Argh! Parents vs. GTA: SA

[BustaRomeo]

OK, we know that the war between violent games and parents will go on forever, and I never thought too much of it, but to experience it myself I found it really annoying.

My mother went off to the shops yesterday and I asked her to check the prices on GTA: SA for me (yes, I know, I haven't got it yet, poor me) and she came back in a state. All she did was ask the guy at the counter what the price was and he starts off by asking how old I am (16) and this 20-something guy goes off rambling about the fact that "this is the most violent and cruel game in the series. There's more swearing, more blood, more everything" And topped it off by saying it was a no-18 game. She comes back horrified at the thought that I found the game even faguely appealing.

Then they start telling me that violence in games promotes violent children. Aaaah! We've heard this way too many times before. She says that she can already see it happening to me. I wonder if she can tell the difference between a game affecting my behaviour, or growth. Either way I find their debate pointless. Obviously if you're young and you buy GTA you'll get affected somehow if you don't have a guideline to what is right and wrong. Hell, I wasn't allowed to watch wrestling as a youngster, or Power Rangers, and my parents don't favour the idea of me watching them now as a 16-year old. I know the line between reality and entertainment, and it's not like I buy the game for the violent aspect. GTA is not all about violence, can I say that? Personally I want to buy SA because of the huge map, minigames, and just about everything. I don't favour violence, it's not like "Sweet! The guy's hand just got cut off!" I don't seek the violent parts of a game, I seek the enjoyable part of the game.

So my question is this, should I be allowed to get this game, and is this behind-the-counter guy's word true? I'm sure that when you cram everything that is bad about the game into one sentence it sounds terrible.

Also, the first thing that got my parents on this topic was this very article . I wasn't allowed to buy Vice City, but I got it anyway after a while and they don't complain. The article makes the game seem terrible. And where's this scene where a woman is kicked to death that they talk about? You see? They make the game seem so bad before we buy, so that we don't get the chance to buy it. I get the game, and it isn't even vaguely this violent, and it's up to you to play the game violently, or allow it to affect your behaviour.

[Hi Ho]

I know violence in games does not affect me. Maybe a select few with mental problems but for most people it's just a game. Personally, I don't even like GTA. I played it once and I didn't like it at all. I like shooters but GTA is just too violent for me. Some parents are overprotective but when it comes to GTA I'd say many of their points are valid.

[roomwithamoose]

I completely understand what you're parents are saying, and I understand their viewpoint. At the same time, I completely understand what you are saying. GTA: SA is much different than the previous games. It has a HUGE map, millions of odd jobs and mission, but above all, it is very realistic. What makes it realistic is home the storyline. It takes place in San Andreas (California) in the early 90's, and if you've ever seen "Boys In the Hood", that's what you'll get. It's the first game in the series with cursing, and I mean excessive cursing. If I didn't already curse a lot (which I probably shouldn't anyway), I would be offended. I don't play it around my younger cousins, although I did play GTA: VC and 3 with them in the room.

You sound like you were raised similar to the way I was. I have always had a good perception of reality and fantasy. I've never once thought "Hey, there's a cop, lets go start a chase and see how long I can last before the army comes!!" I think it is the parents responsibility to provide children with these skills, which certainly involves different limitations at different ages.

I guess I'm just saying that being a minor, it is up to your parents what happens in their house. Until you're 18 and out of their house, you have to do what they ask you. They are only trying to protect you and have your best intrests in their minds, so you'll have to accept it and respect them. You only have 2 years left, and by then the next GTA will be out on PS3. Just hang in there, before you know it you'll be done with high school and on your own. Enjoy the lack of responsibility, that is WAY better than any video game!

[Nuclear Krusader]

I admire your mother and I think she's doing a great job as a parent.

I know I am most likely gonna be flamed for my what I am gonna say but I care not. I simply cannot fathom why does this terrible game appeal to people. I fail to understand why people loves a game where the player gets to break the law in every aspect and get away with it. I would NEVER allow in my house my children playing a game where they can pimp, and I would NEVER EVER buy them a game that glorifies bestiality, crime, and all those other low conditions/emotions of the human nature that have caused humanity so much grief.

Kudos for your mom and for the clerk at the computer store, as many other clerks would care more about selling than into whose hands and mind the sold product is gonna end up.

[tigstah]

i agree with your mom.
for me a teenager playing gta is no worse than a father taking his son into the woods with a loaded rifle and teaching him to kill deer.
killzone, halo, unreal tournament, americas army, socom....they all have the same baseline....to kill. so gta gets an unfair bad rap.

[Tin]

i grew up playing mortal kombat, street fighter, doom, wolfenstein....watching gory R movies with lots of foul language etc. my parents knew that i knew right from wrong, and that games and movies were anything but reality. if parents would stop pawning off their responsibilities to the TV and the teachers...maybe we would have a few "normal" kids left.

[Stryker]

I think protecting a teenager from ever seeing anything like this is not as important as actually teaching them the boundaries and limitations of fantasy vs. reality. Video games have been branded as violent and negatively influencial, but you can change the input on your TV and switch over to cable and watch people in REAL LIFE being killed, maimed, beat up and just about anything else.

The point of my little rant...?
Teach children boundaries and judgement, don't shelter them and force them to draw their own conclusions.

All that said, I do think that video games are going a little too far with violence and foul language. There are some out there that I would never want children exposed to.

[HyperTF]

Yeah, well I grew up with all the violent games too, and as far as I know I grew up 'normal' but as for some of the newer titles which go just that one step further I would also get a bit twitchy watching any young person play them, especially children, and especially mine. Understandable for parents to have concerns and typically I would say stick to the ratings supplied with game titles as minimum standard, then general parenting ratings apply from there.
In Australia GTA3 was modified in code to prevent the ability to pick up and mistreat prostitutes because it was deemed to be too controversial and over the top. Though often I believe that games like GTA3 and SA, Doom3 and all the violent top namers are probably only really suitable for big kids (like me ha ha) anyway.
Parents should be aware of what content their kids are exposed to as much as practicable, especially on the net...this is responsible parenting, although they will never really know everything, showing a general interest is a good way to start.
Jeez I remember buying Kingpin - Life of Crime and having to play it when I was sure that no one was around cos that, for it's day was...waaah, a bit hot!

[BustaRomeo]

I play violent games often in the presense of my parents. Hell, my mom was the one who bought me GTA3 on the PS2. They had a bit of row bout Vice City when they saw the mentioned article, but I play it now and they aren't phased. Is the game seriously as bad as the guy said, word for word? Is it much worse than Vice City? Unfortunately I have been desensitized to strong language and the like, I mean, my mom will use it occasionally. Being 16 I've watched my fair share of movies that are, in my view, much worse than this game seems.

[Strider]

I think it's good that games like GTA:SA have a rating, for it gives parents some information and more importantly control if their children will be allowed to play these kinds of games. However, I don't understand people who want these games pulled from stores and blame them for the real violence. It's not the games, but the social climate that the person who commits violence such as bad parenting, social status (poor in a bad area), mental illness - just to name a few. While yea violent video games could be a small factor, it's not the whole factor and if it was the case then there would be more deaths resulting from watching Road Runner cartoons.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Originally Posted by BustaRomeo Unfortunately I have been desensitized to strong language and the like, I mean, my mom will use it occasionally.

This is exactly the consequence of those games and what responsible parents are trying to prevent.

When a person grows too used to strong language, violence and the like, that they no longer care anent them or even see them as the norm, then society has a problem.

[Jaggannath]

Originally Posted by Stryker I think protecting a teenager from ever seeing anything like this is not as important as actually teaching them the boundaries and limitations of fantasy vs. reality.

I totally agree with this viewpoint... the problem isn't that kids play violent games, it's that parents want a computer game that can bring a child up for them perfectly.

I think parents should decide what games their kids play, but also give them a little credit for having a brain and the ability to differentiate between right and wrong, reality and dreams. Obviously, I feel that kids under the age of about 14-15 will struggle to deal with the cursing, killing etc. in SA without having an adverse impact on their belief of what is cool, and the rating is there to keep it out of their hands IMO. However, if a game is rated MA18+, I feel that a mature 16 y.o. can play this game if:
1- Their parents know they have it; and,
2 - their parents have a good idea of it's content, so they know what he is doing.

I understand Nuke's viewpoint, and respect it as his own opinion, however I feel that the desensitising of people to cursing etc. is more a reflection on the way society (and parents) are dodging responsibility, and not on video games. If you raise your kids to not curse, and to generally be good citizens Nuke, then bully for you, I'm right behind you.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Ya, Jagganath, that's my point exactly. I am not from the "blame the games and media for everything" bunch, and I strongly believe that education relies heavily on the parents. That's why I don't like the notion of both parents working full time and leaving the kids to be educated by the child care/TV/computer/neighbour/etc. I also strongly believe in the parents enforcing discipline in the home and not taking the "be a friend to your kids" stance and never disciplining them because they may get a trauma. Both my parents are teachers and they used to complain all the time that so many parents take their children to school and expect the teacher to educate them fully, evading that responsibility themselves. As my parents state: it is the job of the parents to educate their children, the teacher's responsibility is just to reinforce the good values that were learnt at home.

That is why I support BustaRomeo's mom stance, as she is taking an active part in the education process, by being concerned anent what stuff is being poured into her son's mind, rather than just handing him the money or the credit card number so he can go and get the game himself.

[bigandy]

I also (somewhat) support the stance of your mother as well as Nuke. Reason being that I was brought up by parents, not the idiot box like so many kids are today. I was taught values and morals by my parents, rather than watching cartoons all day long. And if my parents didn't feel that something was appropriate for a young child to view, then I wasn't allowed to view it. I can remember wanting to see the South Park movie when it came out (1999), but my mother wouldn't let me because she didn't feel the material in the movie was something a 12 year old should see. Having seen the movie now years later, I have to say I agree. So I can definitely see where she is coming from.

But many parents who take the time to teach their children values have a fairly accurate gauge of their children, and know whether or not they can play a game like GTA and not take it as reality, but simply for what it is, a video game. My parents are fairly confident in my judgement, and know that I will tend to make the "right" decision. And if I do something foolish, I'm in big trouble.

The bottom line however is that this isn't just some lady telling you not to play the game. This is your mother. And whether we like it or not, sometimes you just have to do what your parents tell you to do.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Word that, Gran Andy.

I would just change "sometimes" to 99.99% of the time. He who obeys is never wrong.

[Stryker]

Let me just say that it is so good to see people are still of these opinions in the world today. Through all the garbage that we hear about, it's good to know that there are still people who believe in good ol' family values! Everything may seem to make perfect sense to you right now as a 16 year old, but in a few years you will realize that parents DO know best and they are only looking out for you. They are not trying to keep you from buying something you will enjoy, they are protecting you from something they know will not have any real positive influence on your life.

The old saying "... if I knew then what I know now..." is more true now than ever.