Hardware MPEG-2 decoder

[RJ]

Hello,

I've a few questions about hardware mpeg-2 decoding (for dvds).

1. The ATI graphic cards have DVD-support. Does that mean that ATI cards have a real hardware MPEG-2 decoder - like the Hollywood+ card ? Or is it another thing. If it is, what's it ?

2. What about other graphic cards, like the GeForce line (1, 2 and the new 3) ? I have a GeForce 2 GTS, but can't use "hardware decoding", so I assume it doesn't have one. But they also claim to have some DVD-support. What exactly does it do ?

3. When I buy a decoder card, let's say the hollywood+, would I have to connect my monitor to the decoder card or can I leave it on my graphics card ?

4. I only have one free PCI slot, and that is PCI 1. Now the decoder card has something to do with graphics, and when the monitor is connected to the decoder I still can see my normal desktop etc. So it seems that the have very much in common. So would it be a problem for the two to share the IRQ ? (graphics card: AGP, decoder card: PCI1)

Thanks in advance,

RJ

[Floppyman]

Hi RJ,

Take a look:

http://www.atitech.com/na/pages/prod.../radeon64_ddr/

I've wondering too whether to buy a separate decoder or not, but it seems that indeed my 64mb Radeon has hardware DVD decoding (from the ATI site):

Industry Best DVD Playback

Process full-frame rate, full-screen DVD or MPEG-2 video
Hardware DVD saves the expense of buying a separate MPEG-2/DVD decoder card
Integrated IDCT and motion compensation allows for DVD decoding with minimum CPU usage
HDTV ready

Video Capture and TV/VCR-output support (Optional features)

Radeon™ uses ATI’s RAGE THEATRE™ companion chip for high quality video encoding and decoding.
Capture MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 full motion video at 720x480 30 fps resolution
Grab still images from VCRs or camcorders with S-Video or composite input
Use video-out to connect your PC to TV or VCR for recording
Create and edit professional-looking home videos using MPEG-2 video capture. Transfer them to CD and to watch on your DVD player. (Ulead Video Studio software required)

Hope this answers at least one of your questions.

Also I have question: Would it make sense to still buy a separate decoder for better quality or would the Radeon be good enough? Thanks!

[redalert]

Just this morning I hooked up the Real Magic Hollywood Plus up to my T.V. and I can say it was worth the $55 bucks. I wanted to watch DVD movies on my T.V. and since I bought the ATI without the TV out it was cheaper than buying another card. The playback is smooth and very good. When I first bought the ATI and tested the DVD playback, it was choppy with ocassional glitches. Overclocking made it smooth but still the glitches were there(white flickering on Three Stooges DVD). The hardware decoder deffinetely made a difference. {Jesus I sound like an Infomercial}. Definitely worth checking out though.

[HAL9000]

The way I understand it (direct from ATI when I made enquiries about buying the AIW Radeon), the Radeon cards have hardware DVD decoding. The Rage 128 Pro cards have hardware "assisted" decoding. The hardware assisted models work with the software decoders to create near hardware decoding. Going by this, the Radeon cards don't need a hardware decoder.

WinME does have a DVD player built in, it just doesn't show in the start menu anywhere. From the Run command, type DVDPLAY to access it. If you do not have a hardware decoder, it will report an error. I have received this error with Rage 128 pro cards, but not Radeon cards.

[Floppyman]

redalert,

Which ATI card do you have? I have heard the DVD playback on the Radeon is excellent, but if that's not true I might a separate decoder. I guess then I can hook my Radeon which has videoout up to a TV and play DVD's right? Thanks again.

Also Hal, how's DVD playback on your AIW Radeon quality wise, as good as a separate hardware decoder?

[HAL9000]

Excellent. Totally smooth. I temporarily installed a DVD drive a while back just to try it out, and I couldn't notice any dropped frames and the quality of the picture was excellent. Gonna actually have to buy a DVD one of these days.

[Floppyman]

Cool, thanks Hal, that's what I read, looks like I won't bother with a separate decoder card then, I'll save the pci slot and spend the $ on a DVD movie to try out instead...

[RJ]

Thanks for your replies.

Floppyman, which DVD software do you have ? If it's PowerDVD, what happens if you enable "Use the hardware decoder" ?
When I do this, PowerDVD quits with an error message when trying to play a DVD. So if the Radeon really has a full hardware decoder, it should work. If you don't have PowerDVD you can download the trial version and test it.

Thanks for the tip, HAL9000, I'll try it. I've seen this DVD player on a friend's (Helper, fairly new to the forums) laptop with WinME. So maybe the laptop has hardware decoder ? I'll have to ask him tomorrow.

This Motion Compensation I've read about, what is it ? And the GeForce cards (esp. the GeForce 2 GTS), do they have "hardware assisting" decoding or nothing (I know they claim to have DVD support, but I don't know how much and what exactly).

Nevertheless, the question with IRQ-sharing is important to me, since it's my last free PCI slot, and I'd rather not buy a new mainboard. Oh I with the BE-6 II also could have 6 PCI slots instead of 5 and one blank PCI area. . . what a waste !

And the connections ? I mean, it doesn't really matter whether I have to plug in the TV to the graphics card (my card has TV-out) or to the decoder card, but mostly I'll watch them on my monitor. And does it have to be plugged in to the decoder card ? I mean, if connected to the decoder card I can see the normal desktop, so when plugged into te graphics card I should see the hardware decoded video, shouldn't I ?
The thing is, well, I have a flatscreen, you know, and it is also with DVI. The graphics card is with DVI, too, only thing that is missing is the cable. I still want it, but it's hard to find. But when I get it, I'd rather not using the VGA cable only for DVDs. Therefore the question. Otherwise, it wouldn't matter.

RJ

[Floppyman]

RJ,

Don't use any software at the present, I don't even have a DVD-Rom at this point...when I get one I'll probably use the software that came with the Radeon though, I'm pretty sure it included a DVD player.

[RJ]

Ah, I see.
Yes, I also am very very sure there is a dvd software with the radeon. With my GeForce 2 GTS I got PowerDVD 2.5, and when I bought my DVD drive there was PowerDVD 2.55. Oh well, two nearly same programs

So in your case, without even having a dvd drive, I wouldn't consider of buying a hardware decoder. At first the dvd drive, and then view a dvd. If it's not optimal: It's always possible to add a decoder card later, but when buying decoder card before, and then notice that it won't be necessary (in your case because the radeon has one), then it was a pretty unnecessary buy.

RJ

[Floppyman]

Yep, the way it sounds the Radeon has excellent DVD playback so I probably won't have to buy one, unless of course the performance is not acceptable, then I might buy a decoder card.

[redalert]

I don't know but when I played a DVD on my ATI Radeon 32DDR I noticed the performance and especially picture quality were slightly lower than with the decoder. Especially when the card was running at default core memory speeds, The playback was somewhat choppy. Once I oc'd it though it ran smoothly but the quality wasn't as perfect as with the decoder. That was my observation.

[RJ]

redalert, was the "Use hardware decoding" option of your dvd software enabled before you bought the decoder ? And do you use the same software now or another one ? Maybe you forgot to enable the hardware decoding, and setup of your hardware decoder card did this for you. Just a thought.

RJ

[redalert]

I don't even know if the Ati DVD software has that option. It's weird though, yesterday I unplugged the Decoder and ran the same DVD with the ATI software and there was no hit in performance! I know for a fact that when I first built this comp and played my 3 Stooges DVD, the playback was choppy and there were glitches on the screen. I have been tweaking the system since though and upon using the ATI DVD software a message comes up saying "DVD playback is contingent upon the speed and power of the system." In other words if you have a fairly fast comp you can go without the Holywood Decoder. I just bought it cause I wanted the TV out which my Radeon lacks.