil ones, when his family were doing buisiness with the Bin laden family prior to the attack. The ones that were in country
got a nice ride out in a 727. Something stinks about this whole story.
There is alot of money to be made in opium and oil and corporate deals.



http://www.americanfreedomnews.com

[highrisemech]

The only one that is getting fooled is you if you believe Bin Laden was not behind this. Oh the tape is real and so were the terrorists working for Bin Laden that hijacked those planes. Also and believe me Bin laden will be hunted down and prosecuted either military or civil or by the UN. I can't see how anyone could believe that this guy was not behind this. All roads lead to him right down to the money that financed this.

[Toaster]

Howdy folks,
I am fully for "due process". Don't get me wrong as my wording was poorly set forth. What I am against is the forth coming "red tape" dealing with the infidels.
For someone to say "In gods name we kill" annoys me to no end.
I find religion to be nothing more then practiced hypocrocy with little more then fable in support. That is what really burns my butt in the worst way imaginable.
So many claim "For the sake of god" *or* "I was asked of god" or such likes.
If this god is this blood thirsty, keep 'em.
If not such a blood thirst god, time to prove thyself.
I hold more credence in Zeus, Athena and other "gods" that mankind seeked to worship. Todays churches and their belief are nothing more then a floor show.
If I want a "show", I'll go to a show.